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With Manafort's trial beginning....

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posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 09:31 AM
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One this has become very clear. Although some of us have known this from the very beginning, Manafort is clearly not "flipping" as many ATS lefties have predicted/stated in a "matter of fact" way.

Manafort didn't "flip" despite the charges the significantly overreaching Special Counsel has indicted him on. Again, those on here who asserted that Manafort would "flip" should probably issue retractions/apologies at this point, since the trial marks the beginning of:

You're once again proven demonstrably wrong. Perhaps you all should stop peddling your opinions and alt-facts as if they were *actual* facts representative of reality.

Gates didn't flip either....... on anyone other than Manafort (once again, as we said from the beginning)

I'll give those individuals a chance to come clean, however I've bookmarked a good number of posts for the expressed purpose of coming back and discrediting the individuals who were pushing lies (in their usual matter-of-fact foregone conclusion way - absolutely intolerable/insufferable people)

Here's looking at you, folks who made extremely serious (and now demonstrably baseless) claims. It would probably be beneficial to stop peddling personal opinions (aka guesses) around like they were facts. They aren't facts.
edit on 7/31/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 09:38 AM
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a reply to: JBurns

Yep, time to put up...

...or shut up!



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 09:42 AM
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originally posted by: JBurns
I'll give those individuals a chance to come clean, however I've bookmarked a good number of posts for the expressed purpose of coming back and discrediting the individuals who were pushing lies (in their usual matter-of-fact foregone conclusion way - absolutely intolerable/insufferable people)


You must have a vested interest in this to go to such lengths. I hope the time and energy pays off for you.



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 09:43 AM
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a reply to: JBurns

What is to "flip" on?
Considering those who pay attention knew this long ago....
dailycaller.com...


Special counsel Robert Mueller said in a court filing Friday that his prosecutors will not present evidence regarding Trump campaign collusion with Russia at an upcoming trial for former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort. “The government does not intend to present at trial evidence or argument concerning collusion with the Russian government,” reads a filing submitted by Mueller’s team in federal court in Virginia on Friday.

Or are "they saying" trump helped manafort commit fraud in 2005?(isn't there a statute of limitations on this crap?)

Some big win for the bs mueller investigation; the first case will present no evidence concerning collusion with the russian government.
So then this was all an effort to root out process crimes and others crimes previously investigated by the fbi?
edit on 31/7/2018 by shooterbrody because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 09:46 AM
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So I cannot recall having ever said I think Manafort will flip, at least not in the last couple of months.

I might have suggested it could be possible that he might flip against Trump way aback when he was indicted, lets face it though at that point it was a totally legitimate and reasonable thought to have. As time has went on I personally have been thinking that Manafort just simply didn't have enough dirt on Trump for him to be of any interest to the feds in flipping him. I certainly don't think I would have stated it as an absolute fact that Manafort had flipped on Trump or that he thinks he is talking some kind of calculated risk by keeping his mouth shut. I don't know I am not on the legal team and neither is the OP.

I also don't really like these kind of threads that just seem to be out to humiliate other members. Sometimes people get things wrong, its human, we all do it, even Trump (shocker) gets things wrong from time to time. I just think stuff like this is a little bit petty, I mean I don't sit and bookmark everything anyone says so one day I can crawl back and say "told ya so".

I think its much better to go thread by thread. I really hate this thing of holding members to posts they made 6 months ago to use it against them.

but meh, if I did ever state for an absolute fact that Manafort had flipped on Trump then yeah, I was wrong.

Just like everyone else in the world, we all get things wrong from time to time, pretty poor form I think to go about trying to humiliate everyone for it though. Saying that I think Manafort could flip against Trump is not pushing lies or "alt-facts", its just expressing a opinion on what could have happened.

So basically I don't think the OP should be demanding apologies from anyone.
edit on 31-7-2018 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 09:47 AM
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a reply to: intrepid

Vested interest? Is that what we are calling seeking the truth nowadays?

Incidentally, my view is that Manafort isn't flipping because he had nothing to flip with and all of his 'crimes' are unrelated to Trump and his campaign.



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 09:47 AM
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originally posted by: JBurns
I'll give those individuals a chance to come clean, however I've bookmarked a good number of posts for the expressed purpose of coming back and discrediting the individuals who were pushing lies (in their usual matter-of-fact foregone conclusion way - absolutely intolerable/insufferable people)

Making a guess (which is what claiming Manafort will flip was doing) and being wrong with the guess isn't "pushing lies". Stop peddling BS.

Gotta say though, I really don't care if he flipped or not. Not flipping means we go to trial and put everything involving him on the table. Flipping means someone else goes down. Either way I'm satisfied. Your thread is setting a rather low benchmark for success, imo.
edit on 31-7-2018 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 09:50 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Unless you aren't saying you're making a guess...



At a minimum, people get to address the predictive skills of others.

lol

Should be fun.

lol



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 09:51 AM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
I also don't really like these kind of threads that just seem to be out to humiliate other members. Sometimes people get things wrong, its human, we all do it, even Trump (shocker) gets things wrong from time to time. I just think stuff like this is a little bit petty, I mean I don't sit and bookmark everything anyone says so one day I can crawl back and say "told ya so".

What do you expect? This is the norm in ATS now. Playground arguing and tit-for-tat threads.



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 09:53 AM
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a reply to: loam

I'd say you should give people quite a bit of leeway in what is and isn't a guess. Unless the person is explicitly saying that they know because they see the future then you can pretty much assume that it is a guess. Personally, I can't think of many people who really care or are that heavily invested in whether or not Manafort flipped or not.



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 09:54 AM
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a reply to: JBurns

I think it’s fair to say that anyone who makes political predictions about the future is not credible. This is why when everyone claimed Trump a) wouldn’t win the election, b) was sgoing to turn into some dictator, c) would send the country into economic ruin, have a whole lot of egg on their face.
edit on 31|7|18 by Words because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 09:56 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Well let's see the quotes.

But I will agree on one thing, maybe jburns can skip the actual names of posters and just share unattributed posts. The same point can be made in that manner.



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 09:59 AM
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a reply to: loam

Lying requires you to know the right answer and to deliberately deceive. So there really is no grounds to call someone who made an incorrect guess a liar no matter how sincere and passionate they were with their guess. That just dilutes the definition of the word. You can point out that the person was wrong, but calling them a liar is a lie in itself.
edit on 31-7-2018 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 09:59 AM
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a reply to: loam




But I will agree on one thing, maybe jburns can skip the actual names of posters and just share unattributed posts. The same point can be made in that manner.

That is more reasonable, and will not cause intentional discomfort to anyone in particular.
I don't think anyone comes here to get beat down.



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 09:59 AM
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originally posted by: loam
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Well let's see the quotes.

But I will agree on one thing, maybe jburns can skip the actual names of posters and just share unattributed posts. The same point can be made in that manner.



This.

This is a good point.

I would hazard a guess that most people have been making statements like he "could", "might", "possibly" flip on Trump. I don't know if anyone has actually said categorically that Manafort has flipped on Trump.

Because there is a massive difference between the two.



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 10:01 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: loam

Lying requires you to know the right answer and to deliberately deceive. So there really is no grounds to call someone who made an incorrect guess a liar no matter how sincere and passionate they were with their guess. That just dilutes the definition of the word. You can point out that the person was wrong, but calling them a liar is a lie in itself.


Incorrect guess is a little different than a reasoned, false prediction.
edit on 31|7|18 by Words because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 10:03 AM
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a reply to: Words

Irrelevant. Neither one is a lie.



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 10:05 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Words

Irrelevant. Neither one is a lie.


True. I think it is relevant though because people aren’t just taking wild guesses, but are in fact making predictions using the information and reporting fed to them by the msm. They are left with a false impression.



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 10:07 AM
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Thinking about it, I think this thread has the potential to get quite nasty.

So I am going to bow out early.

Have fun!



posted on Jul, 31 2018 @ 10:07 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

No it doesn't. I can accuse you of anything, whether I know the truth or not. It's about intention. And in my view, threads like this really seek to point that out.

Regardless, I think this point can be made without naming names in the hopes it might cause some to reconsider their words.

And on the subject of diluting the meaning of words, in these times, maybe that deserves a thread all its own




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