The Universe is Mental, God is the All in Everything

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Nothin

I can't even attempt to explain dark energies or matter.

That's well above my pay grade, ken or understanding, and as you are probably aware the theory is a work in progress.

It's our best attempt to explain the expansion of the universe through with the limited information and tools at our disposal.

So we are agreed, that from our point-of-view: it's merely a belief, right?

How could a common person come to know about "...the expansion of the universe... ", without engaging beliefs?

a reply to: andy06shake

Sounds rather alarming really, invisible you say, so how do you know he is Jesus and what does he say?

A couple of reasons. I only pray to God/Jesus and ask for his guidance. He has a habit of telling me the same things he kept telling the Jews over and over again. Apparently, we need constant reminding. Mostly he reminds me that he's always with me and to stop doubting and fretting, as he'll take care of everything... and He does! Occasionally, he'll send me a dream of a future event to prepare for (usually having to do with family members). He reminds me that no one is perfect and why I should love them anyway.

It doesn't even have to be anything profound. I pray to God for everything. I got a flat tire out in the middle of nowhere once and asked God to send someone to change it for me. He immediately sent me a preacher to change it. The preacher told me where to go to get a new tire. Along the way, I drove under a bridge where someone had spray painted "Jesus Saves" across it. When I got to the place to get a new tire, I had to go to the restroom, where a picture of Jesus was hanging above the toilet. That was a new one I hadn't seen before!

a reply to: Nothin

Belief based on observation of rather a few other factors though like the observable motions of the galaxies cant be explained by the laws of Newtonian physics alone.

After all that extra mass must be somewhere, else due to the rotational speed of the stars on the galaxies rim, they would fly away if the only thing holding them in place were visible matter. Need about six times the mass if memory serves.

End of the day through science is simply our best guess based on the data and information we have available.

a reply to: Deetermined

Well like i said earlier on if it does what is says on the tin for you personally, then don't let anyone tell you any different.

But understand that some people require a different sort of proof of a more tangible nature.

Look at it this way if indeed the universe is infinite by nature, somewhere at some point, God does indeed exist, but then again so does everything else, and i do mean everything, infinity being the beast she seems to be.

originally posted by: Deetermined
...It doesn't even have to be anything profound. I pray to God for everything. I got a flat tire out in the middle of nowhere once and asked God to send someone to change it for me. He immediately sent me a preacher to change it. The preacher told me where to go to get a new tire. Along the way, I drove under a bridge where someone had spray painted "Jesus Saves" across it. When I got to the place to get a new tire, I had to go to the restroom, where a picture of Jesus was hanging above the toilet. That was a new one I hadn't seen before!...

Have you heard of confirmation bias?

Heard a story like that before:
Bob Gullible was driving down the road, when a feeling of hunger arose out of nowhere.
There was a thought: 'maybe I should look for something to eat'.
Just then, as if a miracle occured, out of nowhere, appeared a big billboard with a picture of a huge bowl of Spaghetti on it. "Eat at Mario's House of Spaghetti. Five miles ahead".
"Wow" thought Bob, "how could that possibly be a coincidence? It just can't?"

He kept thinking about this, as he drove down the road, until, out of nowhere, another sign appeared:
"Eat at Mario's House of Spaghetti. Just two miles ahead"
What!!! Total mind blow!!! Bob thought he should follow-up on this, and so was not as astonished when he came upon
a big shiny building, and written in front was: "Welcome to Mario's House of Spaghetti."


On the door was another sign: "Mario's House of Spaghetti. We've been expecting you. Come in."
Bob staggered semi-unconsciously into the doorway. He just couldn't believe this was happening to him.
Inside, he walked to the counter, where he could see a man in the kitchen. The man turned around, and he was wearing a big smile, and an apron with: "Mario's" written on it.
Above the counter was a menu sign: "Mario's House of Spaghetti. Anyway you want, we'll do it for you." With picture of a huge bowl of Spaghetti beside it.

Bob looked down the counter, and saw a man there, eating a bowl of Spaghetti.
And the man said: Try the Spaghetti. You'll love it".

Mario wondered why this new guy was crying, as he ordered the Mario's House of Spaghetti Special, but he thought it best not to pry.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Nothin
...
End of the day through science is simply our best guess based on the data and information we have available.

It does seem like a 'best guess", to an unknowing observer.

How could these concepts be proven to be true, to a casual observer?

What if one doesn't believe?

a reply to: Nothin

Mathematics might help the "casual observer" understand.

I presume what you mean is related to the quantum theory though?

If that's what you are getting at, its hard to answer adequately because there will be a different answer for different interpretations of the quantum theory.

There isn't really an accurate answer is there?

a reply to: toysforadults

Hmm, in my spiritual journey I've learned that the universe is definitely of mind in origin but I would not say the universe is the mind. I'd put it differently, I think the universe is a thought within the divine mind.

I read A Course In Miracles and have been studying it for about 6 years now.

Into eternity, where all is one, there crept a tiny, mad idea, at which the Son of God remembered not to laugh.
[T-27.VIII.6:2-3]

Within the course it speaks of the universe as a thought within the divine mind.
The universe being the temporal distorted thought of separation from God and each other.
The divine mind being the eternal unified reality.

Just thought I'd share that, food for thought.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Nothin

Mathematics might help the "casual observer" understand.

I presume what you mean is related to the quantum theory though?

If that's what you are getting at, its hard to answer adequately because there will be a different answer for different interpretations of the quantum theory.

There isn't really an accurate answer is there?

Not quantum theory in particular, but the collective works of big-science, that are not evident to regular folks.

We can observe apparently working science, like this computer, cable-TV, an air-conditioning unit, etc...
But that doesn't mean that we 'know' how it works.
All we know, is that it works when we turn it on. This continues until one day it just stops working.

So we trust that the science of these things is solid, even if we don't get all of the details.
We observe it apparently working, so that is enough for some to believe anything else science says or does, would also be accurate?

So how do we get from observably working science, to believing in the BBT, and a supposedly expanding universe?
Does one not need to make a leap-of-faith, and believe in the fellows with shiny lab-coats, fancy slide-rulers, and shirts with pocket-protectors full of snazzy pens?

Are these fellows perfect? Absolutely pure, true, honest, and within integrity?
Or are they fallible humans, just like us?
Possibly subject to influences of many varieties?

How do we bring this back towards the OP?

What is real to any observer, and what is concept/belief/idea/mind?

a reply to: Hyperspacial

originally posted by: Hyperspacial
Into eternity, where all is one, there crept a tiny, mad idea, at which the Son of God remembered not to laugh.
[T-27.VIII.6:2-3]

Within the course it speaks of the universe as a thought within the divine mind.
The universe being the temporal distorted thought of separation from God and each other.
The divine mind being the eternal unified reality.

Beautiful.
Thank you so much for sharing.

a reply to: Nothin

I have a better story about how stubborn, blind, and ignorant some people can be about how God works...

A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help.

Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, "Jump in, I can save you."

The stranded fellow shouted back, "No, it's OK, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me."

So the rowboat went on.

Then a motorboat came by. "The fellow in the motorboat shouted, "Jump in, I can save you."

To this the stranded man said, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."

So the motorboat went on.

Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, "Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety."

To this the stranded man again replied, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."

So the helicopter reluctantly flew away.

Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, "I had faith in you but you didn't save me, you let me drown. I don't understand why!"

To this God replied, "I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"

truthbook.com...

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Into eternity, where all is one, there crept a tiny, mad idea, at which the Son of God remembered not to laugh.
[T-27.VIII.6:2-3]

Within the course it speaks of the universe as a thought within the divine mind.
The universe being the temporal distorted thought of separation from God and each other.
The divine mind being the eternal unified reality.

Our minds are not divine, but Jesus can put a divine thought into your mind to lead you to eternity, but we're not living in it yet. If your mind was divine, you'd be perfect, but you're not.

a reply to: Nothin

Its space-time that's expanding through, its an intrinsic expansion where the scale of space itself changes.

The universe does not expand into anything and does not require space to exist outside it.

So to a "Casual Observer" it appears that space is expanding and all but the nearest galaxies are receding into the distance.

What seems real to anyone is directly linked to there perspective, and down at the bottom of our gravity well ours is so very, very, limited.

a reply to: Deetermined

There is not much perfect about our Earth through, the fact is the little imperfections and idiosyncrasies are what make our lives of interest.

If we are not living the what are we doing?

And whats a divine thought, nevermind the difference from normal thoughts, can you give an example?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Nothin

Its space-time that's expanding through, its an intrinsic expansion where the scale of space itself changes.

Can you actually see 'space time expanding? Or is it a belief?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

If you take a look out at the Universe, in every direction you look, you see objects rushing away from you, what would you conclude?

General Relativity lays out the relationship between space-time on one hand, and matter and energy on the other.

Matter and energy tell space-time how to curve, space-time tells matter how to move.

We can see the red shift which occurs whenever a light source move away from us, the observer, put it that way.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Itisnowagain

If you take a look out at the Universe, in every direction you look, you see objects rushing away from you, what would you conclude?

And you have actually done that have you?

General Relativity lays out the relationship between space-time on one hand, and matter and energy on the other.

Matter and energy tell space-time how to curve, space-time tells matter how to move.

We can see the red shift which occurs whenever a light source move away from us, the observer, put it that way.

All of what you have stated is from books and knowledge.......it has been believed.
Those dots of light maybe simply dots of light in the night sky...that's how they appear if there is no belief.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Yes I've looked at the sky on many occasions.

Of course what i have statted is from books and knowledge, where else would i manage to glean the information?

And the Earth might be flat, but she's not, she's an oblate spheroid as science has clearly proven.

So what are these dots of light if not other stars? LoL

And if they are not stars then what is our Sun?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Yes I've looked at the sky on many occasions.

Can you actually see objects rushing away?

Of course what i have statted is from books and knowledge, where else would i manage to glean the information?

And the Earth might be flat, but she's not, she's an oblate spheroid as science has clearly proven. So what are these dots of light if not other stars? LoL

I am not saying that the Earth is flat.
I am saying that; as Nothin said................it takes a leap of faith, as in it has to be believed.....it is not fact.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I can see the moon and other planets change position in the sky, as well can you.

That's not a leap of faith that's direct observation.

No faith required when you have facts and repeatable evidence available, that's science not religion, and please don't try and tell me they are the same thing because there are a multitude of difference which i have already outlined in previous posts.

Believe based on factual evidence is not the same as a leap of faith, simply because you know what you are jumping into to a degree.