US Democracy voting results no longer valid what now? Children hack outcome in FL It took 10 mins

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
So, while this is a neat exercise for hackers, it in no way indicates that vote totals are being changed in the real world for the official results,

This is actually old news that dates back to the 2000 election. It has went under-reported and almost no comments here on ATS. I gave up years ago attempting to call attention to this huge problem with US democracy.
HBO did a documentary 14 years ago;

For more information see Beverly Harris' web site that originates from 2003, Balck Box Voting.org

Here is an old video of a computer programmer testifying in the Senate;

And I just found a 60 Minutes special linked here, watching it now as I put this post together,
CBS

I'm sure there is a lot more information out regarding this yet I gave up years ago. I decided for the sake of my sanity I would let it go. While many are arguing over voter ID laws for a problem, voter impersonation, that has been proven time and again to be relatively insignificant this very real and quite scary problem goes unchallenged. I never could understand the logic of it, or lack thereof.

After viewing some of this material tell me if there is any indication "that vote totals are being changed in the real world for the official results".

a reply to: Devino

To be fair, the thread is about this particular exercise, not the history of possible electronic vote hacking in the past.

That said, I'll look into this stuff, but watching the testimony video, it's sounds plausible, but offers no tangible evidence that I can find after researching the witness and testimony. It doesn't help things that Mr. Curtis then went on six years later and used this issue about which he testified to run against and defeat Mr. Feeney.

I spent many days in the past as a paralegal sitting in on interviews with witnesses and listening to witness testimony in trials, and just because someone is sworn to tell the truth doesn't mean that they are.

Like I said, though, I'll look a little more into this later.

So this being factual thruout the US our democracy is just an illusion perpetuated by a complacent population refusing to accept & acknowledge that it needs to be repaired and fixed or completely overhauled to secure proper outcomes?

Has every one gone mad or is it just me ??

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: Devino

To be fair, the thread is about this particular exercise, not the history of possible electronic vote hacking in the past.

Sure, I agree. However, potential precedence of such behavior does paint a more incriminating picture I would think.

That said, I'll look into this stuff, but watching the testimony video, it's sounds plausible, but offers no tangible evidence that I can find after researching the witness and testimony. It doesn't help things that Mr. Curtis then went on six years later and used this issue about which he testified to run against and defeat Mr. Feeney.

I spent many days in the past as a paralegal sitting in on interviews with witnesses and listening to witness testimony in trials, and just because someone is sworn to tell the truth doesn't mean that they are.

Like I said, though, I'll look a little more into this later.

I appreciate that. Perhaps you'll find that all of this is BS and our democracy is safe and intact, wouldn't that be something!

Hahahaha
A test voting machine at DEFCON was hacked by a young person.(bet he or she was hired by the CIA)
Yet , folks getting in an uproar .
Has any of the folks here ever been to DEFCON ?
Does anyone here even know what it is ?
I have . Going back to the day that it was held in a cabin , in the woods of N.W. Georgia.
Know how "Code Red" soda came about ? I do.
Yes , I still remember "Woz"
Wow.
Rampant ignorance.

THERE IS NO ONLINE VOTING ANY WHERE IN THE COUNTRY. What hackers can change is the websites that report the results. That doesn't change the results it would only mess up the networks tracking results. And in the article itself they yell you its impossible to change actual votes.

This has nothing to do with changing anything and more into showing you how vulnerable HTML can be if you don't know what your doing. If you take anything from this it should be pay someone who knows how to use HTML to make a website.

Your mistaken. This is what google came back with.....

Do any states allow online voting?
Twenty-one states + DC allow some voters to return ballots via email or fax: Colorado, Delaware, District of Columbia, Hawaii, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oregon, South Carolina, Utah, Washington and West Virginia.

Hmmm it seems there is online voting in quiet a few states ...... 21 States.

a reply to: TheJesuit

Twenty-one states + DC allow some voters to return ballots via email or fax

That is not being "online"

Blockchain

originally posted by: Devino
Sure, I agree. However, potential precedence of such behavior does paint a more incriminating picture I would think.

Depends on how valid the potential precendence is, but comparing digital voting in 2000 to digital voting in 2018 is quite a bit different, to say the least, so while there is ALWAYS the possibility that hacking can occur, I still have yet to see solid evidence of it.

And I don't care how good a hacker is, from what I understand from people who deal with internet security for a living, a hacker will always leave evidence of their actions behind. The only issue then become, how good are the people monitoring for the hacker activity and will they find it...

I appreciate that. Perhaps you'll find that all of this is BS and our democracy is safe and intact, wouldn't that be something!

Well, to be completely fair, we don't have a democracy, but I get what you mean (the democratic voting process).

Our government is definitely safe and in tact, although it's gone astray form the original design, for sure. I'll do a little more digging into this, because I didn't find much in the short time that I put into it yesterday concerning the validity of Mr. Curtis' testimony. In instances like this, sworn testimony is cool and all, but I need hard evidence for proof of the claims before I just take a guy's word for it (especially when he netted political gains from his claims).

Another point to reiterate, though: Voting is not done online--digital and online are not necessarily the same thing. Like others have noted, this hacking in this instance only altered the results reported to the public, but not the official vote tally from the machines themselves.

I’ve thought for a long time now that voting shouldn’t be anonymous. There should be a website you can go to to confirm your vote is correct.

a reply to: Guiltyguitarist

I agree on principle, but adding websites into the mix opens it up for the exact type of thing that these kids were able to accomplish, so there would still be a question as to whether or not what you are seeing is actually what is being counted by the official machines.

At the very least, you should be able to opt for a printed "voting receipt," that prints out your official voting results before you leave the voting station. Of course, not all places do electronic voting, so that would be hard to do in many cases.

originally posted by: TheJesuit
Your mistaken. This is what google came back with.....

Do any states allow online voting?
Twenty-one states + DC allow some voters to return ballots via email or fax: Colorado, Delaware, District of Columbia, Hawaii, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oregon, South Carolina, Utah, Washington and West Virginia.

Hmmm it seems there is online voting in quiet a few states ...... 21 States.

One way transmissions to a closed network that will manually look at said e mail or fax before adding it to the official counts. They arent stupid enough to allow outside hackers to change anything relevant. even DHS coudnt do anything on election night.

a reply to: SlapMonkey
I appreciate your perspective on this and you're right, evidence is needed before jumping to conclusions. I do not know if there is any proof that Diebold, or any other voting machine, have actually switched or altered votes yet there are many claims that this has happened. I do not have any faith in those companies nor their machines and I am amazed that so many states still use them in their elections.

The state of California settled a lawsuit with Diebold over these machines.
Attorney General Lockyer Announces $2.6 Million Settlement with Diebold in Electronic Voting Lawsuit

There was also a release of documents by a so called whistle-blower, Stephen Heller, who worked for the law firm representing Diebold, Jones Day.
Whistle-Blower or Thief in Diebold Case?

Stephen Heller claims to have given these documents to Bev Harris at BlackBoxVoting which she then gave to the California secretary of state and the Oakland tribune, which published some of them. I am not sure the impact that these leaked documents had, if any, on the state's case. I have been unable to find any link online to those documents or the article supposedly published in the Oakland tribune.

I'm sorry for this thread drift from the original topic but I feel that this pertains to the integrity of our democratic process. The ability to maliciously and conspicuously hack into web sites such as is claimed in the OP could go along way to undermine such trust.

Addition, vote tally discrepancy;

COLUMBUS, Ohio — An error with an electronic voting system gave President Bush 3,893 extra votes in suburban Columbus, elections officials said Friday.
Franklin County's unofficial results had Bush receiving 4,258 votes to Democrat John Kerry's 260 votes in a precinct in Gahanna. Records show only 638 voters cast ballots in that precinct.

Voting System Error Gives Bush Extra Votes in Ohio

a reply to: SlapMonkey
And because this is a conspiracy web site I might be remiss to not mention Athan Gibbs from Truvote. He was advocating for an electronic voting machine with a paper receipt that can verify or clear up any discrepancies. What a novel idea! His voting machine had a system he called "VVPAT, that's a voter verified paper audit trail".

The problem is Athan Gibbs died in a car accident back in March of 2004.
Voting Paper Trail Advocate Dies In 'Tragic Accident'

Where are these machines? Isn't this what people have been asking for?

Sorry for the videos. You strike me as the type that would rather read any information than watch someone narrate it on YouTube but I'm lazy and linking videos is easy.

So help me out; what exactly where these "replica" websites that where hacked?

Where they databases and dash boards that are actually used to take, store and count floarda election votes?

Or where they informational websites used to inform voters who is running for election and than the final results of those elections.

While the allarmiszum of the article would suggest the first; the descriptions of what was actually changed sounds more like the second.

Just saying my 16 year old can jail break an iPhone so can my 5 year old the younger they start the easier it is to see the code my older boy is beyond me and my younger one is the smartest one yet. I think the people that began writing codes never thought others would find a way to hack them. Anything a man can create that is unsolvable another man will solve in time.

a reply to: Devino

I appreciate the info--I watch and read. I'm just struggling for time to check everything out, but hopefully I'll find it soon.

originally posted by: DanDanDat
So help me out; what exactly where these "replica" websites that where hacked?

Where they databases and dash boards that are actually used to take, store and count floarda election votes?

Or where they informational websites used to inform voters who is running for election and than the final results of those elections.

While the allarmiszum of the article would suggest the first; the descriptions of what was actually changed sounds more like the second.

I seems like the latter of your two examples.

The Department further noted that the mock site was only used to publish preliminary, unofficial results and was not connected to vote counting equipment and thus couldn’t change actual election results. In response, Braun said that the group had been clear that the sites the children attempted to hack into were replica websites, not the real ones.

USA Today
This is about potentially creating chaos and undermining the public's confidence in our elections and voting systems. Is it working? How confident are you in our voting system? The point of all this is that there needs to be better security in these web sites.

“What's more disconcerting is that none of the guidelines for election security that have come out since 2016 say anything about what state and local election officials should do if the most vulnerable component of the voting infrastructure, their website, was hacked on Election Day,” he said.

It's as though these problems surface and little to nothing is done about it. Are we becoming more technical but less secure?

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: Devino

I appreciate the info--I watch and read. I'm just struggling for time to check everything out, but hopefully I'll find it soon.

You have inspired me to read a little further into the question of the security of our democratic process, maybe it's that honest looking face in your avatar. I love this country and the people who live in it, at least those that I have so far met. I would like nothing more than to see this process through, unimpeded. Let the people decide our fate with their vote.

What I have found doesn't look good and it has actually put me in an off mood over the last couple days. It seems unbelievable and is quite overwhelming in my opinion.
Black Box Voting;

Black Box Voting: “Any voting system in which the mechanism for recording
and/or tabulating the vote is hidden from the voter, and/or the mechanism
lacks a tangible record of the vote cast.”

A book written by Bev Harris can be found here for a free download.

Bev Harris has found several cases of documented vote miscounts made by such machines. She claims 56, many of which can be found in chapter 2 of her book;
Can We Trust These Machines

An overview of some of those claims can be found here;
How Computers Can Steal Your Vote

A more comprehensive list, that I just scanned over rather quickly, can be found here;
Election Fraud and Irregularities

I lack the time that such an important subject deserves and I desperately want all of this to not be true or at least the problems to have since been fixed. Most of this information predates 2004 so I wonder what has happened to all of these supposed discrepancies? Have the machines we use now been fixed or have they simple become better at hiding them? And the big question is why is this not mainstream news?

I agree with your statement in a previous post, "At the very least, you should be able to opt for a printed "voting receipt," that prints out your official voting results before you leave the voting station."
How is that going for us? Are there any states or counties that use electronic vote machines that give a receipt or have some kind of verifiable way to audit the counts? Or are we using the same kind of unverifiable voting machines that have been proven to be unreliable time and again in the past?

It gives me a little relief to rant a bit here least it ruin my weekend.