Soldier in Iraq gets "hate" mail from US school Kids

Originally posted by krotzkrotz

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Very nice line of BS there. How about some data? I do like the "Bush the Great" line though. I'll pass it along to Cheney for you.

But you left out Pol Pot and Stalin..better check that out..............see it you can rewrite your little rant there an work them in too.

You are the one who should review historical data. Both monsters you mentionned were not active in the middle east

And to my knowledge, St.Petersburg or Moscow are still standing as they were a hundred years ago. So while i would agree that Stalin killed more people in absolute numbers, Bush is the greater destroyer of civilizatory value (Mosques, archeological sites, Palaces, etc...). Communism and Neoconism have something in common even you will agree on : Both turn victim countries into paradises

So the "taliban" in afganistain bombing 2000 year old statues of Budda doesn't count. How about 4000 years of tomb raiders in eqypt including Napoleon.............gezz get a grib there man...........and yes he did bomb saddam palaces, built with money stolen from the iraqi people and oil-for-food.

Originally posted by DrHoracid
So the "taliban" in afganistain bombing 2000 year old statues of Budda doesn't count. How about 4000 years of tomb raiders in eqypt including Napoleon.............gezz get a grib there man...........and yes he did bomb saddam palaces, built with money stolen from the iraqi people and oil-for-food.

Your comparisons are ridiculous. The Taliban would have needed 10^69 years of Buddha bombing to equate the destructive power of the US air force in Iraq. And Napoleon is a saint compared to Bush.

Please, please, please tell me you're joking krotzkrotz. I still believe humans are intelligent beings, but man....if you're serious, that'll be another blow to my beliefs.

As far as the letters, I see alot here don't know anything about the military or know anyone in the military. There's a thing called morale. An army with good morale is much more effective. Recieving letters from home boosts morale. You look foward to them. Even if you're not in the army, being wrongfully accused and lied about is never a good feeling. They are over there risking their lives and to recieve letters like that....from kids!....you're an idiot if you think these letters don't have some effect or not that big of a deal. You all have no idea.

First off, although I am a veteran myself, I know that what the teacher did is in no way a crime; he may be a butt-head, but he's not a "traitor".

What annoys me is that the principal said "we would never censor what our students write", as if those elementary kids were reasoning adults (which, of course, they are not).

As someone who had the misfortune to teach a couple of years in an elementary school, I know that the teachers and administrators of the schools are charged, not with giving students license to write what they choose, but to educate and mold them. Sometimes censorship is needed, especially when you're dealing with kids who simply don't understand the basic concepts of right and wrong (or appropriate and inapproporiate, if you prefer).

Originally posted by krotzkrotz

Originally posted by DrHoracid
So the "taliban" in afganistain bombing 2000 year old statues of Budda doesn't count. How about 4000 years of tomb raiders in eqypt including Napoleon.............gezz get a grib there man...........and yes he did bomb saddam palaces, built with money stolen from the iraqi people and oil-for-food.

Your comparisons are ridiculous. The Taliban would have needed 10^69 years of Buddha bombing to equate the destructive power of the US air force in Iraq. And Napoleon is a saint compared to Bush.

Don't read much history do you. Napoleon is considered one of the "anti-christs" similar to hitler. Please provide some data, pictures something to back up your anti-bush BS. Not just a liberal playbook.

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
First off, although I am a veteran myself, I know that what the teacher did is in no way a crime; he may be a butt-head, but he's not a "traitor".

What annoys me is that the principal said "we would never censor what our students write", as if those elementary kids were reasoning adults (which, of course, they are not).

As someone who had the misfortune to teach a couple of years in an elementary school, I know that the teachers and administrators of the schools are charged, not with giving students license to write what they choose, but to educate and mold them. Sometimes censorship is needed, especially when you're dealing with kids who simply don't understand the basic concepts of right and wrong (or appropriate and inapproporiate, if you prefer).

I agree with you in principle, the problem is, however, that the united states have no free press and hence cannot be rightfully called a "free" country. Therefore, the "molding" of the tender minds of our children to the inhumane commandments of straussian/neocon/militaristic beliefs is something at least highly questionnable.

krotzkrotz says:

"I agree with you in principle, the problem is, however, that the united states have no free press and hence cannot be rightfully called a "free" country. Therefore, the "molding" of the tender minds of our children to the inhumane commandments of straussian/neocon/militaristic beliefs is something at least highly questionnable."

Krotzkrotz, I have never read any of your posts before, which is surprising; we both joined at about the same time and have about the same number of posts (based on our points).

However, you are certainly unique -- to me, anyway -- in that you are the first person on this forum for whom I have decided, after reading only three posts, to place on permanent ignore.


[edit on 25-2-2005 by Off_The_Street]

where were those of you who think that these students writings should not
be monitored a week or so ago? two students of this same age group were arrested for drawing stick figures in class.

I would post a link to the article but it violates the TOS of this board.

Originally posted by stalkingwolf
where were those of you who think that these students writings should not
be monitored a week or so ago? two students of this same age group were arrested for drawing stick figures in class.

I would post a link to the article but it violates the TOS of this board.

Excellant point there wolf dude. Students are arrested for making lists too.

Apparently some of you on this post have never raised children. Yes they are bright, inquisitive little people but they are not capable of thinking like adults. They have a problem separating fact from fiction. They do not understand that the news media is bias. They have no idea what propaganda is much less how to recognize it. Most of thier 'Opinions' are based on what they have overheard from adult conversations They do not get together at lunch around the water cooler and talk about world events.
They are very impressionable and their world is so much less complicted that everything to them is black and white. Asking them to write letters in support of the troops was fine but what should have happened is the teacher should have sceened the letters before they were sent out. After all it was an assignment. The teacher could have then discussed the contents with the students in an open unbias forum in class. After all that
is why we send them to school in the first place. The problem here is the teacher dropped the ball on this one.

OK, I've read all 5 pages so far and some of you need a clue:

1. The 'teacher' asked the father if his son would like some letters from the students for the holidays. The 'teacher' KNEW the son was stationed in KOREA not IRAQ.

2. The Soldier agreed because he knew the school.

3. All but ONE of the letters contained direct 'slams' towards the Soldier. One of the letters was outright hatred.

4. This was supposed to be a Social Studies project.

5. If you look at the way the letters are worded it is clear (at least to me) that the kids were coached on what to say and how to say it.

Teachers should Teach subject matter FACTS, not their personal opinon and bias.

These are Middle School age KIDS not Junior High or High School age kids. This age group is very impresionable and it's easy to mold the way they think. This 'teacher', in my opinion, was brain washing these kids.

6. Kids this age should be worrying about things other than politics, but I guess the Liberal Left wants to start the brain washing early.

The 'teacher' nor the school has responded to questions because the family is probably going to sue them (the soldier can't).

7. The father has been on some of the TV shows after the story broke in the news and the only people that said that 'well, the letters weren't that bad' are those from the Liberal Left.

The 'teacher' should be fired! He promoted Hate Speach (FELONY). The school allowed Hate Speach to be sent through the US Mail (FELONY).

To those of you that have a clue:

De Opresso Liber!

Originally posted by DrHoracid
If this isn't proof the left needs to be purged from our schools nothing ever will. This "teacher" needs to be put on trial for treason. Then (if found guilty) executed on national TV as an example.

DrHoracid.... im almost stunned.. are you for real?

--

The thing is everyone has there right to there own opinion, as inviduals these children have a right to say what they believe. (Aslong as what they say isn't out-right racist/abusive or of a threatening nature)

but, these men are away from there families, its hard on them. They don't have all the luxuries most people find easily accessible. Those of you who work, come home at night and sit back do what you like. Even on there off-hours these men are still there. They can't just go home. They need support. In my belief the teacher should of removed the negative letters.

Vorta

[edit on 25-2-2005 by Vorta]

Originally posted by NightStalker


3. All but ONE of the letters contained direct 'slams' towards the Soldier. One of the letters was outright hatred.

This is where I quit reading your post.......

There were 25 letters and only 9 of them were not completly positive. Out of those 9 letters, only 1 blasted the soldiers. If you cant read the article and at least get this right, then how many other of your facts are what you want them to be.................

The Universal Topic

The thread was moving along pretty much as one would expect, and then krotzkrotz came along and wrote:

Originally posted by krotzkrotz
This is good. Bush is a mass murderer and the greatest civilisation-destroyer since Alexander the Great and Ghengis Khan in the middle east. [...]

Then, in the next post, krotzkrotz wrote:

Originally posted by krotzkrotz
Communism and Neoconism have something in common even you will agree on : Both turn victim countries into paradises

And then:

Originally posted by krotzkrotz
The Taliban would have needed 10^69 years of Buddha bombing to equate the destructive power of the US air force in Iraq. And Napoleon is a saint compared to Bush.

Followed by:

Originally posted by krotzkrotz
[...] the problem is, however, that the united states have no free press and hence cannot be rightfully called a "free" country. Therefore, the "molding" of the tender minds of our children to the inhumane commandments of straussian/neocon/militaristic beliefs is something at least highly questionnable.

Wow. That's quite an impressive tour de force.

krotzkrotz, you kept moving and didn't let anyone pin you down, all while laying out a wildly wide-ranging and outspoken agenda.

Almost dizzying, and very adroit work.

Why I Care

One of my hobbies is the study of Information Warfare.

While I find ATS fertile ground for my pursuits, your posts in this thread, taken as they are presented, stand out as one of the finest examples of a concentrated off-topic propaganda blitz I can recall reading since I registered here. However, I may simply have forgotten the last one that was better. Due to their nature, they tend to be forgotten quickly.

I know I've seen some very professional work on ATS, and I have to believe there is better out there, but this barrage just sort of leaped out and caught my attention today. I may have even missed better offerings just in this thread alone. However, if I did, then they didn't get my attention, and are therefore probably not as effective by definition (or more so, depending on the goal of the blitz).

Regardless, I can assure you, there is plenty of competition in this field, but your performance here puts in at the top of the field.

krotzkrotz, I would ask you to clarify what your position on the actual topic is (i.e., something more than “this is good”), but I'm not sure I would want you to spoil such a breathtaking run.

Propaganda And ATS

Finally, while I am a student of propaganda, I come to ATS to find information I can't find elsewhere – especially information not published by “mainstream” information merchants.

Propaganda doesn't tend to fit that mold. In my opinion, laying out so many different positions in such a rapid-fire series amounts to carpet-bombing the thread. But that's just my opinion.

Although I'm not a big fan of propaganda on ATS, I was nonetheless impressed enough to take the time to make this post and point out a shining example of it in action.

Also, don't get me wrong. Lots of people post propaganda to ATS, and most don't even realize it. It just seems to stand out here for some reason.

So I guess you could call that a compliment.

Unlike Off_The_Street, I'm not planning to put you on ignore. Rather, I will be watching.


[edit on 2/25/2005 by Majic]

Im sorry but i think some ppl who are responding to this thread need to learn some facts and give a little respect to the soldiers who are over there. Many of them dont wanna be over there in the first place so calling them gangsters of capitalism is completely ridiculous(General Zapata). Also saying that they should be ready to watch their buddies die because they are in the military is f**king offensive. Just because you are a soldier doesnt mean that watching anyone, friend or foe, easy. Explain to me how it is.....please do. Im not against the kids sending the letters its thier right. But honestly they are in the 6th grade what do they really know about the war. Other than what their parents and the tv tells them. Please dont belittle what the soldiers are doing whether you agree with it what they are doing or not. Contrary to popular belief they are not shooting civilians over there for kicks and giggles. Please all i ask is a little repsect for them putting thier lives on the line.

Good post terp.



Please tell me that's terp as in the Maryland Terps.

thatsjustwierd: Thanks oh yeah its the Univ of Maryland Terps. Where in southern maryland you from? Im from La Plata.

Oh a side note...........Duke got swept and i love every minute of it.

Originally posted by TerpTillIDie
Many of them dont wanna be over there in the first place so calling them gangsters of capitalism is completely ridiculous(General Zapata).

if they didn't want to be over there, they should have refused to get on the plane. They should have refused to fire a weapon at a citizen of the country that they nation is to occupy. They should have gone to jail for desertion rather than submit to their leader's imperialist agenda.

DID YOU KNOW THIS?

Did you know that 47 countries have reestablished their embassies in Iraq?

Did you know that the Iraqi government employs 1.2 million Iraqi people?

Did you know that 3100 schools have been renovated, 364 schools are under rehabilitation, 263 schools are now under construction and 38 new schools have been built in Iraq?

Did you know that Iraq’s higher educational structure consists of 20 Universities, 46 Institutes or colleges and 4 research centers?

Did you know that 25 Iraq students departed for the United States in January 2004 for the reestablished Fulbright program?

Did you know that the Iraqi Navy is operational? They have 5- 100-foot patrol craft, 34 smaller vessels and a navel infantry regiment.

Did you know that Iraq’s Air Force consists of three operation squadrons, 9 reconnaissance and 3 US C-130 transport aircraft which operate day and night, and will soon add 16 UH-1 helicopters and 4 bell jet rangers?

Did you know that Iraq has a counter-terrorist unit and a Commando Battalion?

Did you know that the Iraqi Police Service has over 55,000 fully trained and equipped police officers?

Did you know that there are 5 Police Academies in Iraq that produce over 3500 new officers each 8 weeks?

Did you know there are more than 1100 building projects going on in Iraq? They include 364 schools, 67 public clinics, 15 hospitals, 83 railroad stations, 22 oil facilities, 93 water facilities and 69 electrical facilities.

Did you know that 96% of Iraqi children under the age of 5 have received the first 2 series of polio vaccinations?

Did you know that 4.3 million Iraqi children were enrolled in primary school by mid October?

Did you know that there are 1,192,000 cell phone subscribers in Iraq and phone use has gone up 158%?

Did you know that Iraq has an independent media that consist of 75 radio stations, 180 newspapers and 10 television stations?

Did you know that the Baghdad Stock Exchange opened in June of 2004?

Did you know that 2 candidates in the Iraqi presidential election had a televised debate in their country recently?

Hey there, SW...would you mind citing your source for these "Did You Know" stats?

Tho they may be considered positive reading...i fear that they apply only to a few privilaged in that country...and that all that rebuilding is being done by OUTSIDE AMERICAN CONTRACTORS...not the Iraqi people themselves....

Give a man a fish, he'll eat it and come back for more...Teach a man to fish, and he will become self sufficient. That is all the US should be doing over there...teaching self sufficiency...NOTHING MORE.

As I said in an earlier post, returning to the origional topic...the TEACHER asked for the kids to write...IT WAS AN ASSIGNMENT....kids are NOT blind, they are less inhibited by society's rules at that age...and they will say it like they see it...I do not believe that the teacher unduely influenced a mere 9 children to speak their minds...period.

~oracle

[edit on 25-2-2005 by Oracle]

Originally posted by TerpTillIDie
thatsjustwierd: Thanks oh yeah its the Univ of Maryland Terps. Where in southern maryland you from? Im from La Plata.

Oh a side note...........Duke got swept and i love every minute of it.

That's Site S (classified), not S as in southern...

I'm loving beating Duke twice (soon to be 3 times) too
(can't believe they lost to Clemson twice though, what's up with that? )

kids are NOT blind, they are less inhibited by society's rules at that age...and they will say it like they see it

As mentioned before, they will say it like they're told by parents and by the TV/media. You're going to tell me kids at that age are less likely to be influenced by what they're told than when they're older? Are you joking?