Any Advice for Helping an Alcoholic?

This post will not be popular. I expect to get flamed for it. I've read through every post here. So what do we have? A 30 year old man who is an alcoholic who lives with his parents. You are the parent of a friend of his and you want to help. I believe I have that part right so far. That's the basic issue. You're getting a lot of advice here on what should be done.

There's only one problem.

It's none of your business. I'm not just being flippant here. LEGALLY it's none of your business. You do not have the right to insinuate yourself into this person's life. You are not related to him. He doesn't have to talk to you. He doesn't have to listen to you. He doesn't have to do anything you suggest. Your options are limited. You can have a conversation with him if he agrees. That's about it. And you risk alienating him from you if you can't be persuasive enough to prevent it. I know you think of yourself as a good person for wanting to help him, and you're getting quite a lot of support from people here who are telling you the same thing. But the flip side of this coin is that you are interfering in another adult's life, which in any other context would be considered harassment. Tread very carefully here or this could backfire on you in a very unpleasant way.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

(Sorry to go slightly off-topic Boadicea but it may help you understand the dangers of just stopping if you didn't know)

All good and much appreciated -- thank you!

This is all very valuable to me. I'm going to have to understand this if I'm going to be able to help him go through this.

originally posted by: schuyler
This post will not be popular. I expect to get flamed for it.

Maybe it won't be popular... maybe you will get flamed for it... but not by me. I do appreciate it. You are bringing up very valid and important points.

It's none of your business. I'm not just being flippant here. LEGALLY it's none of your business. You do not have the right to insinuate yourself into this person's life. You are not related to him. He doesn't have to talk to you. He doesn't have to listen to you. He doesn't have to do anything you suggest. Your options are limited. You can have a conversation with him if he agrees. That's about it. And you risk alienating him from you if you can't be persuasive enough to prevent it. I know you think of yourself as a good person for wanting to help him, and you're getting quite a lot of support from people here who are telling you the same thing. But the flip side of this coin is that you are interfering in another adult's life, which in any other context would be considered harassment. Tread very carefully here or this could backfire on you in a very unpleasant way.

Very well stated. Very well taken. You're right. I can offer. He can refuse or he can accept. It's all up to him.

Thank you.

Personally, I think any sort of an "intervention" is the absolute WORST thing you can do to an alcoholic! You will never shame or coerce, or nag, or nanny, an alcoholic into sobriety! It has the exact opposite effect. It drives them deeper into their distant world of hiding and secrets.

Think about it...everyone you know loves to be in a position of being asked their opinion. Now think about a group of people all ambushing someone with the idea their opinion is "helping" someone. It's like the old saying about opinions...they're like a$$holes; everybody's got one and they all STINK!! None of these people are professionals, none of the know the right and the wrong things to say, but they all think their input is invaluable to the person being ambushed. It's treating someone like a child, and that's exactly how they will take it too!

All "interventions" do is humiliate people, and this is NO help at all to the person who truly needs it most. It only makes the people doing the intervening feel good about themselves.

Interventions drive people away, not bring them closer.

What if a group of family and friends were waiting for you at home one night and ambushed you about what underwear you wear or some other highly personal matter? And they wanted to keep telling you how they loved you, but continuing to humiliate you, over and over until you finally broke down. Would it make you want to be around them more next time, or would it make you avoid them? I think you know the answer.

ETA- I think if I were in that situation i'd probably never speak to those people ever again, certainly the person who organized such an attack aimed at shaming / humiliating me into doing something. I would be enraged.

a reply to: Boadicea

At times the best thing to do is nothing...…...I have a saying. " Some of the good things you do, does you no good". Criptic yes, but when dealing with an alcoholic, you'll understand soon enough. They lie. To you & to themselves. I've watch alcohol kill ones I love. I hate the stuff, the way it's pushed on society. The way it's targeted to those most vulnerable to it.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
Personally, I think any sort of an "intervention" is the absolute WORST thing you can do to an alcoholic! You will never shame or coerce, or nag, or nanny, an alcoholic into sobriety! It has the exact opposite effect. It drives them deeper into their distant world of hiding and secrets.

Think about it...everyone you know loves to be in a position of being asked their opinion. Now think about a group of people all ambushing someone with the idea their opinion is "helping" someone. It's like the old saying about opinions...they're like a$$holes; everybody's got one and they all STINK!! None of these people are professionals, none of the know the right and the wrong things to say, but they all think their input is invaluable to the person being ambushed.

All "interventions" do is humiliate people, and this is NO help at all to the person who truly needs it most. It only makes the people doing the intervening feel good about themselves.

Interventions drive people away, not bring them closer.

What if a group of family and friends were waiting for you at home one night and ambushed you about what underwear you wear or some other highly personal matter? And they wanted to keep telling you how they loved you, but continuing to humiliate you, over and over until you finally broke down. Would it make you want to be around them more next time, or would it make you avoid them? I think you know the answer.

You are totally wrong in your perception of interventions. That is what precisely helped my father finally get the help he needed. That and a letter from my mother’s attorney asking for a divorce if he didn’t do something about his problem.

Might not work for everyone, but interventions have been proven to work. My father had many years of sobriety after his intervention, and we were blessed to finally have a sober father , who spent much more time with his family and gave his grandchildren many fond memories.

I think the only person suffering of self grandiose thoughts is you FCD. You’re no expert on the topic either, obviously.

a reply to: Sheye

I've never seen one come even remotely close to working! 100% relapse. I refuse to do it. And, in one case it lead directly to a suicide of a friend of mine (LATER THAT SAME NIGHT!!)

So you're precisely right, I'm NOT an expert, and I've seen first hand how dangerous non-"experts" can be when they meddle around with serious health / psychiatric issues and have no idea what they're doing!!

Glad it worked on your poor ol' grandpa, but it doesn't work a lot more often than it does.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I don’t see anything wrong with people who deeply love someone, try and intervene in dangerous and troubling behaviour. I’m sure many alcoholics would prefer being approached with love and concern than have those loved ones dump on them negatively behind their back.

Yes, some alcoholics are a lost cause, and that boils down to their lack of courage and selfishness, to a large degree. No amount of loving concern will help an individual who willfully lets themselves destroy their lives with addictions.

Glad it worked on your poor ol' grandpa, but it doesn't work a lot more often than it does.

That was ^ quite condescending, but not at all surprising,coming from you.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Thank you. I needed to hear this exactly how you said it. I was already reluctant to do an intervention, and for a couple of the reasons you cited -- it's an ambush, and ganging up on him. I know I wouldn't like that. I never thought about the humiliation aspect, or how quickly good intentions can go too far.

But perhaps most crucial of all is that his success will come from a position of strength -- not weakness. He has to do it because he knows what an awesome person is and always has been and always will be inside of him.... not because he's such a craptastic person who's done such craptastic things. And he has to do it for himself. Not for anyone else. Once he does, he can make whatever amends to others that he needs to. But he needs to do for himself first and foremost.

Thank you.

originally posted by: openyourmind1262
a reply to: Boadicea

At times the best thing to do is nothing...…...

That may indeed be the case. It will be his choice. I can offer and then it's up to him. If he declines, then yes, the best thing to do is nothing.

At least until he says "yes."

a reply to: Sheye

Glad you liked it!

The OP asked for an opinion. AND, if you cared enough to read my first sentence you would see it said "Personally, I think...", which is a pretty good clue that an opinion is going to follow, dontcha think?

Don't like it? Tough!

a reply to: Boadicea

This is exactly the best and most positive approach...in my (humble) opinion.

You've been on the right track this whole thread. I just wanted to interject that as the subject of interventions has come up a couple times.

You have demonstrated the type of support which will truly help your friend (provided he wants help).

a reply to: Sheye

I don’t see anything wrong with people who deeply love someone, try and intervene in dangerous and troubling behaviour. I’m sure many alcoholics would prefer being approached with love and concern than have those loved ones dump on them negatively behind their back.

I'm so happy it worked for your grandfather, and I can see where it would in his situation, and others. But I also see where it can go very very wrong. I think it's going to be different for every individual and their particular situation.

For my friend, I think it would be a disaster. I think it would be too much for him. It would crush him. He's too weak right now in every way -- physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. He has nothing to draw upon. Not even anger. He needs to build on his strengths right now and the weaknesses will weaken in the process.

All this to say, you're not wrong. There just isn't a one-size-fits all cure here.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: NJE777

When they were kids, I used to smear cream cheese or peanut butter on celery for them... I can always do it again!

I think that's my best approach with him anyway is for me to make the most of the bonds we made in his childhood. That will be our greatest strength or resource I think. Perhaps if he knows that I still know him and love him as that person -- before all this -- and that he can still be that person, it will help him see that person inside too.

Or maybe I'm just talking crazy talk. I don't know.

This advice to yourself is the best I've read here and relates to another member's advice. Alcohol is not the only problem. There is also the hole he is trying to fill, and that hole is often created in childhood (or in some genetic way, or both). Reconnecting him to positive experiences in his childhood is psychologically a very good thing to do. This will effect his unconscious, which is mainly what is driving his behaviour.

Great intuition. If anyone in his circles is going to help him help himself, it will most likely be you.


soulwaxer

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: Boadicea

This is exactly the best and most positive approach...in my (humble) opinion.

You've been on the right track this whole thread. I just wanted to interject that as the subject of interventions has come up a couple times.

You have demonstrated the type of support which will truly help your friend (provided he wants help).

That gives me some confidence -- thank you! I knew I had to get my ducks in a row and know what I was doing going into this. My gut told me that if I screwed it up the first time, it would only make it that much worse for him. And I can't do that.

What you've given me -- and so many others -- is an insight into his mind and heart and soul that will be invaluable. Even more than sympathy and compassion, I have enough similar experiences that I can have actual empathy. And I hope and pray that comes across as no judgment as well. He also knows that I've always told him right along with my own kids that our mistakes don't matter nearly as much as what we do about it when we realize them. So I don't judge him and I hope he'll know that. I know he's in a helluva spot and doesn't want to be there but doesn't know how to get out of it. We've all been there. It just is what it is.

a reply to: Boadicea

And that's exactly what happened to my friend; they crushed him, crushed his already crippled soul. His parents had both passed away within a month of each other (both in their early 50's). He inherited their house at 19.

Jim, in college with us then, descended into alcohol. Deeper and deeper until he became such a problem his friends and other family couldn't stand to be around him. (all too common). Then some family members along with friends got the bright idea that he needed an intervention. They worked him over good with "We love you, but you're a drunk and will fail".

That night he sat down at his kitchen table and penned a long letter while downing a whole fifth of Jack Daniels (the receipt from that night was on the table too). Turned off the heat, walked into his bedroom, opened all his windows and laid down to sleep. It was -37F below zero that night. He froze to death.

His note explained, among other things, how much he appreciated the intervention...for giving him the final push to end it all because he was, in his words, a "worthless piece of S# who didn't deserve to live."

So yeah, I'm not real fond of the practice having seen the darker side of it.

BTW..I've actually shared this story before in a suicide thread. Experienced the aftermath of way too many of those too.

Massive doses of '___'. Wow. Censored. L-S-D. There, is that better?

It actually showed promised when studied for this back in the 50's. 2016 Study

While not a cure in and of itself, it might just help kickstart that spiritual journey that will lead to permanent change.

To quote Richard Burton:
When you're an alcoholic, it's always November, it's always raining, and it's always three o'clock in the morning.

Hello, Boadicea. I'm sorry to hear someone close to you is struggling in this way. I will attempt to outline a general health guideline that might help your friend. This might turn into a long post, so, please, bear with me.

When it comes to optimizing and maintaining one's health, a good approach to start with is to categorize and specify the various dimensions of health for the purpose of understanding what you are working with, of course. Health can be broken down into 6 main dimensions/categories, which in themselves have a number of sub-categories, and for the most part all the categories are interconnected to each other in one way or another.

Anyway, the six main dimensions are (ranked in no particular order of importance/priority):

1.) Physical Health

2.) Mental Health

3.) Emotional Health

4.) Spiritual Health

5.) Social Health

6.) Environmental Health

The interconnectedness of these dimensions and how they affect one another plays out in various ways. For example, poor Physical health might affect one's ability to regulate their Emotional health, because the individual does not FEEL physically well. The lack of physical well-being, and all the discomfort that comes as result of that state of being, would be emotionally expressed in ways that are less desirable/healthy when compared to the Emotional health of the same individual when their Physical health (and other dimensions of health for that matter) is (are) most optimal. The reverse is true as well. Take, for instance, an individual who has optimized five dimensions of health, but are still in the process of optimizing the dimension of Emotional health. Suddenly, an emotionally traumatic event occurs (death of a loved one). In this case, because the individual has yet to optimize and maintain the dimension of Emotional health, they become incapacitated in some way, whether minor or extreme. Maybe they are unable to come to terms with the traumatic event, and as a result they find themselves unable to BEGIN the process of healing, let alone completely healing themselves. The emotional circumstance of deep pain remains, and as a result of sub-optimal Emotional health, and the fact that we are humans who can only hold on to pain for so long, the individual might seek to suppress/numb this pain through efforts, such as misuse of drugs and alcohol, distraction through entertainment, or, in the case of some individuals, physical self-harm, (though technically the previous two examples are forms of self-harm within the context of striving for optimal health in all dimensions), which of course serves to degrade the dimension of Physical health that was previously at an optimal level.

The dynamic of interconnectedness between these dimensions can play out in the aforementioned examples, and other similar ways, or the dynamic of interconnectedness can be used to support and enhance dimensions of health that might be less optimal than others.

There is a lot more to the overall concept of dimensions of health, but this is pretty much the gist of it. Now, I'll try to tailor all of this to the situation you are dealing with.

First, let's understand the issue. A number of traumatic emotional events have caused your friend to misuse alcohol in an attempt to suppress/numb the pain that was induced by those events.

The solution, of course, is to come to terms with the events, the pain that has been caused, and finally heal one's self of that pain, once and for all, in a healthy manner. Easier said than done, I know.

So, let's brainstorm as to how we can go about doing that. First, coming to terms with/accepting the fact that the events happened, they are in the past, done and over with. In this case, one's Mental health could come into play. Optimal Mental health, grants the individual the ability/clarity of mind to utilize logic and reason in order to understand the events in an objective manner. The traumatic event occurred, and based on what I read, there is no one and nothing to blame. It simply happened by chance, therefore, the element of guilt should not be a relevant factor.

Now, let's use another dimension. Spiritual health. For those who are secular, the viewpoint/terminology of Existential/Philosophical health can be used. This dimension has to do mostly with our outlook on reality/life within the context of higher meaning, which directly affects our sense of purpose, feelings of worthiness, and the path(s) we choose to walk, and indirectly affects other dimensions of health. In this case, there might be an element of hopelessness that is weighing down on your friend. I really can't help here without overstepping the boundaries of an individual's right to cultivate a healthy Spiritual/Existential/Philosophical outlook for themselves. I highly encourage your friend to seek wisdom and higher truths during these times, and to continue developing this dimension of health (as well as the others) moving forward.

Next we have Social health. You have probably heard that humans are social creatures. Now, when it comes to Social health, it is not so important to supplement this through quantity or abunadance of socialization, rather it is more important to seek QUALITY socialization. For instance, a small village made up of a few dozen families that know each other, trust each other, and are open with one another will have more optimal Social health than, say, an individual who lives in a big city without many or any close family members/friends, and instead has relatively many brief social interactions and develops relatively shallow/superficial relationships. The other side of the coin of Social health encompasses how we conduct ourselves in social settings and how we treat others. "The way we treat others is a reflection of how we feel about ourselves." I won't go further into this portion of Social health. Tailoring the previous information to the situation at hand, I think it's in your friend's best interests to surround himself at this time strictly with a close support group of family members and friends who he trusts absolutely, will show him understanding/compassion, and will provide him with QUALITY socialization.

Next up is Environmental health. This dimension of health has to do with the environments we find ourselves in, how they affect us, and how we interact with our environments. "We are bi-products of our own environments". When it comes to the process of self-creation/self-development, it is important to be mindful of the environments we place/find ourselves in. This one is pretty straightforward and doesn't need much explanation, but it is no less important than any of the others. Naturally, and obviously, a chaotic and stressful environment, like a big city, is not conducive to optimal general health. This has been proven by a number of different studies. On the flip side, a peaceful and harmonious environment, like a forest with plenty of life, IS conducive to optimal general health. Now, if your friend currently lives in a city, or highly urban area, I highly recommend for him to spend time in beautiful, natural environments.

Last, but not least, is Physical health. This is one that most people think they understand, and they do, but their understanding is fairly limited, which is not adequate when it comes to something as important as achieving optimal health in all dimensions. I think I've run out of space to type, and I'm out of time, so I'll continue later.

a reply to: soulwaxer

This advice to yourself is the best I've read here and relates to another member's advice. Alcohol is not the only problem. There is also the hole he is trying to fill, and that hole is often created in childhood (or in some genetic way, or both). Reconnecting him to positive experiences in his childhood is psychologically a very good thing to do. This will effect his unconscious, which is mainly what is driving his behaviour.

Great intuition. If anyone in his circles is going to help him help himself, it will most likely be you.

Thank you for the encouraging words -- maybe it's my "mother's intuition" at work. It sure seems appropriate here

And I strongly feel like he needs a "mom" right now. Although I'm keenly aware it may be me that needs to be a mom. I'll have to take my cue from him though.