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Now the Trump administration wants to limit citizenship for legal immigrants

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posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 11:30 AM
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WASHINGTON — The Trump administration is expected to issue a proposal in coming weeks that would make it harder for legal immigrants to become citizens or get green cards if they have ever used a range of popular public welfare programs, including Obamacare, four sources with knowledge of the plan told NBC News. The move, which would not need Congressional approval, is part of White House senior adviser Stephen Miller's plan to limit the number of migrants who obtain legal status in the U.S. each year.


Well i think it could be a good move if it is drafted properly. It will definitely cause more division but i have always felt that removing free stuff from people coming here would be a better choice than intimidation tactics of detaining kids.

I would not make it retro active in all cases and would give exceptions for some cases where people are employed and already here but indeed anyone in the future should not have access to welfare in all cases.

I would not bother to ask me about details and your opinion at this point is just as valid as mine.imo




posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 11:34 AM
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a reply to: howtonhawky

Don't have time to read the link (but will later, after lunch), but it sounds okay with me.

Citizenship should be for producers, for the most part.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 11:37 AM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

yes i agree it is a good idea in theory but i am not sure if stephen miller can draft it in a manner that most would accept.

but there is always hope.

I think one giant point is if it will be retroactive or not.

i think it should only apply to those applying from this point forward.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 11:37 AM
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All I see is more Feeding his Base Flag Waving.

Look Here - - don't Look There.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 11:42 AM
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So how many immigrants are actually trying to become citizens anyway?

Do they really want to become permanent members of America or are they just working here until they want to return home?
That's not an immigrant.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 11:43 AM
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a reply to: Annee

yea more court rulings...
but if drafted properly it could avoid the legal challenges that last through the elections..

It is not a bad imo at this point to say anyone coming in is welcome to come here and work but not drain the system.

It will only work well if the charity of Americans is continued or increased. Help in many cases will still be needed and we are still human.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 11:45 AM
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originally posted by: Bluntone22
So how many immigrants are actually trying to become citizens anyway?

Do they really want to become permanent members of America or are they just working here until they want to return home?
That's not an immigrant.


Good point.

I say let em come and work but not seek a government tit.

jobs jobs jobs



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 11:45 AM
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If you take away all their free s***, half of them would be gone tomorrow. Go Trump!



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 12:00 PM
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Stephen Miller is merely the architect for the eventual removal of as many immigrants as he can. This dude is as rabidly anti-immigrant as you can possibly get.

By this logic, lets say someone who came here on the up-and-up, while waiting for paperwork used some service (totally legally I may add), and now retroactively can be punished for using something that wasn't harmful to their application at the time they used it.....

I'm bemused that there are so many people with a hate-hardon for immigrants (and are no longer afraid of couching that hatred behind merely the 'illegal' ones).



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 12:05 PM
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originally posted by: Wayfarer
I'm bemused that there are so many people with a hate-hardon for immigrants .....


Just common sense. More hungry mouths are never popular, especially when many at home are lacking.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 12:12 PM
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a reply to: Wayfarer

Agree. Where is the humanity in this? The sick and the ill, whether citizens or not, still deserve care. It would be welcome for the private sector to get involved to aid those who can't get healthcare. But, as caring Americans, we can't refuse those in need. It's un American.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 12:16 PM
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originally posted by: starviego

originally posted by: Wayfarer
I'm bemused that there are so many people with a hate-hardon for immigrants .....


Just common sense. More hungry mouths are never popular, especially when many at home are lacking.


But they are being punished for something that is retroactively being made a punishable offense. Does hatred for immigrants trump moral application of jurisprudence?

Would you be ok if arrested for a life sentence for enjoying Pepsi (after yesterday making drinking or ever having drunk Pepsi an offense worth of a life sentence)?
edit on 32pm18fpmTue, 07 Aug 2018 12:17:39 -0500America/ChicagoTue, 07 Aug 2018 12:17:39 -0500 by Wayfarer because: (no reason given)

edit on 32pm18fpmTue, 07 Aug 2018 12:17:50 -0500America/ChicagoTue, 07 Aug 2018 12:17:50 -0500 by Wayfarer because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 12:21 PM
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I am not a lawyer, but this would appear to be an ex post facto action.

From Wikipedia

“An ex post facto law (corrupted from Latin: ex postfacto, lit. 'out of the aftermath') is a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences (or status) of actions that were committed, or relationships that existed, before the enactment of the law.”

“Ex post facto laws are expressly forbidden by the United States Constitution in Article 1, Section 9, Clause 3 (with respect to federal laws)....”

Stephen Miller is not real good at coloring inside the lines of constitutionally. If this goes forward, expect an instantaneous challenge on constitutional grounds. This may not even be a serious attempt to change the policy; just a way of whipping up Trump’s base before the mid-terms.

a reply to: howtonhawky



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 12:36 PM
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Sure are a lot of Native Americans here on ATS. What tribe were your parents/grandparents from?
edit on 7-8-2018 by TXRabbit because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 12:43 PM
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originally posted by: TXRabbit
Sure are a lot of Native Americans here on ATS. What tribe were your parents/grandparents from?


The tribe the casino owners took the land from.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 01:06 PM
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They already have rules with taking things like welfare while the person is applying for citizenship. My son in law has never got assistance, but my daughter and their kids have gotten benefits, they are citizens and qualify. I do not know how it is in different states though.

I hear that in some states, the illegal immigrants do get benefits, but not here. I mean, they can lie and talk people working for social services into bending some rules I suppose, but I do not know of any cases of that happening for sure.

I wonder what difference it will make under this new policy they are looking at, it does not really seem much different.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 01:47 PM
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a reply to: howtonhawky

Obviously one of the biggest problems with Open Borders is that people stream into the US to get free stuff. To the extent to which more free stuff is made available, the costs of the programs soar as more people stream into the US.

About all Trump can do is try to limit the damage done but at the end of the day (his Administration), the Leftist Dems will come to power and up the ante on free stuff to anyone who can cross the border.

This has been going on for a long, long, time.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 01:55 PM
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originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: howtonhawky

Obviously one of the biggest problems with Open Borders is that people stream into the US to get free stuff. To the extent to which more free stuff is made available, the costs of the programs soar as more people stream into the US.

About all Trump can do is try to limit the damage done but at the end of the day (his Administration), the Leftist Dems will come to power and up the ante on free stuff to anyone who can cross the border.

This has been going on for a long, long, time.


This is only a portion of the whole though. The cost soars because as folks come to America we're rabidly thwarting them from becoming citizens and paying into the system fully via taxes, then we complain how they don't contribute to the service that we feel they're 'steeling' from us.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 01:57 PM
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a reply to: howtonhawky

Read the story--I haven't changed my original opinion that this could be a good thing.

There is a major difference between being a green-card holder with permanent residency and being a citizen, and as I noted, citizenship should only be granted for immigrants of the absolute highest standing. Yes, that's just an opinion, but I don't see why a nation would rush to make people reliant on taxpayer subsidies naturalized citizens.

We should not, as a nation, want to allow in burdens to the system--we should want people who will start shifting the scales the other way.

That doesn't mean that others cannot come here, work, be students, and even be granted permanent residency, but American citizenship is a step far above the rest, and if you have been a drag on the system, regardless of circumstances, becoming a citizen SHOULD be very difficult for you.

With all of that said, the citizenship process still needs to be revamped and streamlined as much as possible--we should want the producers who have a desire to become citizens to be able to do so much more efficiently than now.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 02:07 PM
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a reply to: Wayfarer

To some degree.
To a far greater degree they don't pay taxes because they get paid by employers, (typically contractors) in cash at the end of a day's labor. Most all of this falls on the Government's incompetence and the greed of the employers.

But hey, I"m over the Open Borders fight. You like your Open Borders, you can keep your Open Borders. One thing's for certain, the Open Borders program undermines the legitimacy and sovereignty of the US government and erodes commitment and/or loyalty to said Government, its institutions and its legal system (laws). And freebies to the immigrants doesn't create any "loyalty", it simple creates a sense of entitlement. As a result, one thing's for certain, the Open Borders policy isn't about Nation Building.



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