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Ouch.... Manafort 'star witness' Rick Gates gets destroyed by Manafort's lawyers.

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posted on Aug, 8 2018 @ 03:51 PM
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a reply to: RalagaNarHallas

Wait, what? Gates admitted to lying to get his plea deal???!
Erm, has the case been thrown out yet?




posted on Aug, 8 2018 @ 03:52 PM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

What is it with Trump supporters cheerleading Manafort? The guy is sleazy af. He's made a living out of corrupting government, influence peddling, graft etc so he could buy $20k ostrich skin jackets. He promised and tried to get an administration appointment for a banker in exchange for a mortgage he needed to bridge the gap until he could sell influence over Trump to his Russian sugar daddies.

And all of sudden you're acting like tax evasion, money laundering, bank fraud, etc are somehow crimes that shouldn't be prosecuted.

Manafort belongs in jail. He should have been in jail decades ago. Rooting for him to get away with it for no other reason than because he ran Trump's campaign in the Summer of 2016? What the hell is that?

Drain the swamp indeed.


If you are not going to remove all the snakes from all sides in the pit, I would much rather have another snake slither in to get things done than toss in a juicy mouse. We let politics become a slimy business and it needs a particular kind of varmint to play there successfully. And you can't tell me that those congress critters and lobbyist don't retire from D.C. with all those new found millions by being squeaky clean.

So yeah, it's not about tax fraud, money laundering or anything else except trying to remove a legally elected President that some don't like from office anyway they can.



posted on Aug, 8 2018 @ 03:56 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

1. I do agree with your assessment of the income tax, and have argued that it's unnecessary for running our nation for many years...and is akin to armed robbery, not just theft.

2. Agreed as well, but the bottom line is if you do the crime, you should do the time.

3. Yeah, I tend to agree with that as well, although it's a very common practice and sometimes it's the only way to crack a case and bring down bigger fish.



posted on Aug, 8 2018 @ 03:57 PM
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originally posted by: Bramble Iceshimmer

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

What is it with Trump supporters cheerleading Manafort? The guy is sleazy af. He's made a living out of corrupting government, influence peddling, graft etc so he could buy $20k ostrich skin jackets. He promised and tried to get an administration appointment for a banker in exchange for a mortgage he needed to bridge the gap until he could sell influence over Trump to his Russian sugar daddies.

And all of sudden you're acting like tax evasion, money laundering, bank fraud, etc are somehow crimes that shouldn't be prosecuted.

Manafort belongs in jail. He should have been in jail decades ago. Rooting for him to get away with it for no other reason than because he ran Trump's campaign in the Summer of 2016? What the hell is that?

Drain the swamp indeed.


If you are not going to remove all the snakes from all sides in the pit, I would much rather have another snake slither in to get things done than toss in a juicy mouse. We let politics become a slimy business and it needs a particular kind of varmint to play there successfully. And you can't tell me that those congress critters and lobbyist don't retire from D.C. with all those new found millions by being squeaky clean.

So yeah, it's not about tax fraud, money laundering or anything else except trying to remove a legally elected President that some don't like from office anyway they can.


Holy Moley I found a conservative leaning poster that doesn't want to get rid of any 'slimy' democrats. I never thought I'd see the day!

Or rather, I think what you meant to say was , "I don't care how slimy or criminal a politician (or someone working in politics) is if they're Republican".



posted on Aug, 8 2018 @ 03:57 PM
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a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

That's my point exactly. The other poster complained about the original OP source and cited Wikipedia to bolster the claim.

There are many sources all over with the same information. It's from a court transcript which really is hard to argue with as it is an accurate sworn written account by a present witness. It just didn't say what the source complainer wanted



posted on Aug, 8 2018 @ 04:03 PM
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a reply to: angeldoll


There might be countries where people pay no income tax. The U.S. is not one of them, we do pay, and if we don't, it's a crime.


It wasn't always... because it isn't supposed to be. So the "crime" is really only under color of law. Not legitimate law.


It doesn't really matter whether we like it or not.


It's not about "liking" it. It's about doing the right thing for the right reason.


If you dislike it as much as Manafort seems to have, you can go to prison.


Nice. You'll throw me in prison because I don't like a law.... not because I actually broke the law... not because I pose any threat to you or anyone else... but just because I don't like the law. A perfect example of how the law -- and the guns used to enforce the law -- are abused. Bully much???


Manafort is having a trial by Jury (supposedly a jury of his peers, but I doubt if there will be any Ukrainian Oligarchs included) so it will only be plain ole tax paying Americans returning a verdict.

We'll see what they think.


Yes, we will. We already know the judge -- the EXPERT in the law -- thinks it's pretty craptastic. I sure hope the jurors know about jury nullification. Actually, it just takes one...



posted on Aug, 8 2018 @ 04:15 PM
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originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: Boadicea

1. I do agree with your assessment of the income tax, and have argued that it's unnecessary for running our nation for many years...and is akin to armed robbery, not just theft.


Oh no! I've totally missed that!!! I'd love to hear your reasoning... one of these days



2. Agreed as well, but the bottom line is if you do the crime, you should do the time.


I once believed that too. Rule of law and all that. But I've come to believe that attitude feeds the problem. Common law is an integral part of the foundation of law. If we do not prosecute everyone for the "crime", then we prosecute no one for the "crime."


3. Yeah, I tend to agree with that as well, although it's a very common practice and sometimes it's the only way to crack a case and bring down bigger fish.


I can see the virtue in some such deals, although I would prefer reduced sentencing, as opposed to immunity... but in this case, both Gates and Manafort are scum. I don't see anything worse about Manafort's crimes than Gates' crimes. Or how it benefits the people.



posted on Aug, 8 2018 @ 04:24 PM
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originally posted by: Wayfarer
Holy Moley I found a conservative leaning poster that doesn't want to get rid of any 'slimy' democrats. I never thought I'd see the day!

Or rather, I think what you meant to say was , "I don't care how slimy or criminal a politician (or someone working in politics) is if they're Republican".


It ain't as simple as just getting rid of 'slimy' democrats. That kind of vacuum would allow too much air to rush in and the backdraft would burn the place completely down. And as much as I might like to see that we still need some semblance of a working Government. A slow attrition is the way to go.



posted on Aug, 8 2018 @ 05:34 PM
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a reply to: shooterbrody


A lot of people with tax issues are given the opportunity to rectify them with no charges being brought.


Really? Wesley Snipes got 3 years for not paying taxes for 3 years. Pete Rose did time for not reporting $354,000 in memorabilia sales. The dude that won Survivor got like 4 years for not paying taxes on the million he won from the show.

Manafort on the other hand laundered the proceeds of his ill begotten gains for decades and committed bank fraud as part of a criminal enterprise and you're acting like he's Willie Nelson and we should throw him a benefit concert.


A lot of people with fara issues are allowed to retroactively file the proper paperwork.


You mean like Mike Flynn? Or nah? Tony Podesta? See, where you're looking for justifications to let Manafort skirt, I'm of the opinion that they should all be prosecuted. It's well past time we stop messing around with lobbyists. Time to start making some examples.

You want to be butthurt about equal application of the law? Imagine if you, some everyday person who wasn't a highly paid politically paid slimeball, was guilty of decades of crimes like this. Do you think you'd get to skate?
edit on 2018-8-8 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 8 2018 @ 05:48 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian




Really? Wesley Snipes got 3 years for not paying taxes for 3 years. Pete Rose did time for not reporting $354,000 in memorabilia sales. The dude that won Survivor got like 4 years for not paying taxes on the million he won from the show.


You say that like its a foregone conclusion, but isnt that what they are trying prove in court?

Innocent until proven guilty right? Unless he worked for Trump at some point lol...
edit on 8-8-2018 by notsure1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 8 2018 @ 06:51 PM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: shooterbrody


A lot of people with tax issues are given the opportunity to rectify them with no charges being brought.


Really? Wesley Snipes got 3 years for not paying taxes for 3 years. Pete Rose did time for not reporting $354,000 in memorabilia sales. The dude that won Survivor got like 4 years for not paying taxes on the million he won from the show.

Manafort on the other hand laundered the proceeds of his ill begotten gains for decades and committed bank fraud as part of a criminal enterprise and you're acting like he's Willie Nelson and we should throw him a benefit concert.


A lot of people with fara issues are allowed to retroactively file the proper paperwork.


You mean like Mike Flynn? Or nah? Tony Podesta? See, where you're looking for justifications to let Manafort skirt, I'm of the opinion that they should all be prosecuted. It's well past time we stop messing around with lobbyists. Time to start making some examples.

You want to be butthurt about equal application of the law? Imagine if you, some everyday person who wasn't a highly paid politically paid slimeball, was guilty of decades of crimes like this. Do you think you'd get to skate?

You conveniently left out the fact that Manafort was previously investigated on these issues and NOT CHARGED.
Gee wonder who decided not to charge him???

Funny now you appear to be in favor of prosecuting some and not others for the exact same crimes.

Prosecute them all for the crimes or none.
Pursuing some on what appears to be political motivation is bs.



posted on Aug, 8 2018 @ 07:20 PM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: AndyFromMichigan
And all of sudden you're acting like tax evasion, money laundering, bank fraud, etc are somehow crimes that shouldn't be prosecuted.


If thats why he was actually on the stand then yes - fair enough

but you're pretty ignorant if you believe he's not there for the sole reason of bringing down Trump.

Mueller and co are a sham, all you types who have been screaming how guilty trump is of collusion and will be impeached.. this is your climax.. this is where you got to and guess what.. its crumbling in front of you because it was nonsense from the beginning.



posted on Aug, 8 2018 @ 07:22 PM
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originally posted by: shooterbrody
Funny now you appear to be in favor of prosecuting some and not others for the exact same crimes.


amazing right...

i don't know if these members of our board deliberately do it or unknowingly do it.. but its ridiculous and embarrassing!

my favorite is collusion

'' yes we took millions, yes we took bribes, yes we made promises, yes we forgot to tell you BUT its all innocent I promise. Trump however, we suspect he may have received evidence of our crimes. HES A RUSSIAN SPY!!!!! ''



posted on Aug, 9 2018 @ 01:58 AM
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originally posted by: Agit8dChop

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: AndyFromMichigan
And all of sudden you're acting like tax evasion, money laundering, bank fraud, etc are somehow crimes that shouldn't be prosecuted.


If thats why he was actually on the stand then yes - fair enough

but you're pretty ignorant if you believe he's not there for the sole reason of bringing down Trump.

Mueller and co are a sham, all you types who have been screaming how guilty trump is of collusion and will be impeached.. this is your climax.. this is where you got to and guess what.. its crumbling in front of you because it was nonsense from the beginning.


If this is their climax they must be pretty disappointed. This case has nothing to do with Trump or his campaign. The judge made that clear.

I do wonder why lefties are so interested in this case from a decade ago. Almost as if they are unaware it's got nothing to do with their President.
edit on 9/8/2018 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2018 @ 03:30 AM
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originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: Feltrick

Because tax fraud is a good thing?

I have to pay taxes, but for some reason or other, Manafort doesn't?

Alrighty then.



No context......

You are referring to a case prosecutors declined to pursue 10 years ago? What new evidence came to light to prosecute now?



posted on Aug, 9 2018 @ 03:55 AM
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a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

What do you expect in a den of thieves? Honor?



posted on Aug, 9 2018 @ 03:56 AM
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a reply to: ErrorErrorError

Over four thousand times.



posted on Aug, 9 2018 @ 09:03 AM
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originally posted by: Boadicea

I once believed that too. Rule of law and all that. But I've come to believe that attitude feeds the problem. Common law is an integral part of the foundation of law. If we do not prosecute everyone for the "crime", then we prosecute no one for the "crime."

In addition to that, if we choose to selectively prosecute the crime, then we should just take it off of the books if prosecutors aren't willing to do it to everyone.


I can see the virtue in some such deals, although I would prefer reduced sentencing, as opposed to immunity... but in this case, both Gates and Manafort are scum. I don't see anything worse about Manafort's crimes than Gates' crimes. Or how it benefits the people.

I think that this was a bad deal--I'm certain that the government expected more than what they're getting. Deals can always be revoked at any time if the witness isn't holding up their end of the bargain.



posted on Aug, 9 2018 @ 09:17 AM
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originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

What do you expect in a den of thieves? Honor?


I don’t know, but people still donate to Hilary?



posted on Aug, 9 2018 @ 09:24 AM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey


In addition to that, if we choose to selectively prosecute the crime, then we should just take it off of the books if prosecutors aren't willing to do it to everyone.


Excellent suggestion! Now I'm a little mad at myself for not thinking that myself...


I think that this was a bad deal--I'm certain that the government expected more than what they're getting.


I wondered about that myself. Because this is not working out well for the prosecution... at all. It may just be false pride that doesn't want to let the case go... but this circus in the court sure can't be doing his pride much good either. I really believe that the ONLY reason Manafort is being prosecuted (read: persecuted) is because they thought he would flip on Trump. They probably never thought it would go this far, and they just didn't know when to give up the ghost.


Deals can always be revoked at any time if the witness isn't holding up their end of the bargain.


That's good to know. It will be very interesting to see how the prosecution responds to Gates' piss poor testimony -- as in actual legal recourse, not just talking trash.



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