What is the Mystery of the Trinity…?

a reply to: Akragon

He said specifically that the Father taught him all he knows... not to mention in other passages all things are "given" to him... and everything he does is because of the Father, not himself

This was the only way he could get some of them to understand who he was without giving himself away to the point of being killed sooner. We know what happened when Jesus hinted to this "mystery" in a little more detail...

John 8:19

19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

John 8:23-24

23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

John 8:43

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

John 8:56-59

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

a reply to: Deetermined

I don't read scripture. I don't quote scripture
I don't believe in metaphors. That is called divining.
It creates confusion. Confusion is the cause of many interruptions. Instead, I speak of the experience(s) that is God's failure and/or promise.
His name is no importance...
His Craft was not to be interpreted.
His oath was not to be revealed until one (anyone) has performed their share of the divine.
love one another...

I am a hardcore fan of the Trinity.
Father, Son, and Holy Ghost!

My holy ghost is all Encompassing.
It begins with this image in which I was/am created. ---> 🇵🇷
I do well to mind the parents whom I was sent to.

You linger in the square.
I Experience the circle.

Math is a topic of the all Encompassing.

3.14 aka Π

3 represents our prison.
• Land(s) • Sea(s) • Skies • aka 3
• Race • aka 1 (My Kind)...
• Government • Politics • Demands • Ethics • aka 4
• Theology • aka 1 (Science Of Wealth & Riches)...

The saga is not about who knows more...
But about....

a reply to: Deetermined

This was the only way he could get some of them to understand who he was without giving himself away to the point of being killed sooner. We know what happened when Jesus hinted to this "mystery" in a little more detail...

Nah... he stated very clearly who he was exactly on a regular basis...

The son of God...

He even asked his followers, "Who do you say i am".... and they said the same... You are the son of the living God

NOT... God in the flesh...

God does not have a God... and Jesus had a God

Thus... HE was not God

In other words as i've been saying.... No trinity

a reply to: lostinspace

Originally posted by lostinspace
“When you make the two into one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and what is above like what is below, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make a pair of eyes in place of one eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter.”

There's a mystery for you! Who said it? And enter what?

It’s from the Gospel of Thomas…and Jesus said those words...IMO

It means to enter the Kingdom within yourself and to also realize that it’s outside of yourself too.

Making the two into one, means to make your Spirit be in alignment with your Soul.

Originally posted by lostinspace
The Trinity is surely a mystery. Did you know? The Vulcan hand signal by Spock in Star Trek is also used by the Jews in the Synagogue. They all close their eyes and make the Vulcan hand signal with both hands. When they do that the Feminine aspect of the Holy Spirit enters the Synagogue. If you peek during this ceremony you could be blinded.

Blinded by the fire…???


- JC

a reply to: whereislogic

I agree with a lot of what you said in regards to believing without understanding. And it’s ironic, considering that it’s the Spirit, which teaches the understanding.

Trinitarian believers should be able to explain all scriptures in relation to the Trinity, unfortunately none of them can do that. Or at least they haven’t been able to so far on this thread.


- JC

a reply to: Joecroft

Philippians 2:6
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.

The above verse from one of the Pauline Epistles, is the closest verse I can find in the Bible, which promotes a co-equal relationship between the Father and Jesus.


Seems to me like Paul is wrong, because that statement above goes against Jesus own words elsewhere in the Bible.

Jesus said no one is Good except God alone…And Jesus also said the Father was greater than himself etc…

And Jesus doesn't even know the final day or hour of judgment day…and states that only the Father knows the hour…


None of those statements suggests Jesus being equal with God…

But of course, it’s all a mystery…


- JC

a reply to: Onlyoneatall

Greetings Onlyoneatall

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumoured by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”
Siddhartha Gautama 'The Buddha'

Originally posted by Onlyoneatall
Now, if we were to say that we have beheld the Sun in two mirrors—one Christ and the other the Holy Spirit—or, in other words, that we have seen three Suns—one in heaven and two upon the earth—we would be speaking the truth. And if we were to say that there is only one Sun, that it is absolute singleness, and that it has no peer or partner, we would again be speaking the truth.

The Sun that is in Heaven, is the same Sun that is on the earth. Therefore we can say that there is “two upon the Earth” or we can say there is only One Sun. There is no three.

Peace be with you.

- JC

Jesus didn't teach the mystery of triune gods. He made it clear he was to sacrifice by God's will. Neither John of Baptist was confuse with Jesus being a lamb of god. There is only one God. God does not and will not confuse his creation with his immortality. God doesn't die on cross or cried, "Father, Why have you forsaken me?" God doesn't deceive man with fake death and fake flesh. Neither God ressurected in three days. This concept of Jesus godhood introduced by trinitarian defy the teaching of all Abrahamic religions.

Most important of all, God doesn't create Jesus to confuse man. It is illogical to make a man a sinner for the things they don't understand due to the mystery of trinity. The same illogical to throw unbelievers' children to eternal fire due to lack of faith.

God is omniscience. All truth had been given. God doesn't lies or making a fool with man's faith, because Sheol is a serious matter.

a reply to: Joecroft

Jesus said no one is Good except God alone…And Jesus also said the Father was greater than himself etc…

And Jesus doesn't even know the final day or hour of judgment day…and states that only the Father knows the hour…

"What if we have a verse that says Jesus did not know all things and another that says he did know all things, then isn't that a contradiction? No, it is not.

Before Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection He said the Father alone knew the day and hour of His return. It wasn't until after Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection that omniscience was attributed to Jesus. As I said before, Jesus was cooperating with the limitations of being a man and completed His ministry on this earth. He was then glorified in His resurrection. Yet, He was still a man (cf. Col. 2:9; 1 Tim. 2:5). After Jesus' resurrection, He was able to appear and disappear at will. This is not the normal ability of a man; it is, apparently, the normal ability of a resurrected and glorified man. Jesus was different after the resurrection. There had been a change. He was still a man, and He knew all things.

Also, if Jesus is not God because, as the critics say he did not know something, then that poses a problem for God. Check out this verse.

Revelation 19:12–13, "His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. 13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God."

So, if Jesus is the only one who knows his name - which means God the Father doesn't - then God the Father, can't be God. Obviously, the logic of the critics isn't any good."

carm.org...

a reply to: Joecroft

Trinitarian believers should be able to explain all scriptures in relation to the Trinity, unfortunately none of them can do that. Or at least they haven’t been able to so far on this thread.

Out of the approximate 50 verses that I have posted throughout your thread, which ones did you not understand and still need explaining?

a reply to: EasternShadow

God does not and will not confuse his creation with his immortality. God doesn't die on cross or cried, "Father, Why have you forsaken me?"

Jesus' last words on the cross was a sign of him fulfilling scripture, just as he said he came to do.

Psalms 22:1

22 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

Luke 24:44

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning ME.

John 5:46

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.

Once again, Jesus said that Moses, the prophets and the psalms all wrote about Him.

originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: Akragon

Originally posted by Akragon
The mystery is its false doctrine... and yet they still believe it

lol

Hey Akragon

My thinking is, why would any Christian believe in it, if it has not been revealed to the individual that it is true.

Surely at least one Christian out there has had the mystery revealed to them and can articulate the mystery to others on this thread.

- JC

None of it has ever been revealed...and never will since none of it is true.

Mysteries are a sure sign of plans gone awry long ago.

The best thing ever is to tell people riddles about something and have them try to figure it out endlessly..never reaching any reality or power of their own.

a reply to: EasternShadow

Most important of all, God doesn't create Jesus to confuse man. It is illogical to make a man a sinner for the things they don't understand due to the mystery of trinity. The same illogical to throw unbelievers' children to eternal fire due to lack of faith.

Jesus spoke in parables for a reason. God or Jesus doesn't make men sinners, men do. The more they follow Jesus and build a personal relationship with Him, and follow his teachings, the more understanding comes.

Why did Jesus speak in parables?

"The question is why Jesus would let most people wonder about the meaning of His parables. The first instance of this is in His telling the parable of the seed and the soils. Before He interpreted this parable, He drew His disciples away from the crowd. They said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?" Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted. For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him. Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says,

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not perceive; For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.’ But blessed are your eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they hear. For truly I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it" (Matthew 13:10-17)."

www.gotquestions.org...

a reply to: Isurrender73

Lucifer was born before Jesus.

And he will return to prove this.

Reading the book of Revelations shows a clear return to a more focused and clear being...the failed Jesus experiment is over...love and hate on full display in one individual..born again to destroy all the lies.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Joecroft
What if we have a verse that says Jesus did not know all things and another that says he did know all things, then isn't that a contradiction? No, it is not.

Paradox and contradictions are common in verbal transmission and written copied texts.

originally posted by: Deetermined
Before Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection He said the Father alone knew the day and hour of His return. It wasn't until after Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection that omniscience was attributed to Jesus. As I said before, Jesus was cooperating with the limitations of being a man and completed His ministry on this earth. He was then glorified in His resurrection. Yet, He was still a man (cf. Col. 2:9; 1 Tim. 2:5). After Jesus' resurrection, He was able to appear and disappear at will. This is not the normal ability of a man; it is, apparently, the normal ability of a resurrected and glorified man. Jesus was different after the resurrection. There had been a change. He was still a man, and He knew all things.

Jesus was not the only one who had risen from death. There were Lazarus of Bethany ( John 11 ),The widow of Zarephath’s son (1 Kings 17:17–24)., The Shunammite woman’s son (2 Kings 4:18–37), The widow of Nain’s son (Luke 7:11–17), Jairus’ daughter (Luke 8:52–56), Tabitha (Acts 9:36–43), Eutychus (Acts 20:7–12), and any others. This were common people.

Other than that God took Enoch ( Genesis 5:24 )( Hebrews 11:5 ) and Elijah ( 2 Kings 2:11) to Heaven, just like God took Jesus after resurrection.

Jesus was not the only who can rise a man from death. Both Peter and Paul can perform the same feat. They were not even prophets. Elijah constantly revived dead person in 2 Kings.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Joecroft
Also, if Jesus is not God because, as the critics say he did not know something, then that poses a problem for God. Check out this verse.

Revelation 19:12–13, "His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. 13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God."

So, if Jesus is the only one who knows his name - which means God the Father doesn't - then God the Father, can't be God. Obviously, the logic of the critics isn't any good."

carm.org...

If "He has a name on Him which no one knows except Himself," then how did John of Patmos knew, "His name is called The Word of God?" Surely, John of Patmos would not know. Otherwise he should have written, "no one knows except Himself and Me."

Rock, paper, scissors...

Father beats son, son beat holy spirit, and holy spirit beats father.

a reply to: EasternShadow

Jesus was not the only one who had risen from death. There were Lazarus of Bethany ( John 11 ),The widow of Zarephath’s son (1 Kings 17:17–24)., The Shunammite woman’s son (2 Kings 4:18–37), The widow of Nain’s son (Luke 7:11–17), Jairus’ daughter (Luke 8:52–56), Tabitha (Acts 9:36–43), Eutychus (Acts 20:7–12), and any others. This were common people.

Your comment above just goes to show your total lack of understanding of the Christian faith. Jesus raised others from the dead as miracles (along with other disciples), but Jesus is the only one who is capable of raising the dead to a life of eternity. The other people may have been brought back to a mortal life on earth for a time, but it was only temporary. Only Jesus is able to provide life for eternity.

Other than that God took Enoch ( Genesis 5:24 )( Hebrews 11:5 ) and Elijah ( 2 Kings 2:11) to Heaven, just like God took Jesus after resurrection.

Jesus didn't go straight to Heaven. He resurrected and walked the earth for 40 days before he ascended to Heaven.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: EasternShadow

God does not and will not confuse his creation with his immortality. God doesn't die on cross or cried, "Father, Why have you forsaken me?"

Jesus' last words on the cross was a sign of him fulfilling scripture, just as he said he came to do.

Psalms 22:1

22 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

Luke 24:44

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning ME.

John 5:46

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.

Once again, Jesus said that Moses, the prophets and the psalms all wrote about Him.

Jesus is fulfilling Isaiah's Prophecy. Not God.

Jesus said, "I can do nothing by Myself; I judge only as I hear. And My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me." ( John 5:30 )

The one who cried out "father, why has you forsaken me," is clearly not God. Not even a lesser god. God = YHWH, lesser gods = angels or even Satan.

a reply to: EasternShadow

If "He has a name on Him which no one knows except Himself," then how did John of Patmos knew, "His name is called The Word of God?" Surely, John of Patmos would not know. Otherwise he should have written, "no one knows except Himself and Me."

That verse came from the "Revelation" of John that is a future event. At the time of Jesus' second coming, he will be given yet another name...

Revelation 19:11-13

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.


Plus, in return, Jesus will give us new names. Read the last verse below very carefully. It gives another clue to God and Jesus being ONE and the same.

Revelation 3:11-12

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him MY new name.

All more "mystery" clues that most of you will choose to ignore.