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The Number Of Americans Living In Their Vehicles “Explodes”

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posted on Aug, 4 2018 @ 12:24 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

So what is the point of work then? To create wealth? To earn enough to support yourself or a family? To sell your soul and climb the corporate ladder? To have nice 'material' wealth massively beyond what it takes to provide food and shelter?

Do you define yourself by your job and salary? Is that why you look down on simple labor?

How do you create wealth? Are there other methods out there beyond manufacturing, mining or growing? Do most of the jobs in the USA simply push paper?

I find your condemnation kind of disgusting. Your types are exactly what we don't need more of. The sophisticated and highly educated that is smart enough not to get their hands dirty and steals the productivity from others with 'paper pushing' jobs.

Why do I need a career path? If it weren't for inflation, I should be able to save my money from a 'dead end' job and be able to retire but that dosen't seem possible anymore. It sure was possible not that long ago. Honest living with honest wages that actually created wealth instead of sucking off of the work of others. Then when I retire from this 'dead end' job, I will have none of the mental strain that comes from years of selling ones soul.

You must be very highly educated to have those types of views. Have you managed to completely squash that small nagging voice of reason?




posted on Aug, 4 2018 @ 01:51 PM
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originally posted by: ClovenSky
So what is the point of work then? To create wealth? To earn enough to support yourself or a family? To sell your soul and climb the corporate ladder? To have nice 'material' wealth massively beyond what it takes to provide food and shelter?

Do you define yourself by your job and salary? Is that why you look down on simple labor?


To be productive. To make the world a better place. To provide an outlet to make yourself a better person every day. Where I work, we have something of a corporate motto that we want people to leave the job every day at the end of their shift a better person than they were at the start of the shift.

To me, being a better person means being better at your job, being more experienced, being more efficient, being smarter, being a better problem solver, and so on.

If a job isn't providing that, it's not fulfilling their side of the deal.

I look down on simple labor because I don't think it's sustainable and I don't think it benefits people to perform it. Simple labor does not make a person better every day. Challenging labor does. Simple factory labor does not make a person tangibly better from one day to the next. There is no metric one can apply day in and day out where they can say they are x score smarter, or y% stronger, or z% better when the work isn't challenging. Without that challenge and continual improvement, your score as a person does not increase from day to day. Worse, your body degrades with age so if you do this long enough, not only do you stop treading water, but you go backwards.

The simple metric I look at, lets say you and you from one day ago are putting in on the same job. Future you should get that job 100% of the time by virtue of being a better potential employee.



I find your condemnation kind of disgusting. Your types are exactly what we don't need more of. The sophisticated and highly educated that is smart enough not to get their hands dirty and steals the productivity from others with 'paper pushing' jobs.


I don't push paper. I create software, my exact duties are something of a hybrid between lead programmer, technical artist, and software architect. My job is to make others more productive. The thing is, as someone on a manufacturing line, you should be doing that too. Part of that whole getting better every day thing. If your factory produces 100 units per week, you should know every step of the manufacturing process (not just your assembly line piece) enough and have enough of an engineering background that you can find efficiencies and make the next week produce 101 units, then 102, then 103. And continue to do this, each and every week making things better.

As far as pushing paper goes, some of those jobs are useful too. Large organizations have a lot of moving parts, and people are needed to coordinate those efforts.


Why do I need a career path? If it weren't for inflation, I should be able to save my money from a 'dead end' job and be able to retire but that dosen't seem possible anymore.


You've answered your own question. The barrier to entry and value of each job declines by the day. This puts a constant downward pressure on wages, which means you need a counter pressure of your own through increased effectiveness, or more niche knowledge/specializations in order to maintain or increase your wage. In an era of innovation, you can't simply rest on something you learned 50 years ago, you must continually advance your own worth.



You must be very highly educated to have those types of views. Have you managed to completely squash that small nagging voice of reason?


I think I'm very reasonable, see my signature.



posted on Aug, 4 2018 @ 01:52 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

This type of answer is all well and good. The problem comes in when there are many more key board punchers than there are keyboards to punch. As long as there are "automated" machines, there will be a need for some human body to repair and service them. It will not be a long time from today when A. I. will take over much of the coding and programming, and possibly some engineering, jobs. So then where will your work prospects go ??
Most of the work done at my mill have automatic aspects to them. However, there are many times during the day when these parts go off and the work must be done manually for a short time. The operators would like for this to never happen, but if it did not they would not be needed.
I have also done a good bit of construction work. Point being, a machine can be programmed to dig a ditch.,but it will be a long time before one will dig and clean out a ditch to the point of it being ready for concrete to be poured. This is the bases, or foundation work, for all that comes after it. You can design and engineer a building, or other systems as well as you like. But if the foundation is not done right it will not last. Look at much of the buildings in a lot of the third world countries. The go up quick but the also come down quick. Without the expertise of a good labor force everything else is a waste of time.
And all you key board punchers will be at home waiting for another air conditioned building to work in.



posted on Aug, 4 2018 @ 02:02 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

Economy is doing great sorry. I'm in the range you cited and never been better.



posted on Aug, 4 2018 @ 02:15 PM
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originally posted by: tinymind
As long as there are "automated" machines, there will be a need for some human body to repair and service them. It will not be a long time from today when A. I. will take over much of the coding and programming, and possibly some engineering, jobs. So then where will your work prospects go ??


I actually work with just that. I create software to assist with repair, service, and manufacturing. Part of that involves becoming an expert on every product I work on, so that I can properly build the software. In the two years I've been at the company I've become certified on more products than most of our technicians become certified on in an entire career. So I spend a lot of time with people who are essentially repairmen and installers.

I find that most of them have no ambition, they learn to service a couple of products, and rely 100% on that single company staying in business, and continuing to pay them, never improving themselves. Given a large part of my job involves building AR and VR products that allow anyone to self service a product for the majority of procedures... I know for a fact that these jobs are also at risk. They'll be gone before the manufacturing jobs are gone. I give it 10 years before 95% of service calls, and thus 95% of service jobs are eliminated. When it hits, it will hit hard and fast.

As far as AI and programming goes, it may or may not eventually happen. If it does, my job will be the least of societies issues, as in that situation almost everything will become automated nearly instantly. It would be extremely close to the singularity in terms of effect on labor.
edit on 4-8-2018 by Aazadan because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2018 @ 02:24 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

Well might I say hurray and good on you.

So your the guy who is writing the code for machines to follow in order to put everyone out of work.

This really is a noble thing you are doing. When we all retire and the companies just send us a weekly check, because they miss us so much, I will be glad I had this opportunity to correspond with you.

( I am proud to say there is not a sarcastic bone in my body. At least it doesn't show does it?)



posted on Aug, 4 2018 @ 02:35 PM
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originally posted by: tinymind
So your the guy who is writing the code for machines to follow in order to put everyone out of work.


Buggy whip manufacturers said something similar about the people who were building cars.

Reducing costs is a key component to an industry remaining globally competitive.

Don't like it? Then outsmart me, it's not hard to do, I spent 30 years with my nose buried in books to learn this... you spent 30 years getting dirty. Figure out how to do something I or someone like me can't figure out how to teach a machine to do. You've got the direct experience and the career putting things together. Leverage it.
edit on 4-8-2018 by Aazadan because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2018 @ 03:19 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Blaine91555
I think I've mentioned before the man I lease the house I'm in from is losing money due to the cost of property taxes and insurance here. He owns five houses and he's losing money on all of them. He raises rent, they sit empty. He tried to sell them at $100,000 below appraisal and no joy. The only interested people were the new crop of amateur house flippers.

Yeah, its certainly a complex issue for sure


Market price is what something will sell for. I think you've got a good case here that the appraisal is wrong.


He challenged to no avail. You see we have no income tax here or sales tax in Anchorage. One of the few recourse's the municipality has is property tax. Which is why I generally refer to the appraised price as artificial.

I have no doubt that property taxes are part of the snowball effect that drives many to have to live in their cars at times. Why families where the parents have jobs end up in their car, a tent or a camper of some sort.

Then we have the whole truism of property values being a tool to protect people who can afford grossly overpriced housing, from having neighbors who are in their opinion beneath them. Often its a case of prices being based only on how much money the people in the neighborhood have. You know, those people who fight tooth and nail to prevent affordable housing from being built anywhere near them. Can't have the person who keeps their car running or the person who builds their houses actually living near them, tainting things and driving their property values down.

It used to be hillsides were dirt cheap land considered of little value where a person could get a little bit of land for almost nothing. They are windy, hard to get to in the winter and nobody wanted to mess with it, so a person could build a little place there, put up with the inconvenience and have their own place on the fringe of town instead of renting. Now the hillsides are littered with high end homes and priced so high the occasional remaining cabin or trailer looks like cancerous growths and the inflated property taxes drive the last of the former blue collar residents out.

IMO inner cities exist by design. Local governments would never cop to it, but integration was never in the game plan. People living in their cars is an inevitable outcome of carefully planned strategies to segregate one class from another. Can't have a person with a ten year old heap in their driveway living in sight of the their million dollar home.

Blue collar neighborhoods are the future slums of America, while the elite neighborhoods are well kept and supported by the community and remain the stronghold of the self described elite. It's IMO by no means connected to any political ideology either as the inhabitants in the house on the hill are as likely to be progressive as conservative.

OK, sorry, I got started and .........



posted on Aug, 4 2018 @ 03:30 PM
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a reply to: Blaine91555

Blue collar neighborhoods have always been slums.

It's part of the definition of blue collar. The "working class" doesn't get nice things. The popular opinion used to be that they should be outright forbidden from ever buying property because they were too stupid to leverage it, as evidenced by the fact that they were too stupid to be working a higher paying job.

Blue collar workers have never had it good.



posted on Aug, 4 2018 @ 03:37 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Willtell

Economy is doing great sorry. I'm in the range you cited and never been better.


The thesis is about the macro level of society, not individuals.
The opportunity outlook for the general populace’s economic safety has been imperiled by the powerful who have used their influence over the politicians to stifle success for the general welfare of the population.



posted on Aug, 4 2018 @ 05:53 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

Everyone I know is doing better. I literally can't think of a single person I know doing worse.



posted on Aug, 4 2018 @ 06:13 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

Sounds like you are well on your way to living out of your car.






posted on Aug, 4 2018 @ 07:51 PM
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originally posted by: wdkirk
a reply to: Aazadan

Sounds like you are well on your way to living out of your car.





It could happen.



posted on Aug, 4 2018 @ 08:38 PM
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This has gone up probably because the amount of rideshare drivers. They practically live in their car.



posted on Aug, 4 2018 @ 08:58 PM
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originally posted by: Edumakated
People aren't sleeping in their cars because of lack of affordable housing or because the economy isn't doing well.

If you peel back the onion, I would bet you'll see a huge connection to the opioid crisis. In other words, people are sleeping in their cars because they can't hold a job down due to their drug addiction.
That may be the case in some instances but it certainly isn't the whole picture. A lot of people are doing this on THEIR own choice, this is also the reason for the tiny house boom, alternative homes ect...a lot of people believe in having less and living a simpler lifestyle...i.e having less is more. They also realized the bull# lie of the american dream. We have got to get out of this notion that someone is doing xyz just because we don't agree with their lifestyle choices. I know a couple people who live this lifestyle and they hold down good jobs and have the means to buy a house but choose not to be enslaved to debt...of course there are more ways to go about doing that but it works for them and who am I to question THEIR lifestyle. I also know a couple who do this so that they can spend their money on traveling and doing things other than paying rent or mortgage.
edit on 4-8-2018 by starlitestarbright because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-8-2018 by starlitestarbright because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2018 @ 11:46 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

Middle class is 200k per year? I make just over 182k a year, I have more disposable income to spend on absolutely stupid stuff than I know what to do with. That's with a full 401k investment, a few other investments, savings, and all of my bills. I legitimately almost impulse bought a $1700 TV today (with cash), but the only reason I didn't was because we were in my wife's car and not mine so no way to get it home. This is single income as well, my wife makes some money but not enough to even register in the grand scheme of things.

I want for absolutely nothing at all, if we want to go eat wherever we want we do, if I want to buy something silly I do, I can't even recall life being this easy from a financial standpoint at any point before this. If this is is still not even middle class, I can't wait until I finally hit middle class.

Edit to add: I live in a reasonably low cost of living city, so yes if I made this in SF or NYC I would be dirt poor, that being said if I lived in those areas where I work would accommodate that cost of living as well.
edit on 8/4/18 by Hypntick because: Edit



posted on Aug, 5 2018 @ 01:25 AM
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a reply to: Willtell

I lived in my vehicle for a while several years ago. I just got a 2015 Veloster Turbo and told myself I'd live in it if I need to. I think it's more common than people realize.
edit on 5-8-2018 by spacemanjupiter because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2018 @ 06:25 AM
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a reply to: Willtell

I think there are multiple things going on.

One is that we are transitioning to an international economy and people abroad are investing in property in the United States. This is one factor that is bringing up real estate prices sky high. Another is the tech boom, again attracting international talent and people migrating to particular cities. Those cities in particular have ridiculously escalating real estate prices.

Another factor for the west coast is that you have city/local governments that pay for one way bus and airplane tickets to transport homeless people to other states. Most naturally choose the warmer climates:

New York gives homeless people a one-way ticket to leave city

Bussed out How America moves its homeless

mayor defends one way ticket for homeless



posted on Aug, 5 2018 @ 06:35 AM
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a reply to: Hypntick

Well your case is unusual in that those type of salaries for the most part are made in cities where a cheapo house costs $1M and up and a one bedroom apt can rent for $3k.

The combination of that income and living in a small city/town and you're very wealthy.

I would correct his estimation and say that $80k-$100k is about middle class and you are still struggling if you have a family and mortgage.

A single person making $100k sees about 60-65% of his income after Federal, City/State taxes, Medicare and Social Security payments. That comes out to about $1150 a week. If your mortgage is $2000 a month, thats half your money right there before any other bills/expenses.



posted on Aug, 5 2018 @ 08:22 AM
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a reply to: Willtell

Rent keeps going up, the cost of a home keeps going up. Everything keeps going up. Wages don't seem to be keeping up. Haven't for quite some time. I often wonder if inflation isn't something TPTB pulled out of their arses. That way they have a reason to take more of your money while giving you less in wages.

I blame both parties and whoever is in charge of them for the debacle the country is in. They have both been in charge on and off and solving nothing. They just try to con you into voting for them with words with no actions to back them up.

We own our home. We don't use as a bank instead we look at it as a roof over our heads. We could easily buy something larger but why, who needs the debt. We may sell it when we retire and buy something in a warmer climate.



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