University finds prominent astrophysicist Lawrence Krauss grabbed a woman’s breast

An investigation by Arizona State University (ASU) in Tempe concluded this week that high-profile astrophysicist and atheist Lawrence Krauss violated the university’s sexual harassment policy by grabbing a woman’s breast at a conference in Australia in late 2016.

“Responsive action is being taken to prevent any further recurrence of similar conduct,” ASU’s executive vice president and provost, Mark Searle, wrote in a 31 July letter to Melanie Thomson, a microbiologist based in Ocean Grove, Australia, who is an outspoken advocate for women in science. Thomson, who witnessed the breast-grabbing incident, received the investigative report from ASU’s Office of Equity and Inclusion (OEI) and shared it with Science.

In response to an email asking what specific actions the university is taking, an ASU spokesperson wrote: “Professor Lawrence Krauss is no longer director of Arizona State University’s Origins Project, a research unit at ASU. Krauss remains on administrative leave from the university. It is the policy of the university not to comment on ongoing personnel matters.”

Source: Science Magazine: University finds prominent astrophysicist Lawrence Krauss grabbed a woman’s breast

Now, is this behavior acceptable? That depends upon the persons involved and the situation. In this situation, the article states it was during the taking of a "selfie" with him at this conference. It was witnessed by numerous people at the time. As the actual woman involved stated herself to investigators in March,

She told them that “she did not feel victimized, felt it was a clumsy interpersonal interaction and thought she had handled it in the moment,” telling Krauss directly that his behavior was not OK. According to the report: “She also stated to the OEI investigator that the incident did not merit the man losing his career.”

So, to her, this was an issue she took care of herself, at that time, and she considered it over. However, it seems others that witnessed it (but not actually touched by him) are the instigators of this investigation. One of the most outspoken of them is Australian microbiologist Melanie Thomson who only witnessed the incident. She is leading the witch-hunt against him and is the one that filed the initial report!

Thomson first filed a complaint with ASU about the incident in July 2017. The university quickly concluded there was insufficient evidence to find that Krauss had violated ASU policy. But it reopened the probe in February, after publication of the BuzzFeed article, which described the incident in Australia, as well as several others. (Krauss offered an extensive rebuttal to the Buzzfeed article.)

“They should have believed me the first time,” Thomson says. “It’s ridiculous the amount of effort you have to go through to stop universities from just dismissing these cases. I have been traumatized by the process and I wasn’t even a victim.”

So, now just witnessing something that you decide is harassment (regardless of the "victim" not agreeing with you) is enough to file investigation charges. And, when rebuffed since the "victim" claimed it was considered taken care of at the time by herself, you can become traumatized by the process.

Let's all cry victimhood here....WTH is wrong with these people. If you are not directly involved, keep you nose out of it!

a reply to: Krakatoa

After watching this whole #MeToo movement play out, it seems that the end result (if not the intended purpose) is to address sexual improprieties from both extremes, and pretend like there's no middle ground.

If a guy pays a compliment to a woman -- even if in the crudest and most vulgar manner -- okay. Annoying maybe, but nothing that will keep me from going on about my business. If a guy tells a woman what he wants to do to her body, that's creepy and a little concerning. If he's willing to say it, is he willing to do it also? If a guy actually presumes to touch a woman's body, that goes beyond creepy and scary. It is a threat. You cannot trust him. He has already proven he will do what he will with no regard or respect for your person or will. Does that mean he's a brutal rapist? Not necessarily... but it's a huge red flag.

It is much like when you wake up and find an intruder standing over your bed... they've already broken trust. You know you cannot trust them. And at that point, you can use lethal force against that person with the blessings of the law.

Should a woman use lethal force against a man for touching her breast? No. But what is the appropriate response? Where is the middle ground? At one point does it cross an unacceptable line?

I'm no more impressed by those who want to blow it off than I am by those who want to lock him up and throw away the key. But the bottom line is that it's not up to men to tell women what they can and cannot do to us.

I want to disagree with you.

But after reading your OP twice. I'm not sure what you're angry about.

So I'm not sure what to be angry with you about.

the only girls complaining about this kind of stuff, seem to be pretty incel.
the late great jay thomas said, ive never met a feminist stripper.

of course not, a stripper is out having fun, drinking, partying, hooking up to worry about feminism.

the meanest groups around---
3. athiests
2. vegans
1. feminists

a reply to: dantanna

Really? 'Cause if some random guy touched my breast, my husband would be the one... um... complaining the loudest...

But it's only us girls? Us incels? Wow.

originally posted by: grey580
I want to disagree with you.

But after reading your OP twice. I'm not sure what you're angry about.

So I'm not sure what to be angry with you about.

I'm not so much angry as frustrated. The frustration is over, in this case, that someone that was not even touch, but just a visual witness, can instigate an investigation to trash a persons reputation. Even when the person that was the target feels they took care of the situation AT THE TIME, and it is a non-issue at that point. I wonder why does a 3rd party have more reason to start an investigation and get the press involved to trash a person when the primary person refuses to consider it a big deal?

Leave it alone. It if happens to you, then, escalate it....as you would have a valid reason.

Melanie Thomson is just another "buttinski" trying to impose her world view on others. The issue was handled by the victim but Melanie wants blood.

a reply to: Boadicea


'Just shut up and take it, that's what boobies are for!'

Paraphrased of course.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: dantanna

Really? 'Cause if some random guy touched my breast, my husband would be the one... um... complaining the loudest...

But it's only us girls? Us incels? Wow.

What would he do if you took care of it yourself at the time and you told him it was over and a non-issue? Would he still risk a legal assault charge at that point?

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Krakatoa

After watching this whole #MeToo movement play out, it seems that the end result (if not the intended purpose) is to address sexual improprieties from both extremes, and pretend like there's no middle ground.

If a guy pays a compliment to a woman -- even if in the crudest and most vulgar manner -- okay. Annoying maybe, but nothing that will keep me from going on about my business. If a guy tells a woman what he wants to do to her body, that's creepy and a little concerning. If he's willing to say it, is he willing to do it also? If a guy actually presumes to touch a woman's body, that goes beyond creepy and scary. It is a threat. You cannot trust him. He has already proven he will do what he will with no regard or respect for your person or will. Does that mean he's a brutal rapist? Not necessarily... but it's a huge red flag.

It is much like when you wake up and find an intruder standing over your bed... they've already broken trust. You know you cannot trust them. And at that point, you can use lethal force against that person with the blessings of the law.

Should a woman use lethal force against a man for touching her breast? No. But what is the appropriate response? Where is the middle ground? At one point does it cross an unacceptable line?

I'm no more impressed by those who want to blow it off than I am by those who want to lock him up and throw away the key. But the bottom line is that it's not up to men to tell women what they can and cannot do to us.

It also should not be up to a 3rd party that was not directly involved to decide for you either, should it?

a reply to: Krakatoa

I agree that the modern social media lynch mob mentality is dangerous.

But other factors to weigh in this case are:
This is not the only complaint against this guy
There is a sting of what seems like predatory behaviour
There are victims who DID complain
These accusations predate #metoo
The University is conducting an investigation, not social media

Wow, at a conference?

I wonder, what was the context?

Like on the stage, before everybody?

How much beer did they serve during lunch-time?
People tend to go overboard on the free refreshments at these conferences.

a reply to: Krakatoa

What would he do if you took care of it yourself at the time and you told him it was over and a non-issue? Would he still risk a legal assault charge at that point?

I'm not sure how to answer that question. If he was present and witnessed it, I seriously doubt I'd have a chance to say a word -- or in any way "handle it" -- before he reacted!

If he wasn't there and didn't witness the act, he would trust that I handled it appropriately. And if I felt I had properly handled it and it was over and done with, I might not even tell him. But if I thought there would be additional repercussions from it, then I'd let him know, and he'd let it play out accordingly.

And no, in case you're wondering, my husband would not be upset if I didn't tell him. He knows better than I that lots of men are pigs. And generally speaking, I don't tell him lots of things that I've taken care of already -- unless for some reason he needs to know. (And he likes it that way!)

Astrophysicist grabs boob x1.

Astrophysicists grab no boobs 3x10 to the power of 2.

Women are statistically safe from astrophysical boob grabbery.

I don't know what the big deal is. The professor probably thought it was like shaking hands with a colleague, since an atheist is a boob.

We have been heading this way for a long time, I remember when it was briefed in the military that if I tell a joke to my battle and we both find it funny but someone who over hears it is offended I can get in trouble.

I have zero clue on how to fight back against this phenomenon, seems like the actual victim acted like an adult handled it and moved on.

In my useless opinion it should not cost the guy his career, put him on probation sure no problem but in this instance it should be considered handled.