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University finds prominent astrophysicist Lawrence Krauss grabbed a woman’s breast

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posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 01:03 PM
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a reply to: Krakatoa


It also should not be up to a 3rd party that was not directly involved to decide for you either, should it?


I understand what you're saying but I'm not so sure about that. Sometimes we do have a responsibility to stop bad people doing bad things even when they're not doing it to us.

If someone bonks me on the head and robs my unconscious body, should witnesses step in? Or just leave it up to me to decide?

If gangbangers commit a driveby shooting and the victims are too afraid of retaliation to speak up, should other witnesses step up? Or should they stay out of it because they weren't directly involved?

If I see someone breaking into my neighbor's house through a window while they're sleeping, should I call and warn them? Should I yell at the perp and scare him off? Or call the cops? Or should I just leave it to them to decide?

We also know that this isn't the only woman so victimized. If women know he victimizes women this way, they have every reason to worry that he will do the same to them. They do have a vested interest in stopping him. Especially if he is in a position of power and authority.




posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 01:09 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Krakatoa


It also should not be up to a 3rd party that was not directly involved to decide for you either, should it?


I understand what you're saying but I'm not so sure about that. Sometimes we do have a responsibility to stop bad people doing bad things even when they're not doing it to us.

If someone bonks me on the head and robs my unconscious body, should witnesses step in? Or just leave it up to me to decide?

If gangbangers commit a driveby shooting and the victims are too afraid of retaliation to speak up, should other witnesses step up? Or should they stay out of it because they weren't directly involved?

If I see someone breaking into my neighbor's house through a window while they're sleeping, should I call and warn them? Should I yell at the perp and scare him off? Or call the cops? Or should I just leave it to them to decide?

We also know that this isn't the only woman so victimized. If women know he victimizes women this way, they have every reason to worry that he will do the same to them. They do have a vested interest in stopping him. Especially if he is in a position of power and authority.


I disagree that any of those circumstances are comparable, and therein lies the rub.
It seems that nowadays it is actually valid to compare extremes like this.

Sorry to disagree with your examples when I kind of agree with your point, in a way but here we are.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 01:17 PM
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It was Krauss' fault for grabbing a woman's breast. What makes him think he can do that?



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 01:19 PM
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a reply to: Jonjonj


I disagree that any of those circumstances are comparable, and therein lies the rub.
It seems that nowadays it is actually valid to compare extremes like this.

Sorry to disagree with your examples when I kind of agree with your point, in a way but here we are.


Okay... but in what sense are they not comparable? I tried to use examples of witnessing a crime before, during and after the fact. How is this different?



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 01:20 PM
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originally posted by: Words
It was Krauss' fault for grabbing a woman's breast. What makes him think he can do that?


Nothing probably. What makes you think you can converse on the internet?

Perhaps misunderstanding?



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 01:22 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Jonjonj


I disagree that any of those circumstances are comparable, and therein lies the rub.
It seems that nowadays it is actually valid to compare extremes like this.

Sorry to disagree with your examples when I kind of agree with your point, in a way but here we are.


Okay... but in what sense are they not comparable? I tried to use examples of witnessing a crime before, during and after the fact. How is this different?


I have to be honest, given the response of the victim I don't consider this a crime.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 01:22 PM
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originally posted by: Jonjonj

originally posted by: Words
It was Krauss' fault for grabbing a woman's breast. What makes him think he can do that?


Nothing probably. What makes you think you can converse on the internet?

Perhaps misunderstanding?


He accidentally grabbed her boob?



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 01:25 PM
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originally posted by: Words

originally posted by: Jonjonj

originally posted by: Words
It was Krauss' fault for grabbing a woman's breast. What makes him think he can do that?


Nothing probably. What makes you think you can converse on the internet?

Perhaps misunderstanding?


He accidentally grabbed her boob?


Probably not. He may have misread a signal, for which I am sure he is sorry now, eh?



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: Jonjonj



I have to be honest, given the response of the victim I don't consider this a crime.


I'm not sure it's technically a prosecutable crime either; and it happened in Australia, not here. At this point we're really only discussing a violation of ASU's sexual harassment policy.

But your comment makes no sense to me.

The response of victim doesn't determine if it's a crime or not. The laws on the books determine if it's a crime. Do you think she had already given him some kind of consent -- or at least reason to believe he had her consent?



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 01:31 PM
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This whole #metoo is crazy. I didn't know I had been assaulted at the drive-in all those years ago. We were taught to gently take their hand and hold it or move it if we were uncomfortable. I didn't know I was suppose to have PTSD, night mares and curl up into a ball of anxiety.

I can see calling out some of the have sex with me to get the job / keep a job. But Jesus, this scorched earth approach for guys being guys even if they are ass-hats is beyond me.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 01:32 PM
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This is ridiculous, so technically if anyone saw our President do one of his famous "grab 'em" maneuvers, even if the woman was ok with it, anyone who saw it could sue the President for harassment?



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 01:36 PM
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Slap him in the face and send him back to work.
Brouhaha over and dealt with.
Go find some new victims.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 01:39 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Jonjonj



I have to be honest, given the response of the victim I don't consider this a crime.


I'm not sure it's technically a prosecutable crime either; and it happened in Australia, not here. At this point we're really only discussing a violation of ASU's sexual harassment policy.

But your comment makes no sense to me.

The response of victim doesn't determine if it's a crime or not. The laws on the books determine if it's a crime. Do you think she had already given him some kind of consent -- or at least reason to believe he had her consent?


By taking away the victim's ability to decline to press charges? I mean you lost me here, what are you saying exactly?



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 01:42 PM
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originally posted by: Asktheanimals
Slap him in the face and send him back to work.
Brouhaha over and dealt with.
Go find some new victims.


I agree. the person that was actually touched dealt with it as an adult. Then, considered it over.

The definition of sexual harassment requires that the person be told directly (verbally or physically) that the behavior is unwelcome. Then,. and only then, if the behavior continues it is considered actual harassment.

However, the #MeToo movement (a movement which I agree with as it was originally intended) has been twisted to the extreme and emboldened 3rd parties to use their own brand of sexist hate to trash someone, anyone, as they see fit. Was it right for him to do that? Obviously not since she rebuffed him. However, did he respect that rebuffing or did he repeat the behavior after being told it was inappropriate? The answer to that is no, he did not continue. So it was not harassment. Yet, that woman was determined to force her own brand of justice upon him without being asked.

IMO, she should have just STFU and stayed out of it, then simply avoided him herself. Anything more is pushing an agenda.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 01:56 PM
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a reply to: Jonjonj


By taking away the victim's ability to decline to press charges? I mean you lost me here, what are you saying exactly?


Hmmmm...I think several issues are being confused here.

The "state" has already taken away our ability to decline to press charges -- at least in some places. Quite often, charges are filed as an offense against the "state," not necessarily the individual victim(s). And in large part because people were refusing to testify against the perp -- such as in gang shootings where witnesses/victims were afraid of retaliation, or wife beaters where the wife was afraid to testify against her husband (or took pity on him later).

And we're not discussing criminal charges in this instance anyway. We're talking about an investigation by ASU into possible violations of their sexual harassment policy. I would think the university has a vested interest in ensuring that their professors are not doing anything that could bring a lawsuit -- or even negative publicity -- to their institution. I'm thinking there are potential grants and projects and other considerations the university has to consider, not to mention civil lawsuits.

I hope that clarifies what I'm speaking to...

When you said you aren't sure he even committed a crime, were you speaking to the laws on the books? Or to whether the victim had given consent?

edit on 7-8-2018 by Boadicea because: spelling



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 02:00 PM
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a reply to: Bramble Iceshimmer


...this scorched earth approach for guys being guys even if they are ass-hats is beyond me.


Guys being guys? Wow. The guys I know and love would never grab a woman's breast like that. And the women I know and love would never consider it acceptable in any way for random guys to grab their breasts.

Maybe those men and women should wear signs for each other -- and leave the rest of us out if it!



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 02:05 PM
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a reply to: Krakatoa




I agree. the person that was actually touched dealt with it as an adult. Then, considered it over. 


Okay. But what about when it's a pattern of behaviour with a string of complaints? When several victims have handled it like an adult by filing a complaint instead of shrugging it off? When a third party felt in this instance it was clearly inappropriate and filed a complaint? What if it appears to be predatory behaviour and this instance is the best documented of several? Do we just ignore it and continue to expose our students and faculty to harassment, or rid ourselves of the liability?



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 02:09 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea


I'm not American. Where I live a woman can grab my arse and scream laughing with her friends and no harm done. Granted if it becomes an issue things will be said. I prefer my world where a bit of banter doesn't kill you.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 02:09 PM
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Well, they better take his star away, invalidate all his research and blacklist his contributions. Censorship is all the rage these days.
edit on 2018/8/7 by Metallicus because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 02:16 PM
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a reply to: Jonjonj

Okay. Gotcha. You refuse to say it outright, but you seem to think it's okay for folks to do what they will to other people... I much prefer a world where people respect other people and their persons and keep their hands to themselves.



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