Trump acknowledges purpose of meeting with Russian lawyer

It must kill you guys to see the country doing so well..

Oh how you want the USA to fail..

a reply to: notsure1

Many actually do.

originally posted by: Swills

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: Kharron

Trump is becoming more and more unhinged with each tweet. It’s amazing to see so many people recently being taken down because they wrote something terrible on Twitter, Roseanne, James Gunn, but Trump continues to be immune to this phenomenon. Well, maybe that is until now, NYT: Mueller looking through Trump's tweets.

Why is this news? And why do you sound so excited?

why is he always immune to any criticism from Trump supporters? It's always deflection or dismissal with that camp.

Just wanted to jump back in and let you know that I do agree with your assessment. His diehard supporters (including my parents) are nothing short of delusional and they're going to praise him when he disarms half of our combat veterans.

a reply to: vinifalou

Suuuuuure he did.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: vinifalou

Suuuuuure he did.

Yes. Obama did.

You may want to keep your blinders on, but Obama is dirty. He's bad and partisan.

He does not want what is best for the people of America, he just wanted more government and more control.


Obama was a bad man.

The meeting was a setup by someone, the person giving the speech had nothing to do with information about Hillary. Someone backing the Democrats set up the trump campaign to use to discredit Trump. That is what I see, the Trump people were not very smart. They fell for the bait.

The OP reference tweet does not really say what the box below says. He does not admit anything as said below, but some delusional person can twist his words if they desire. I think people all over this country are reading things into what they are seeing that is not what is being said or written.

This happened throughout my lifetime, I have seen it lots over the years. But the last three years or so the delusion is getting way worse, more people are being effected, they have lost their ability to reason lately. It has to be the meds or something in diet that could dampen people's intelligence that much. Maybe it is partly the fluoride in the water, the aluminum in the vaccines, and all the meds that block acetylcholine like antidepressants. Everyone just eat more eggs and stop drinking the water, they keep telling people to drink ten glasses a day, that is a lot of fluoride.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Annee

Of course why go by actual facts, such as where people stand on issues.

I know my own experiences.

I've been online and in forums since 1999.

I've seen what's happened on ATS.

The type of "Facts" you speak of depends greatly on who is gathering them and for what purpose.

a reply to: kurthall

There is no lie. He's acknowledged the purpose of this standard political meeting for over a year now.

There is absolutely nothing criminal about what he did. Nothing whatsoever.

He didn't lie under oath or to federal investigators
He didn't engage in any sort of unlawful conspiracy (its not a crime to receive information)
He didn't break a single law in the private meeting, nor did his son.

..and it was a *private* meeting conducted while he was a private citizen - hence, it is no one but their business.

Just because you don't like Russians doesn't mean he isn't allowed to associate with Russians. This is a free country, last I checked. I don't blame him, especially since they supposedly had useful dirt to help derail Hillary (which is exactly what she was attempting to do with the Russians AND the Brits)

a reply to: Annee

No, it doesn't. That's your cop out, please feel free to cite conflicting facts that show Democrats have not become more liberal. Oh hey you can't, 20 years ago a self admitted socialist would have no chance to win, she does now.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: vinifalou

Suuuuuure he did.

Compared to the other things Obama did is it so surprising?

According to Sen. Carl Levin, who helped to craft this bill, not only did the President want the power, this administration was the one who demanded the power to detain U.S. citizens indefinitely be placed inside the bill

www.fox19.com...

Obama Objects To Whistleblower Protections In NDAA

www.huffingtonpost.com...

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: Kharron

Assuming the opponent refered to was HRC, would information gathering be illegal? What if the information sought had to do with the Uranium 1 deal?

It doesn't matter what the 'dirt' was or who the target was. The act of gathering information about your opponent - "opposition research" or dirt or whatever you want to call it is, in and of itself, NOT illegal.

That opposition research is however a "thing of value" under 52 USC 30121 and therefore it IS illegal for foreign governments or nationals to donate that 'research' and it is illegal to solicit or accept donations of 'research' from foreign governments or nationals.

It is also illegal to conspire to violate any Federal Law, including this one.

FIRST: unauthorized communication with foreign governments IS ILLEGAL: 18 U.S. Code § 953.

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

This section shall not abridge the right of a citizen to apply, himself or his agent, to any foreign government or the agents thereof for redress of any injury which he may have sustained from such government or any of its agents or subjects.

The Russian purpose for the meeting was specifically to conspire to undermine the Magnitsky Act (remember: Russia's response to Magnitsky was to stop child adoptions, thus the discussion of child adoptions in the noise about the meeting).

This act specifically bars UNAUTHORIZED citizens from negotiating with foreign governments - the Constitution reserves that function to the President, and campaign officials are not the President.

Trump Jr. has admitted to this conspiracy under oath (after first perjuring himself about it).

Trump Sr. has just twitted acknowledgement that his son committed this crime.

SECOND: a foreign national, donating anything of value to a Federal, State, or Local campaign IS ILLEGAL: 52 USC 30121: Contributions and donations by foreign nationals

§30121. Contributions and donations by foreign nationals
(a) Prohibition

It shall be unlawful for-

(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make-

(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;

(B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or

(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or...

Trump Jr. has admitted, under oath, that the meeting was initiated by the Russians who wanted to donate something value, specifically "opposition research" to the campaign.

Trump has just admitted that the specific purpose of the meeting (from the Trump campaign side) was to obtain something of value (campaign opponent intelligence - dirt).

THIRD: soliciting, accepting, or receiving anything of value for a Federal, State, or Local campaign IS ILLEGAL

(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.

Trump Jr. has admitted, under oath, that the purpose of the meeting was to solicit some thing of value, specifically "opposition research".

Trump Sr. has just admitted his son conspired to commit this crime.

These simple facts have been pointed out over and over and over, and from the very beginning, in response to questions like yours "what is the crime?" or "what is illegal about gathering opposition research" or "collusion is not a crime". Well collusion is conspiracy and conspiracy to violate Federal Law is a crime, and both the President and his son have admitted that they conspired to violate those Federal Laws pointed out above.

a reply to: Kharron

You're assuming the Russians offered help to Trump for nothing in return. Let's assume they are not so altruistic, just for a moment.

I assume they asked for money, and even if they did ask for something more, the deal went no where and no dirt was gained from that meeting, so I really fail to see how it is at all relevant. So Don jr had a meeting where he tried to get some political dirt on his opponent as any good operator would, not it's some vast conspiracy which you guys seem to have latched onto... honestly just give it a rest.

a reply to: Kharron

52 USC 30121: Contributions and donations by foreign nationals

CRS Reports & Analysis Legal Sidebar Foreign Money and U.S. Elections

Recently, questions have arisen regarding how federal law restricts the involvement of foreign nationals in U.S. political campaigns. This Sidebar provides an overview of the prohibitions on foreign money under federal campaign finance law.

Prohibition on Contributions and Expenditures

The Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA) generally prohibits foreign nationals from directly or indirectly donating or
spending money in connection with any U.S. election. A foreign national is defined to include a foreign government, a
foreign political party, and a foreign citizen, excepting those holding dual U.S. citizenship and those admitted as a
lawful permanent resident of the U.S. (i.e., a “green card” holder). Specifically, the law prohibits foreign nationals from
directly or indirectly making a contribution “or other thing of value” in connection with any U.S. election; or a contribution or donation to a political party. It is important to note that any communication, such as a political
advertisement, that is made in coordination with a candidate’s campaign or political party is considered an in-kind
contribution and may be similarly treated as a contribution. In addition, FECA prohibits the knowing solicitation,
acceptance, or receipt of contributions from foreign nationals.

a reply to: Mach2

52 USC 30121: Contributions and donations by foreign nationals

CRS Reports & Analysis Legal Sidebar Foreign Money and U.S. Elections

Prohibition on Contributions and Expenditures

The Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA) generally prohibits foreign nationals from directly or indirectly donating or
spending money in connection with any U.S. election. A foreign national is defined to include a foreign government, a
foreign political party, and a foreign citizen, excepting those holding dual U.S. citizenship and those admitted as a
lawful permanent resident of the U.S. (i.e., a “green card” holder). Specifically, the law prohibits foreign nationals from
directly or indirectly making a contribution “or other thing of value” in connection with any U.S. election; or a contribution or donation to a political party. It is important to note that any communication, such as a political
advertisement, that is made in coordination with a candidate’s campaign or political party is considered an in-kind
contribution and may be similarly treated as a contribution. In addition, FECA prohibits the knowing solicitation,
acceptance, or receipt of contributions from foreign nationals.

a reply to: DBCowboy

The only reasonable response to this continual Gish-galloping gaslighting is to respond accurately to each gallop. However it is silly to paste the same detailed text over and over and over, and the Mods would probably frown at it. So I'll just give you the link to the law and a discussion of the law. Please take the time to review them or at least review my earlier posts.

I refer you to the actual law. Opposition Research is not illegal. Soliciting and/or accepting donations from foreign sources is ILLEGAL. Conspiracy to violate Federal law, including the election law is ILLEGAL. (and conspiracy is collusion).

52 USC 30121: Contributions and donations by foreign nationals

CRS Reports & Analysis Legal Sidebar Foreign Money and U.S. Elections

originally posted by: Whereismypassword
President Trump is very frustrated with this Russian incident, and it’s clouding over all the positive things

NK peace, accelerating economy and other stuff

They realy need to get him off Twitter, his aids are failing or they want him to fall and be replaced

You are right, of course, about him being frustrated and that he should have his phone taken away.

But what NK peace? There is no peace treaty, we are still at war with them. NK got the military training stopped without giving up anything of political consequence, so the coordination between the allies will be degraded if hostilities do break out. They have not even slowed down their nuclear or missile development program - they continue full steam ahead. The return of some Korean War era remains IS most definitely a positive result, but it is hardly the herald of peace breaking out. They have done that before.

The economy is not accelerating, but it is more or less maintaining the momentum that began under Obama - for now. GDP was good for 2018Q2, but it isn't going to last, sorry. Wage growth is stagnant, tariffs are going to kill foreign trade, the deficit is going to go nuclear. Trumps recession is just around the corner.

What other stuff? Kidnapping babies is positive stuff? Poisoning the atmosphere is positive stuff? Why the heck do you think he does this tweeting stuff anyway? It is specifically to cause distractions about all the crap he is trying to get away with.

originally posted by: UKTruth

Oh, and seeking opposition research is legal - from ANYONE.

The only reasonable response to this continual Gish-galloping gaslighting is to respond accurately to each gallop. However it is silly to paste the same detailed text over and over and over, and the Mods would probably frown at it. So I'll just give you the link to the law and a discussion of the law. Please take the time to review them or at least review my earlier posts.

I refer you to the actual law. Opposition Research is not illegal. Soliciting and/or accepting donations from foreign sources is ILLEGAL. Conspiracy to violate Federal law, including the election law is ILLEGAL. (and conspiracy is collusion).


52 USC 30121: Contributions and donations by foreign nationals

CRS Reports & Analysis Legal Sidebar Foreign Money and U.S. Elections

a reply to: Kharron

Since Donald Trump has become our 45th President , I am able to Pay my Bills again . I am making more Money again , I am Less Stressed out , and Confident of the Future . The One thing that I do not care a Rats Ahass about is this Non Story . America is becoming Great Again ! ................

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: Kharron

Assuming the opponent refered to was HRC, would information gathering be illegal? What if the information sought had to do with the Uranium 1 deal?

Not illegal and, if it is, then the foreign sourced for campaign fund payments dossier had damn sure better result in a criminal charges as well... which it hasn't. So...

The only reasonable response to this continual Gish-galloping gaslighting is to respond accurately to each gallop. However it is silly to paste the same detailed text over and over and over, and the Mods would probably frown at it. So I'll just give you the link to the law and a discussion of the law. Please take the time to review them or at least review my earlier posts.

I refer you to the actual law. Opposition Research is not illegal. Soliciting and/or accepting donations from foreign sources is ILLEGAL. Conspiracy to violate Federal law, including the election law is ILLEGAL. (and conspiracy is collusion).


52 USC 30121: Contributions and donations by foreign nationals

CRS Reports & Analysis Legal Sidebar Foreign Money and U.S. Elections

The Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA) generally prohibits foreign nationals from directly or indirectly donating or spending money in connection with any U.S. election. A foreign national is defined to include a foreign government, a foreign political party, and a foreign citizen, excepting those holding dual U.S. citizenship and those admitted as a lawful permanent resident of the U.S. (i.e., a “green card” holder). Specifically, the law prohibits foreign nationals from directly or indirectly making a contribution “or other thing of value” in connection with any U.S. election; or a contribution or donation to a political party.

Notice that the wording is 'contribution' and 'donation'. The wording does NOT exclude a campaign or party from CONTRACTING foreign companies to do research on their behalf. Are you suggesting that the Trump campaign 'contracted' the Russian Government to hack into the DNC and steal those eMails?

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: Swills

I thought you chaps had moved on from "collusion" as it is not illegal and were now using "conspiracy"?

'Collusion' and 'Conspiracy' are two words that mean the same thing, but 'collusion' has a softer connotation than 'conspiracy' precisely because the word 'conspiracy' is used in law. But make no mistake - they mean the same thing.

Edit: another simile I just heard: There is no law against 'stealing' either. But stealing is 'theft' and that is certainly illegal.

I think that 'collusion' was the popular term precisely because 'we' didn't necessarily have proof beyond a doubt - now that even the President has publicly admitted that it did in fact occur, we can call it by its legal name: conspiracy to violate Federal law.

Trump just said what his son said months ago - and that is news?

What is news is that Trump has finally just admitted that his son's actions amounted to conspiracy to violate Federal law, and which is the umpeenth change of story.

You realise there is absolutely nothing illegal with receiving information about an opponent - no matter who is providing it - right?

WRONG

I refer you to the actual law on the subject:

52 USC 30121: Contributions and donations by foreign nationals

CRS Reports & Analysis Legal Sidebar Foreign Money and U.S. Elections