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20 states take aim at 3D gun company, sue to get files off the Internet

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posted on Aug, 1 2018 @ 05:20 PM
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originally posted by: Salander
I wonder about the practical considerations, having never seen or fired one of these.

How long does one last, how many rounds can it fire before it is useless?


That's one of the big concerns people have with this. They're cheap, accessible, untraceable, and deadly. The perfect weapon to commit low level crimes.

It's not a weapon you take to a range and put 1000 rounds through. It's something you use to rob a liquor store, or to smuggle into a secure area.

And, I think that those are definitely legitimate concerns but to go back to my example of PGP and this having happened in the past. PGP has helped many criminals get away with crimes, all transactions on the dark web use PGP for secure communications between buyers and sellers. It has 100%, without a doubt, facilitated billions in drug sales, arms sales, and all other manner of crimes. Yet, despite that... PGP is also free speech, and people have the right to these documents. There should be nothing illegal about downloading a file and printing the contents. There are already crimes against using weapons to threaten people.

Even if we could prevent these files from being downloaded, what is preventing me from modeling my own gun and printing it out? Some individuals already own the equipment to do this with metal guns now.

There is just no good reason to try and ban this.




posted on Aug, 1 2018 @ 05:22 PM
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I used to play an old RPG called cyberpunk 2020 made in 92 I think and they had guns called polymer one shots they looked the same.
Amazing how much tech from that RPG has come to pass.



posted on Aug, 1 2018 @ 05:47 PM
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a reply to: face23785




I know what you meant, but you'll bitch and moan if I just make the assumption


The question was answered several times in previous post and also in the first post where i said glocs are not metal.

If you knew what i meant then why harass me over and over and make false statements about me not answering your questions.

Do you want me to link you two the post where i answered your question?

I am not looking for the last word. I am looking for you to acknowledge truth.

Just to seal the deal with you and the rest like the masked man. Here you go.

Educate yo self.

Nylon is a polymer—a plastic with super-long, heavy molecules built up of short, endlessly repeating sections of atoms, just like a heavy metal chain is made of ever-repeating links. Nylon is not actually one, single substance but the name given to a whole family of very similar materials called polyamides.Feb 7, 2018
Nylon - The science of synthetic textiles - Explain that Stuff
www.explainthatstuff.com...



posted on Aug, 1 2018 @ 06:17 PM
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a reply to: face23785


It doesn't say the NRA wrote that law. It says the NRA supported the law.


No. This is literally what it says:


Federal law passed in 1988, crafted with the NRA’s support,


If you don't think "crafted" means "dictated" I have a bridge to sell you.



posted on Aug, 1 2018 @ 06:41 PM
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In my understanding there are two parallel things being published. First is a gooey gunk being woven by a chemical being deposited and hardened, in a 3 D design. As a zip gun, it's a joke, since knives only failed when put up against Colt C & B revolvers, in the 1830's, and 40's. But it looks like they have a plastic lower for an AR-15, which trumps any knives.

The second page, here, is printing templates, and maybe some jigs, to let sheet steel be formed into workable pressed steel firearm frames, including metal versions of those plastic lowers, for AR's. Without proper metal hardening, they will only work in the short term, but they will still work for a while.

This isn't anything really new. A Luger Pistol's barrel and toggle can be removed from it's frame, wired together, and it will fire one round, by squeezing in the sear's arm, on the left side. Using piano wire to hold the toggle solid, let gangsters use this odd little weapon, slipped in up their sleeves, to assassinate other gangsters, at public gatherings like horse races. This left the police looking for the assembled Luger P- 08 pistol, which was never, ever, there, intact.

But as I mentioned above, it took a Colt six shooter to put paid to knife fighting._javascript:icon('
')



posted on Aug, 1 2018 @ 06:54 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan


We went over this same case in the 90's essentially. PGP was classified by the government as a weapon and sale of the code was banned.

Ah yes. Those were fun times. In those days I was working as a software engineer on an IPSec product. We had to have different builds for the international version and the domestic version of the product. We had a specialist who's main job was to make sure that we maintained legality with respect to export restrictions.

But, there was one way to get around the restriction of exporting strong encryption. You could actually print a book with the source code in it, and export the book! The recipient just had to convert the code from the printed text into actual source code and compile it to get the strong encryption features of the domestic product.

I'm pretty sure the company never took advantage of this loophole. However, it was an option being considered because the US export restrictions were causing loss of sales internationally. In order to prepare to take advantage of this, our programming standards dictated that no single line of code could be longer than 78 characters; so that it could more easily be printed in book format.



It won by making a free speech case. The same should hold true here.

Yes, at about the same time that the government finally eased their export restrictions, the Circuit Courts ruled in the cases of Junger v. Daley and Bernstein v. United States that software source code is protected by the First Amendment. However it was then a moot point as the government had removed the previous impediments to exporting the code. So, the Supreme Court never had the option to review the case.

However, I believe that the SCOTUS is going to have to hear arguments in this case. The plaintiffs are not going to give in and dismiss the suit; and neither will the defendants. And, I think that a SCOTUS ruling is necessary to establish some precedent concerning First Amendment rights as they apply to publishing technical information online.

-dex



posted on Aug, 1 2018 @ 07:27 PM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: face23785


It doesn't say the NRA wrote that law. It says the NRA supported the law.


No. This is literally what it says:


Federal law passed in 1988, crafted with the NRA’s support,


If you don't think "crafted" means "dictated" I have a bridge to sell you.


Crafted by the NRA or with the NRA's support?

Oh, with the NRA's support, in other words they didn't craft it.

The NRA didn't write the law, they didn't craft it, they didn't dictate it. The NRA supported the law, that's all it says. You're making # up. Don't post blatant lies please. Thanks. Sorry about your false gun control propaganda.



posted on Aug, 1 2018 @ 09:17 PM
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originally posted by: howtonhawky
a reply to: yuppa

not necessarily

there are plans available to print ammo and pins too


yeah but METAL pins or spring are needed to strike firing pins reliably. and ammo casings made of plastic will jam or explode due to the powder inside.

its cheaper to get a real gun such as a AK47 if you are a terrorist.



posted on Aug, 1 2018 @ 09:21 PM
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a reply to: LABTECH767


reliability. thats why. the guys who made this even use them. fearmongering.



posted on Aug, 1 2018 @ 09:29 PM
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originally posted by: testingtesting
I used to play an old RPG called cyberpunk 2020 made in 92 I think and they had guns called polymer one shots they looked the same.
Amazing how much tech from that RPG has come to pass.


I found some interesting stuff about that weapon:
In 2013 this guy had the same thoughts as you:

Waaay back in 1990, the Cyberpunk idea of a plastic gun that could be created on an “autofactory” machine was the stuff of science fiction.


A list of Cyberpunk 2020 guns; some of which are made of polymer.

The Federated Arms X-22 Polymer-one-shot. In another place I saw this handgun describes as a poorly designed, cheaply made, unreliable, and inaccurate. Much like the polymer Liberator we've been discussing.

-dex



posted on Aug, 1 2018 @ 09:46 PM
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originally posted by: Salander
I wonder about the practical considerations, having never seen or fired one of these.

How long does one last, how many rounds can it fire before it is useless?


It may not survive even one shot. But the original idea of a one shot disposable pistol is from WWII. The FP-45 Liberator was issued to resistance forces in occupied territories.


It fired the .45 ACP pistol cartridge from an unrifled barrel. Due to this limitation, it was intended for short range use, 1–4 yards (1–4 m). Its maximum effective range was only about 25 feet (8 m)

The Liberator was shipped in a cardboard box with 10 rounds of .45 ACP ammunition, a wooden dowel to remove the empty cartridge case, and an instruction sheet in comic strip form[4] showing how to load and fire the weapon.

It was originally intended as an insurgency weapon to be mass dropped behind enemy lines to resistance fighters in occupied territory. A resistance fighter was to recover the gun, sneak up on an Axis occupier, kill or incapacitate him, and retrieve his weapons.

So, it was a cheap, simple handgun that the resistance fighter used to kill the enemy to get a better gun.

Possibly a practical use for a weapon like this is as part of your Bug-Out-Bag. In an SHTF situation you could use this cheap handgun as a stepping stone to acquire a more reliable weapon from an assailant.

-dex



posted on Aug, 1 2018 @ 10:52 PM
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a reply to: howtonhawky

Wow. That was a damn soulful rendition of Whipping Post.

I enjoyed that immensely.

I also see the link between this song and how you've been made to feel in this thread. This is one tough crowd!


-dex



posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 12:36 AM
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a reply to: DexterRiley

Yeah the only thing they got wrong was the memory computers had they still thought it would be megabytes not giga and terra ones.
edit on 2-8-2018 by testingtesting because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 04:35 AM
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a reply to: face23785

That's right... lobbyists never write legislation, they only "support" what Congress drafts on its own.



posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 10:27 AM
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a reply to: DexterRiley

Yes twas quiet the debate where facts seem to be beside the point but those types of peeps always end up in there own traps.

I just love how the term "plastic gun" is being thrown around to garner space in ones mind as to make them seem less deadly.

There is a company here in tx. making printers and selling them right now that will spit out a fully functional AR and 1911.

It will print magazines and springs.

It takes only a matter of hours to go from nothing but a box of bullets to full commando.

Do not buy the crazy thought that plastic guns are not used in crime or that a fully plastic gun does not exist.

The kicker here is that if we do not allow these printers then we lose are 1st and 2nd amendment in the future and the nra will be the ones trying to regulate our freedom of press now.

Locally we had a guy busted for selling those copper pipe,rubber band and nail guns that were being used by thugs to end debates permanently. A ten dollar gun that can be made in every single town across america and the plans are linked right here on ats in the improvised mutations handbook produced by the us gov military industrial complex.

Very serious implications here for freedom.

What will win? The patriot act or freedom?



posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 10:38 AM
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I don't know if this has been brought up yet....

But.... What is the point of banning these particular blue-pints, when anyone with autocad experience can just draw up their own ?

How will they control that ?



posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 04:50 PM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: DexterRiley

Small arms manufacturers like Remington will never allow this. The Second Amendment is about their unfettered right to make money by selling firearms, not your right to self defense.


Like laws stopping criminals with guns? What law will Remington lobby to stop the situation? The sad truth, people with basic machine skills could already make guns with 1911 technology. Hence the model 1911 handgun?

Why not use the pre-existing laws on individual gun manufacturing for private use and apply it to 3D printer firearms?
edit on 2-8-2018 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed



posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 05:16 PM
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Here are a couple of links which teach one how to build a gun from parts found at a hardware store.

www.instructables.com...

www.amazingpal.tv...


edit on 2-8-2018 by JBIZZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 05:58 PM
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originally posted by: CrawlingChaos
I don't know if this has been brought up yet....

But.... What is the point of banning these particular blue-pints, when anyone with autocad experience can just draw up their own ?

How will they control that ?


The only way would be to control the technology that makes the manufacture possible. There are many older standalone CAM software packages to turn the 3d part models into GCode to be read by any CNC, combined with off the shelf hobby/workshop technology such as Mach3 control software, Harbour Freight Milling and Lathe machinery etc.

Autodesk Fusion 360 has been a game changer in bringing digital workshop fabrication to within the scope of a domestic garage, but as all the CAM post-processing is done in the 'Cloud', there is the ability to red-flag any particular user who is deemed to be manufacturing illegal items, based on their 3d model libraries held in the cloud.



posted on Aug, 3 2018 @ 08:03 AM
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a reply to: timski


My point is, for example just using the 3d drafting functions of Civil-3D, I can make 3D plans for a gun, any gun. Wouldn't need to be hosted anywhere, nor on a cloud system.



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