Pence unveils plan to create Space Force by 2020

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: vinifalou

U.S Star Fleet

With no viable way of getting to space other than with the help of others ... bloody hilarious.

Fourth, the Department will create a U.S. Space Command, led by a four star general or flag officer, to lead the use of space assets in warfighting and accelerate integration of space capabilities into other warfighting forces. U.S. Space Command will be responsible for directing the employment of the Space Force.

And how much will this new branch of warfare cost ?
How many science missions will be cut to fund it ?
And isn't this just more pie in the sky ?

Once again this administration proves it has no idea what it's doing.

Post like these are classic examples of how NOT to think critically.

SpaceX along with other private ventures, to include official Gov have been working on that quite some time. So you statement of,

"With no viable way of getting to space other than with the help of others ... bloody hilarious."

Is rendered invalid.

As for the second part of the post, had you been following the thread, you'll see that existing branches and services will be consolidated and from there orders will be cut IAW mission perimeters.

Once again, leftist unable to see past their own noses. This administration is proving that it knows what its doing and whats needed to engage an environment it clearly see's at risk.

a reply to: Trueman

As Robert pointed out this has been in the works for decades. The "not starting from scratch" simply means the existing infrastructure will move from the current commands to the new command.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Trueman

As Robert pointed out this has been in the works for decades. The "not starting from scratch" simply means the existing infrastructure will move from the current commands to the new command.

Infrastructure like Area 51 ?

a reply to: Arnie123

Post like these are classic examples of how NOT to think critically. SpaceX along with other private ventures, to include official Gov have been working on that quite some time. So you statement of, "With no viable way of getting to space other than with the help of others ... bloody hilarious." Is rendered invalid.

At present it is true and even then SpaceX is a private company , they are still "others"

As for the second part of the post, had you been following the thread, you'll see that existing branches and services will be consolidated and from there orders will be cut IAW mission perimeters.

Yeh , I'm sure that will happen.

Once again, leftist unable to see past their own noses. This administration is proving that it knows what its doing and whats needed to engage an environment it clearly see's at risk.

Ah , leftist jibe ... of course.
Can you not think beyond the Left vs Right BS anymore ?

a reply to: Trueman

No. Like GPS satellites, launch facilities, communications satellites, recon satellites, and that kind of infrastructure.

a reply to: gortex

And who do you think launches all our military satellites? Private companies. Currently SpaceX and ULA are the two biggest.

a reply to: vinifalou

Isn't there a treaty that states we can not militarize space ?

a reply to: Gargoyle91

No. It says we can't put nuclear weapons or WMDs into orbit or military installations outside of orbit, such as on the moon.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Yeah I just read up on it

So. Here is some (circumstantial) evidence that Trump really was not a surprise win and that Obama did things to prepare for the Trump presidency before Trump even announced his candidacy.

What am I talking about? Obama's abrupt cancellation of the space shuttle program. Now of course there could be many reasons for that but IF Obama knew this was going to happen, it makes perfect sense. One of the main reasons the shuttle was designed the way it was (with the giant cargo bay) was to carry military equipment into space. This was NASA's strategy for maintaining funding. They figured as long as the government needed them to keep launching satellites their funding for scientific missions would be provided as well.

Would a US president really cancel the main heavy launch vehicle with no plans to replace it? How could he know for sure the next president would focus more on space for military purposes?

a reply to: Zaphod58

So the 38k people from space command will now call themselves space force?

And the folks from naval space command?

Sounds like a new beuracratic money pit for things that already exist. Also the navy for instance may be more efficient at protecting the satellites it's creating than having to pass it off to a third party they may be keeping information from.

a reply to: luthier

All three commands will roll into Space Force. And this will actually save some money. Instead of paying for three separate commands to do the same thing, we'll be paying for one service.

None of the services are currently efficient at protecting their satellites. And they won't be constructing their satellites or passing anything on to anyone. It will be going the other way.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: luthier

All three commands will roll into Space Force. And this will actually save some money. Instead of paying for three separate commands to do the same thing, we'll be paying for one service.

None of the services are currently efficient at protecting their satellites. And they won't be constructing their satellites or passing anything on to anyone. It will be going the other way.

So space command is going to design the satellites for the navy?

I seriously doubt this will save money. In fact I am almost positive it will do the opposite as the correspondence between the terrestrial service and space force will create another link of beauracracy and most likely autonomy from the other branches..and delay in information sharing.

It's not exactly hardening satellites people are doing its creating specific task mini satellites, being smart in space is situational awareness not fire power at this point. We aren't even close to having trade or property to protect.

Now it certainly is a problem the 9 billion spent by the air force doesn't get anything. But creating a whole branch that will expand beauracracy isn't the only solution.

NASA should be better run and funded and the armed forces should be riding along with them. I can't see another funding mouth to feed is going to save money.

Of course I can be very wrong I just haven't seen much evidence expanding the government creates efficiency. Even when departments are combined.

a reply to: luthier

Having one service instead of three commands makes more sense. The way it's setup now is stupid, and it's causing more issues than its helping. We're going to lose our advantage if things don't change. The status quo isn't working anymore.

NASA wouldn't help the military, even if it was better run, because they don't do what the military does. All they would do is help with launches. The actual systems and operations would still be under the military.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I disagree and I think I did a slightly better job explaining than its stupid now so anything else is better.

Innovation is driven by the hard sciences (nasa) where scientists should be working in physics, Quantum Mechanics, Biology etc

Those discoveries are what lead to the armed services having future access to technology other places don't. When you limit a scientist to a weapon design they are using known physics or currently theorized physics. Drawing from NASA or the hard sciences is the fuel for better weapons and defense IMO.

Creating another branch that has to communicate to all the terstrials branches is a terrible idea imo for so many reasons.

Including the ability to infiltrate one organization and control many.

I would be a hard no with a caviat space is a priority for the armed services and for advanced theoretical research if it were a vote.

The government creating a new branch may sound efficient but when trying to find an example of that working it would be a miracle to find one.

Edit just to be clear what I mean. Cluster satellites that have to be targeted individually to take down a system and quantum teleportarion communication are concepts that prevent satellite damage or information theft.

These concepts aren't like having pilots looking for bad guys.

originally posted by: BrianFlanders

What am I talking about?

I have no idea.

a reply to: luthier

The military has done huge work in the hard sciences as well. They don't just come from NASA and the civilian world and they're not just for weapons either. There's a lot more to what they develop than just weapons.

So the best course of action is nothing? If you roll the other commands into an existing one, you have the same problems. If you put the Navy and Army under the Air Force, or under a Space Corps that's overseen by an existing service, they're going to focus on their service's needs before anyone else and slow roll everyone else.

We don't need three commands to control space, but we need an organization that's independent from the existing commands. The only way that happens is to have a new organization to oversee them.

Or we can sit here and twiddle our thumbs and do nothing at all.

originally posted by: vinifalou

originally posted by: BrianFlanders

What am I talking about?

I have no idea.

You weren't aware that Obama presided over the end of the space shuttle program?

a reply to: Zaphod58

What are you talking about specifically? I know places like Navy labs have a history of work there are plenty and the dept of energy and service work with fermilabs and several like facilities around the country.

Science is science. China isnt winning because they have a space force. They are winning because they are doing the work. They have a base of physicists and funding to make working models etc..

Private companies cloud satellite tech is also not reliant on space commanders.

China is close to quantum teleportarion with space, that is because they have funding to study this.

If the us doesn't have the graduating brain trust to do the science work, beauracracy isn't a magic wand.

In fact creating a spaceforce is putting your eggs in one basket and like I said if infiltrated effects them all.

If the DOD, FBI, Navy, etc all have some separation you create a natural cluster network much harder to infiltrate them all at once. Space force is far too broad an umbrella to be safe Imo.

That sounds like one hack away from every branches information.

Edit lots of typos

a reply to: luthier

And the US isn't doing the work because the existing commands are under services that have higher priorities than missions in space, so their budget is going to them. This puts the budget in the hands of a service that doesn't have higher priorities than space.

The military has done work in many fields of what would be considered hard sciences from energy to lasers and more.

China said they're close to quantum teleportation with space, so we just believe them?