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With Manafort's trial beginning....

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posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 10:10 AM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Thinking about it, I think this thread has the potential to get quite nasty.

So I am going to bow out early.

Have fun!

this issue in particular has been nothing but nasty for the last 3 years now




posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 10:10 AM
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a reply to: Words

Being misinformed and making a prediction out of ignorance isn't an excuse to call someone a liar though. That's just mean. Plus, sometimes no matter how informed you are you are just wrong with your predictions. There are always variables that haven't been considered for a given situation that are in play. No pundit, or any human for that matter, knows everything. So regardless of what media diet you digest, you WILL be wrong with one of your predictions.

It can be fun to poke fun at someone who was wrong and extremely sure of themselves, but the way I see it, the OP is taking things too far. And he's doing it for a situation that most people aren't that heavily invested in. Manafort flipping isn't a make-or-break for the Russia investigation. It would be a great boon if he DID flip and that's what lead a lot of speculation on if he would or not, but none of us are going to scream from the rooftops because Manafort will be going to trial and possibly face jail time instead of flipping and going free or get a reduced sentence.



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 10:14 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Words

Being misinformed and making a prediction out of ignorance isn't an excuse to call someone a liar though. That's just mean. Plus, sometimes no matter how informed you are you are just wrong with your predictions. There are always variables that haven't been considered for a given situation that are in play. No pundit, or any human for that matter, knows everything. So regardless of what media diet you digest, you WILL be wrong with one of your predictions.

It can be fun to poke fun at someone who was wrong and extremely sure of themselves, but the way I see it, the OP is taking things too far. And he's doing it for a situation that most people aren't that heavily invested in. Manafort flipping isn't a make-or-break for the Russia investigation. It would be a great boon if he DID flip and that's what lead a lot of speculation on if he would or not, but none of us are going to scream from the rooftops because Manafort will be going to trial and possibly face jail time instead of flipping and going free or get a reduced sentence.


I agree with you that calling someone a liar is mean. It is actually used on the president quite a bit, despite his intentions being unknown.



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 10:15 AM
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a reply to: Words

Well the President also says a lot of things that are demonstrably and provably lies. I can't speak for people calling a prediction of his a lie, but it gets to the point where you just assume everything he says is a lie.



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 10:16 AM
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originally posted by: shooterbrody

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Thinking about it, I think this thread has the potential to get quite nasty.

So I am going to bow out early.

Have fun!

this issue in particular has been nothing but nasty for the last 3 years now


3 years? That's about the time of the Mudpit's creation.



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 10:19 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Words

Well the President also says a lot of things that are demonstrably and provably lies. I can't speak for people calling a prediction of his a lie, but it gets to the point where you just assume everything he says is a lie.


Remember, a lie is a falsity with the intention to deceive. The intention is never demonstrated, and he is called a liar simply because he said something wrong. That’s mean, cruel even, and a lie itself.



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 10:20 AM
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originally posted by: loam
a reply to: Krazysh0t

No it doesn't. I can accuse you of anything, whether I know the truth or not. It's about intention. And in my view, threads like this really seek to point that out.

My view is that threads like this are never necessary. They just create division, anger, and resentment.


Regardless, I think this point can be made without naming names in the hopes it might cause some to reconsider their words.

What is there to reconsider? You are either right or you are wrong about your guess. Once shown to be right or wrong there is nothing left to do but accept the current reality and politically analyze from there.


And on the subject of diluting the meaning of words, in these times, maybe that deserves a thread all its own


Perhaps. It is a growing issue in political discourse. That's for sure.



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 10:23 AM
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a reply to: Words

When the President says something then later denies he said it or says something so outlandish (like having higher approval numbers than Lincoln) it's pretty obvious he is lying. I mean we can't ACTUALLY know he is lying unless we were psychic, but come on. Using that logic we could never declare anyone was a liar.



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 10:27 AM
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How's your purge fantasy coming? Have you marked members who disagree with you also for purge night?.



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 10:27 AM
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How's your purge fantasy coming? Have you marked members who disagree with you also for purge night?.



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 10:29 AM
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originally posted by: intrepid

You must have a vested interest in this to go to such lengths. I hope the time and energy pays off for you.


Seems a lot of vested interest into anything that has the slightest chance to smear Trump with anything at all, hell for many if they could indict Trump for having two scoops of ice cream as everyone else has one they would do it in a heart beat. This has been a never ending thing since before even his first day in office, so when you talk "vested interest" I find it amusing to say the least.



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 10:35 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Words

When the President says something then later denies he said it or says something so outlandish (like having higher approval numbers than Lincoln) it's pretty obvious he is lying. I mean we can't ACTUALLY know he is lying unless we were psychic, but come on. Using that logic we could never declare anyone was a liar.


OK...so what... "it was really big, the biggest!!" LIER!!! Who cares about showmanship, he does it, Obama did it, Bush did it....and so on back 200 years.

Now when you lie and it changes 100 million people's health care plans for the worst, when you lie and it cost trillions, when you lie and 1000s of Americans die, 10,000 are injured etc, when you lie and the government puts guns illegally in the hands of criminals that end up killing Americans...want me to go on another 5 pages?

And here today we need to debate the seriousness of Trump saying (like having higher approval numbers than Lincoln) or that he didn't screw a porn star many years ago...

Give me a break...lol




posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 10:37 AM
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why does him going to trial for bank fraud and tax evasion prove that he didn't flip...
what, you think "flipping" will get you off all charges? there's a whole other trial scheduled for this guy.... with different charges which could possibly add more time to his sentence..
and, they could still be holding back more charges.
how much time does he want to spend in jail? ten, twenty, life,
heck, what is the penalty for treason now??



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 10:44 AM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

It has become less about "what" lies and more about "who" lies.
I kind of remember this being a big deal a couple of summers ago.
Lies, intent, perjury, matters, probes, and all that.



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 10:45 AM
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a reply to: dawnstar

He didn't "flip" despite what you and a handful of other gun-jumping posters declared

Mueller would have notified the court that Manafort was cooperating with the SC and that his trial would be postponed until that was completed. When you cooperate, you don't go to trial. You cooperate to get a deal from the prosecution, which would mean pre-trial deal (aka: Plea bargain) to plead guilty + cooperate in exchange for recommendation of leniency (since the judge has to ultimately approve any plea bargains)

But this happens BEFORE the trial. Prosecutors don't take someone to trial unless they are prepared to finish the case. Manafort IS the case, not President Trump.



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 10:46 AM
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a reply to: dawnstar




what is the penalty for treason now??

and in only less than 2 pages.....
perhaps some do not understand what that fully entails?



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 10:47 AM
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a reply to: dawnstar


heck, what is the penalty for treason now??


Death.

Good thing he didn't commit treason, though.


FYI: getting "dirt" on Hillary from Russians or anyone else is not and never will be a crime. Sorry to burst your long-touted bubble.

If the Trump campaign is guilty of that (if it were an actual crime - which it isn't) then so would Hillary. She "colluded" with the British/Russians to compile her dossier of unproven allegations.



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 10:52 AM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

And here comes the "what about Obama?" deflection... Right on cue since I said something negative about Trump. It's not like pointing out the ONE lie that everyone calls Obama out on somehow is comparable to the daily lies that Trump says or anything, but you made it anyways just because a negative comment about Trump CANNOT stand without you guys making sure we also know that Obama wasn't a perfect human being too.

Also, I only brought up the Lincoln lie because it was the most recent one I read. None of what you said really has any baring on any point I made or was discussing though. Obama lying or not lying has nothing to do with anything involving Paul Manafort flipping and none of it has to do with calling an ATS poster a liar for getting a prediction wrong.
edit on 31-7-2018 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 10:55 AM
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a reply to: JBurns

I don't believe I ever claimed that he did flip, contrary to what you want to believe...

I just don't believe him going into this trial means he's not gonna flip.
he has another trial after this that the gov't can use to pressure him with.



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 11:03 AM
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a reply to: JBurns
hacking computer systems is a crime...
being involved in a conspiracy to hack into those computer systems is a crime...
receiving information (or maybe the benfit of that information not sure) that was stolen through a hack is a crime...
working to undermine our election process is a crime...
and, working with a foreign government against the interest of your own country comes close to treason!

of course to what extent any particular individual might have been involved in any of that, if they were involved in such things at all, well we are all gonna have to wait and see how things pan out...

which, I am pretty sure is a position that I have taken throughout this...
you can't be any more sure than I am unless you have some inside information. heck even the press can't really be depended on when it comes to this, not msnbc, not cnn, and NOT FOX AND FRIENDS!!







 
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