Progressives Criticize Berkeley Police for Publishing Antifa Protester Identities

originally posted by: oloufo
a reply to: Diisenchanted

it's fascinating to see people living in their bubble. and its sad. because you are the real sheep and you dont even know it. you are helping the far-right to grow. did your grandfather fight against nazis or against antifacists? tell me. do you realize that all this neonazis around the world are celebrating folks like you? they celebrate trump, they celebrate putin, they celebrate breitbart and all this crap. they celebrate them, because they spread chaos and fear. we do have antifa in germany, yes, and sometimes cars burning and windows get smashed. i know some activists. they sometimes act stupid, but they never killed anyone in opposite to neonazis and racists. so, why you people dont stand up against the far-right-movement? i dont get it.

My grandfather fought against the tyrany of communism... an ethos ANTIFA has already declared support for. Also, last I checked, the body counts racked up by communist and socialist asshat dictators dwarfs those of every "far right" regime through history. en.wikipedia.org... there's your "burning cars and smashed windows." friend... you may have to move 100 million dead bodies to see them, however.

originally posted by: seeker1963
Burn some books then! Maybe it will make you feel better?

That came out of left field.

I support the Constitution and Freedom and Liberty, if you are against that? Then I guess you and I or your comrades will square off when the time comes?

This also has nothing to do with what I posted. Who asked you about what you support?

The FF used guerrilla tactics and so do Antifa. All I said was that someone always complains even if their freedom was obtained using the same tactics, which seems a tad hypocritical.

timeline.com...

For as long as there have been fascists, there has been debate over the way to respond to them. In his new book, Antifa, historian and organizer Mark Bray traces various leftist anti-fascist movements from the 1930s Europe to the “Antifa” movements we see on the streets today. The history of anti-fascism, it seems, is stuck on repeat, with the same arguments over free speech and uncompromising resistance cropping up repeatedly. Disruption—sometimes violent disruption—has been central to anti-fascist action from the beginning. Many Jewish anti-fascists in Britain argued, “fists can be put to better service than propelling pens.” Communist anti-fascist papers in Germany read, “Hit the fascists wherever you meet them!” and “Wherever a fascist dares to show his face in the quarters of the working class, workers’ fists will light his way home. Berlin is red! Berlin is staying red!” But others were quick to rebuff these tactics. After the Battle of Cable Street, the older Jewish generation argued that the anti-fascists were “copying the Nazi violence which we loathe and detest.” They thought Jews should take the moral high ground and “show the world that the Jew can be as good a citizen as anybody else.” Some political groups issued leaflets arguing for “Dignity, Order, and Discipline.” Rather than facing off with the fascists, those who opposed fascism should attend a rally in support of the Spanish Republic nearby instead, they argued. Fascism could be quashed through legal and electoral means.

so even back then we were having pretty much this exact convo with mostly the same results

www.jacobinmag.com...

The movement has shrunken continuously since the late 1990s, fragmented across ideological lines and unable to adjust its original autonomist strategies to shifting patterns of urbanization and the rise of right-populism. Its most promising products of late — the mass mobilizations against neo-Nazi marches in cities like Dresden, as well as the formation of a new, distinctively post-autonomist current in the form of the Interventionist Left — mark a departure from rather than a revival of classical Antifa strategy. Antifascism has surged to the fore of debates on the American left under Trump’s presidency, and many of the tactics and visual styles of the German Antifa can be seen emerging in cities like Berkeley and elsewhere. Some argue that with the arrival of European-style neo-fascist movements on American shores, it is also time to import European Antifa tactics in response. Yet the Antifa of today is not a product of a political victory from which we can draw our own strength, but of defeat — socialism’s defeat at the hands of Nazism and resurgent global capitalism, and later the exhaustion of the autonomist movement in the wake of the neoliberal turn and the sweeping gentrification of many German cities.

really really really long article about the history of antifa

www.vox.com...

The attack on peaceful right-wing protesters has once again invigorated debates over the use of political violence — discussions that go back to a protester punching white nationalist Richard Spencer in the face during rallies against President Donald Trump’s inauguration. Such violence violates longstanding political norms in the US, and many Americans find any political violence deplorable — but it’s now a topic of conversation nonetheless. The argument for antifa activists is that the current crop of right-wing protesters — which are partly but not entirely made up of neo-Nazis, KKK members, and other white supremacists and nationalists — are so extreme that they must be stopped swiftly and even violently. Antifa supporters worry that if these groups’ views aren’t completely robbed of any kind of platform, they could gain legitimacy — and take advantage of democratic ideals like free speech to, ironically, promote their undemocratic messages. Violence is one way to get them off the stage. What this view misses is the backlash that may come from political violence: that such violence can reinforce right-wing views about the left. As Michael Kazin, a history professor at Georgetown University and editor of Dissent magazine, told me earlier this year, “[N]on-leftists often see [the left] as a disruptive, lawless force. Violence tends to confirm that view.” Antifa’s violence plays into Trump’s hands Some of this backlash is already happening. Consider how Trump himself reacted to Charlottesville. He drew a lot of (justified) criticism for arguing that “both sides” had been behind the violence in Charlottesville, instead of pinning the blame on the white supremacists who swarmed the Virginia city and caused mayhem. But one reason Trump could draw up this false equivalence in the first place is because antifa protesters have been carrying out violence against right-wing groups for months now. As Peter Beinart reported in the Atlantic, antifa activists have violently protested right-wing speakers like Milo Yiannopoulos and conservative political scientist Charles Murray. In the Yiannopoulos protests in particular, antifa activists even threw explosive Molotov cocktails and other objects at police. When far-left protesters act violently, it gives Trump and other conservatives more ammunition to draw equivalencies between the far left and far right — even if it is a false equivalence, given that America has a long history of racist violence and very little, by comparison, of left-wing violence. And this argument seems to be working for a lot of people. A poll earlier this month by SurveyMonkey found that while 46 percent of US adults said far-right protesters were mostly to blame for the violence in Charlottesville, 40 percent agreed that the blame fell equally on both sides and another 9 percent blamed counterprotesters. (Although another poll found that a majority of Americans still disapproved of Trump’s reaction to Charlottesville.) This wouldn’t be the first time violence has led to a conservative backlash in the US. During the 1960s, there were hundreds of riots across America in protest of police brutality and in support of civil rights. Experts say the riots were a major contributor to the rise of “law and order” and “tough on crime” policies that followed in the coming decades. These policies made police more aggressive and filled America’s prisons to levels never seen before in US history. In short, the perception of lawlessness led both Americans and their politicians to demand more stringent law enforcement. Omar Wasow, a political scientist at Princeton University, noted as much in a recent study: In presidential elections, proximity to black-led nonviolent protests increased white Democratic vote-share whereas proximity to black-led violent protests caused substantively important declines and likely tipped the 1968 election from [Democrat] Hubert Humphrey to [Republican] Richard Nixon. Violent protests led to a conservative backlash, while nonviolent demonstrations helped liberals. The paper concludes, “[W]hile violence in response to repression is often justifiable, this research suggest it may not be strategic.”

even vox wants antifa to tone it down a bit and talks about how it plays right into trumps hands

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: seeker1963
Burn some books then! Maybe it will make you feel better?

That came out of left field.

I support the Constitution and Freedom and Liberty, if you are against that? Then I guess you and I or your comrades will square off when the time comes?

This also has nothing to do with what I posted. Who asked you about what you support?

The FF used guerrilla tactics and so do Antifa. All I said was that someone always complains even if their freedom was obtained using the same tactics, which seems a tad hypocritical.

Came out of left field aye? Like your first comment to me?

I get it! You make excuses for violence when those who are instigating it supports your team. I only justify the use of violence when someone is physically making a threat to harm someone else.

Someone speaking who says things that might make someone angry, does not justify committing and act of violence against that person.

Without a platform of "FREE" ideas without being hit in the head with a bike lock for pissing off a weak minded idiot, we might as well just all put on shackles to be the slaves our masters are counting on.....

Done with ya comrade! You are pissing in the wind if you think I am gonna play with you any longer.

a reply to: Diisenchanted

If you are peacefully assembling you don't need a mask.

Just saying.

originally posted by: seeker1963
Came out of left field aye? Like your first comment to me?

Actually, no. The OP is about Antifa hiding and not holding their head up and my first comment was about the boston tea party where rebels did the same.

Your comment was about progs calling the FF racists and terrorists.

My first comment to you was that since you are calling Antifa terrorists based on similar actions then you must all be on the same page now.

I get it! You make excuses for violence when those who are instigating it supports your team.

They are not my team so, no.

I pointed out the similarity in actions and how the british, then, and people like the OP, now, are also criticizing in similar fashion.

I dont think Americans realize how close democrats and republicans are compared to European standards. How ever socialism is starting to show in US politics so im not sure how long this will be true.

a reply to: dragonridr

You're absolutely right.

People seem to forget that before running for president Trump was a Democrat.

A majority of his political donations were to the Democratic party.

He was also a big Clinton supporter.

When he decided to run for the presidency all of a sudden he is alt-right and a white supremacist.

a reply to: Stevenjames15



Where do you think they get the nazi flags from to burn at every rally?

People calling these idiots fascists shouldn't be using the term "Antifa," because that's shorthand for "Anti-Fascist." Use their real name, Black Bloc. However their real mission is anarchy. Mostly, they just want to go burn and destroy, because it feels good. Everyone who isn't them is the enemy.

In terms of showing faces, I get nervous about people who wear masks and hoods, and it doesn't matter what color the sheets are. They aren't wearing them because they are going to commit annonymous acts of kindness.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: SprocketUK

It's categorized as its own entity. Right Wing extremists committed more terror attacks. Muslim extremists racked up a higher kill count primarily thanks to the Pulse Nightclub massacre. And Left Wing extremists didn't commit any terror attacks.

It's amazing how much this site fears groups like Antifa. Meanwhile a much smaller group like Atomwaffen has killed way more people, has training camps in the desert, and had plans to blow up a nuclear power plant.

The left wing didn't?

So you don't count republicans getting shot at during a practice as terrorism? Or did you just forget about it..

This is why you're full of it, typically.

a reply to: Diisenchanted

Boo hoo

a reply to: daskakik

Comparing the Boston tea partys rebel acts against a foreign nation invading us to reap the rewards of our hard work for their own profit,

With antifa or any left wing #resistance group....

Wow, you really are delusional.
And historically uneducated.

That's like comparing the Nazi party, to the Boston tea party.

Delete your account

originally posted by: AutisticEvo
Comparing the Boston tea partys rebel acts against a foreign nation invading us to reap the rewards of our hard work for their own profit,

With antifa or any left wing #resistance group....

Wow, you really are delusional.
And historically uneducated.

That's like comparing the Nazi party, to the Boston tea party.

Delete your account

Actually the reason behind the acts doesn't change the acts themselves.

Also, the colonies belonged to Britain. It wasn't a foreign nation. The USA didn't exist at that time.

If you had trouble following the logic it was:

OP: It is bad for people to act in anonymity when protesting. (Not the exact words)

Me: Does that apply to those who took part in the Boston Tea party?

You see, the moral high ground, or lack thereof, of the acts themselves never came into play.

a reply to: daskakik

Oh I saw clearly how you were trying to take things out of context with the op.

And the reasons behind the acts, and what they signify do actually play into it,

Boston tea party was throwing tea, and not many actually did it masked.

You are trying to derail the discussion by cherry picking sentences for a strawman argument.

And you know what the moral high ground is here.

I'm not going to bother explaining it to you because you should already know why this is an issue of discussion, but chose to take the whatabout logical fallacy.

Do not compare two historically unrelated things, that's an automatic fail on your part.

Sad enough you actually thought you could reply and defend your statement with me and try to accuse anyone but yourself of failing to understand.

If you don't know what the difference between what happened back in the day in Boston and what is going on today you need to go to the library and study history
More carefully before you continue on this thread.
Otherwise don't expect anyone to take you seriously

I hope that was a little more clear for you

originally posted by: AutisticEvo
Oh I saw clearly how you were trying to take things out of context with the op.

And the reasons behind the acts, and what they signify do actually play into it,

Not in the sense I was referring to.

I'm not going to bother explaining it to you...

I don't need you to. I know where I took it and why.

Do not compare two historically unrelated things, that's an automatic fail on your part.

Freedom is a great thing. I can compare what I want, as long as the comparison is done right.

Sad enough you actually thought you could reply and defend your statement with me and try to accuse anyone but yourself of failing to understand.

Actually, I did, if you can't grasp it that is not my problem.

If you don't know what the difference between what happened back in the day in Boston and what is going on today you need to go to the library and study history

I do know the difference, that is why I didn't compare the reason behind that acts.

More carefully before you continue on this thread.
Otherwise don't expect anyone to take you seriously

I hope that was a little more clear for you

I don't care how anyone takes me. Especially when they have their patriotic blinders on, just something I learned along the way.