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A Vietnam Vet Killed An Intruder Who Tried To Strangle His Grandson, Then Police Shot Him

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posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 09:44 AM
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Chief Metz says his officers never received a description of the intruder.


Sounds about right. Our society has become half-#ssed in most work related situations.




posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 09:54 AM
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a reply to: Scrutinizing

I hope you realize you have made a strawman here.

Unions have the power to create police procedure legislation through lobby. When the procedures go poorly and reoccurring problem patterns occur, qualified immunity masks over the negligence.

Qualified immunity is not the issue. It's what allows unions to lobby for what are known problems like not being physically ready for confrontation to go without proper scrutiny because there is no legal recourse to stop bad behaviour.

Which means leadership and community support are central issues.

When people support police and better training they seldom do in reality. Most people have no idea how bad some of these jobs are and how little they are paid.

If you believe I am anti police you have no idea what you are reading.

Domestic response training is not adequate in many units. If you are unwilling to examine actual statistical data on how unhealthy the policing job has become you aren't pro police or pro citizen and constitution. More police die of stress and out of shape related heart disease than anything else. That is a terrible statistic for people dealing with arguing spouses with guns or B and E's in stand your ground states.

Like I said when you see good police forces you say good leadership and community support. You don't see officers trying out some poorly execute Jiu-jitsu on a guy selling loose cigarettes.

When you pay guys peanuts to deal with scum it's a sure fire way to create resentment and lack of attention to duty.

No where in the Constitution do we hear "poorly trained militia". I think the founders understood the power of armed authority.
edit on 7-8-2018 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 10:00 AM
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I don't really know what you whiners are thinking, in the first place. It's like you think you should be getting the 6 Million Dollar Man, on what your penurious rears are willing to pay a policeman, pay somebody putting their life on the line, so you can live to whine, another day, from your Lazy Boy? Maybe they should just wait an hour or so to respond to those 911 calls, avoid all the complications, wait until the bodies settle, until no ingrate is left that can hold a gun, or the malefactor has moved on to the home of a whiner, new meat, that doesn't like the police any more than he does. You can maybe sing Kumbaya with Ted Bundy, before he wrings your neck like a chicken, shows you what some lack of immunity is all about.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 10:04 AM
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originally posted by: Scrutinizing
I don't really know what you whiners are thinking, in the first place. It's like you think you should be getting the 6 Million Dollar Man, on what your penurious rears are willing to pay a policeman, pay somebody putting their life on the line, so you can live to whine, another day, from your Lazy Boy? Maybe they should just wait an hour or so to respond to those 911 calls, avoid all the complications, wait until the bodies settle, until no ingrate is left that can hold a gun, or the malefactor has moved on to the home of a whiner, new meat, that doesn't like the police any more than he does. You can maybe sing Kumbaya with Ted Bundy, before he wrings your neck like a chicken, shows you what some lack of immunity is all about.



These are the exact type of statements that keep things where they are.

Between these types of statements and the people who call police scum and everything they do is racist the actual discussion never takes place of how to fix the mass of problems we face as a society and as police officers.


If you think you are propolice by supporting obese officers "because they lay their lives on the line" you don't get that their partner who is fit has to lay his life on the life twice as badly now.

Like firearms accidents cleaning up procedural error is not whining.

Edit.

Police training and screening for domestic response calls saves officers lives, I don't know that this deptime doesn't have it, but it seems they don't from a general over view.

Not sure how people can support police killing innocent people and not question if procedure and policy are creating unnecessary issues.

edit on 7-8-2018 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 10:06 AM
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a reply to: Scrutinizing

Or maybe they should simply train their officers accordingly, else they are not Police, but simply idiots with a badge and gun.

Part of the problem as opposed to a solution or deterrent.

Tell you this as well a healthy measure of psychological screening should also be at play where Police are concerned.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 10:07 AM
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originally posted by: luthier

I hope you realize you have made a strawman here.

Qualified immunity is not the issue.


First, you say qualified immunity is the issue, and now qualified immunity is not the issue, even talking scarecrows or the Wizard of Oz, now. I would rather be the Tin Man, if we're going to get all distorted, non-sequitur and go down the rabbit hole, as usual.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 10:09 AM
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a reply to: luthier

Well they are indeed scum when they kill veteran OAPs simply protecting their family, or do you disagree?



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 10:13 AM
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originally posted by: Scrutinizing

originally posted by: luthier

I hope you realize you have made a strawman here.

Qualified immunity is not the issue.


First, you say qualified immunity is the issue, and now qualified immunity is not the issue, even talking scarecrows or the Wizard of Oz, now. I would rather be the Tin Man, if we're going to get all distorted, non-sequitur and go down the rabbit hole, as usual.


Perhaps you should first of accept an explanation of what you misunderstand, and second would find I actually said the combination 9f unions and qualified immunity create an accountability problem.

By the way I have trained with officers for more than a decade in grappling. The good ones who stay sharp and take their job seriously. Even without amazing pay. Had one in my wedding.

I would say you don't really understand the nature and responsibility in armed authority. We have strayed pretty far from the founding ideas of freedom.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 10:17 AM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: luthier

Well they are indeed scum when they kill veteran OAPs simply protecting their family, or do you disagree?


I disagree. Who knows what the situation is personally. I know if I was called to shots fired and I had a sidearm that is probably garbage with heavy weighted trigger my chances of getting shot are pretty high.

It's a bad situation. I don't know if being hired to do a job you aren't qualified for is the fault of an employee.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 10:20 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: 727Sky

I want to see the evidence / video police couldnt release before forming my opinion.

If a person has never been in this type of situation then they should think twice and get all the facts before suggesting the police did something wrong.




You know if the video made it look good for the police it would already be released..



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 10:21 AM
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I don't know if being hired to do a job you aren't qualified for is the fault of an employee.


Don't apply. It is part of the reason so much is screwed up. People in positions that they cannot fulfill the duties.

Now that work is just a paycheck, what is to be expected though.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 10:21 AM
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originally posted by: luthier

We have strayed pretty far from the founding ideas of freedom.


You mean like Tommy Jefferson, boinking one of his slaves? I'd prefer to simply say people have strayed, and leave it at that.

Folks, all that aside, I don't mean to get all practical on you or anything, but this could save your bedeviled mind some day: you see a policeman, just put the damned gun down, like you've seen 10,000 times on the tube.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 10:24 AM
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a reply to: 727Sky

All I can say is "good grief". This keeps up and people will start shooting the cops before the cops can shoot them! This does not bode well for the future of police/civilian interactions!



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 10:26 AM
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a reply to: 727Sky

Seems to me the best way to handle these situations anymore would be after you kill the idiot drag their body out to the street and let someone else call the police.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 10:27 AM
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a reply to: roadgravel

I agree partly. But if I hire plumbers to fix my apartment units roofs, I would say there is plenty of blame for the employer as well.

To take it further if the building code allowed the plumbers to get the inspector to sign off on bad work it's even worse.

Policing is not something we really want to negate. They have all the money in the world for certain equipment some they dont need, because of contracts with defense and government, and no money for some crucial things.


It's really quite a mess in some places. Others do very well and have community support.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 10:32 AM
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originally posted by: Scrutinizing

originally posted by: luthier

We have strayed pretty far from the founding ideas of freedom.


You mean like Tommy Jefferson, boinking one of his slaves? I'd prefer to simply say people have strayed, and leave it at that.

Folks, all that aside, I don't mean to get all practical on you or anything, but this could save your bedeviled mind some day: you see a policeman, just put the damned gun down, like you've seen 10,000 times on the tube.


Lol, a red herring to the strawman....

Guess what rambo, an elderly vet who has had to deal with his demons shoots a man strangling his grandson he may be in shock.

I know you would have handled it differently being so practical, unfortunately this senior citizen was probably in shock.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 10:50 AM
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originally posted by: luthier

Lol, a red herring to the strawman....

Guess what rambo, an elderly vet who has had to deal with his demons shoots a man strangling his grandson he may be in shock.

I know you would have handled it differently being so practical, unfortunately this senior citizen was probably in shock.


Katy bar the door, that sure puts everything in a new light! Next time the dude has a lethal weapon that could mean your wife and children get a flag, in your absentia, like the last hundred psycho meatheads who decided it was a good idea to get some shots off and cool to die with their boots on, the officer should stop and render psychoanalysis, first? You’re already only paying him the doctor’s country club dues.The fact remains, the man could have believed flying weasels from Saturn were ripping away his flesh, but he still had a gun he would not put down, and there's seldom any time to consult Freud, in these situations.

I’ll bet you’ve won every football game you lost, come Monday, too, a game played in a stadium, a thousand miles away.

Anyway, I like herring.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 11:01 AM
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Tough man.... in the melee mental strategy.....ya gotta confirm threat indoors is down then ease outdoors to move away from the intruder groups target......maybe just one.....but look in for helper intruders to clear out.....as ya get the fam outdoors by the perimeter......on public view.......maybe all hold hands and exit behind the guy clearing

Then lay the pistola at the feet or so......and hug each other till others approach to remedy the call or the noises the next door people heard

The vet.......A HERO.....As a combat commander
I salute


edit on 7-8-2018 by GBP/JPY because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-8-2018 by GBP/JPY because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 11:06 AM
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I think the dispatcher should get an award for his fine work.



posted on Aug, 7 2018 @ 11:08 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra



If a person has never been in this type of situation then they should think twice and get all the facts before suggesting the police did something wrong.


The police clearly did SOMETHING wrong or this man would be alive. I am not saying the officer necessarily needs to be prosecuted, but the result is bullcrap.




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