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Wages TANK After Trump's Wealthy Tax Cut

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posted on Jul, 30 2018 @ 01:42 AM
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originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: JameSimon

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: jacobe001

so what?

so expanding government and increasing taxes on corporations (passed off to the consumer causing inflation) isn't going to solve the problem

returning power to the people (by decreasing taxes putting the money back in the consumers hands) and decoupling the relationship between government and enterprise is the solution

you guys fundamentally get every economic solution WRONG


That's why companies dropped their prices after the 14% tax cut, right? Wrong. Prices are still the same everywhere.

A proper tax cut starts from the bottom up. You cut taxes on those making less which are, in turn, those that usually spend more of their wage and save less. Those people start buying more goods, which drives the need for more jobs. If you first cut taxes on the higher breaks / companies you will get people hoarding more money and companies paying out more dividends.

Trump could have given a substantial tax cut to the lower brackets and then cut the rest a couple of years later.


Yikes, this has too many stars.

The bottom 45% already don’t pay federal income tax. It’s hard to cut from 0 or less than 0.

The top 20% pay 87%, so they’ll get the most benefits from a tax cut. It’s just how a progressive tax system works.

www.marketwatch.com...


What comes after those 45%? Someone that pays taxes. Cut there. Cut first on the lower and middle classes. I don't really care for thresholds, what I said is that you cut from the bottom up.

I don't see how what I said is wrong and has too many stars, but thats fine.




posted on Jul, 30 2018 @ 01:48 AM
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originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Alien Abduct

Or perhaps they shouldn’t have to compete with someone that shouldn’t be here in the first place. Yeah that makes more sense.
I’ve already had this argument with you. If you want to rehash this then you should go back and read the first one where you lost.


It's a global economy. It doesn't matter where they are.

And even if it did, they're clearly doing a better job. If Americans were the better workers, they would be the ones working. Why should business have to settle for second class employees?


Second class employees that’s real funny. No, your wrong once again. It’s not that they are doing a better job it’s because they do it for far less, which is what is also driving down wages.





They must be second class employees though, if they were first class employees they would get the job over the illegal worker.... Would they not?


It makes the American workers first class and the illegals second class. They can’t afford or don’t want to have to afford the first class worker so they go cheap and higher the second class worker that is willing to work for far less.


You're using class in terms of legal rights, I'm using it in terms of skills. The only way to be first class is to do a better job faster, and for less money. If you can't do that, you've lost the competition and should look for another sector to work in.


What don’t you get about the part where Americans should not have to be competing with people that are here ILLEGALLY.????

If the LAW was enforced like it should be the Americans wouldn’t have to compete with people that ARE HERE ILLEGALLY.

They don’t necessarily do a better job. It’s because they do it for far less because they are here ILLEGALLY. And this is what brings down the wages.



Who's to blame for illegal immigrants taking your jobs?

The government
Employers

You attack the first while defending the second, when you cannot fully stop illegal immigration but can apply massive fines to people hiring them.



posted on Jul, 30 2018 @ 04:12 AM
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a reply to: JameSimon

I already mentioned punishing the hell out of the companies hiring them.

And to be honest I don’t blame or dislike the people who are here illegally. I would probably be doing the same thing they are doing. But that still doesn’t change the facts.



posted on Jul, 30 2018 @ 04:21 AM
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a reply to: Alien Abduct


I already mentioned punishing the hell out of the companies hiring them.


You mentioned it, yet you don't seem to care that the Trump Administration and congress have conveniently left these businesses out of their microscope.

You don't really care. That's just it.




posted on Jul, 30 2018 @ 04:57 AM
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originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: JameSimon

I already mentioned punishing the hell out of the companies hiring them.

And to be honest I don’t blame or dislike the people who are here illegally. I would probably be doing the same thing they are doing. But that still doesn’t change the facts.




Why go on and on about the immigrants knowing they are not to blame for this then ?



posted on Jul, 30 2018 @ 06:17 AM
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a reply to: Alien Abduct

It still doesn't change the facts: they work because they are allowed to. A lot of them also pay taxes. So the problem really is that most Americans are not willing to work on certain areas and your businessman, as the ones in my home country Portugal, are not willing to pay people a reasonable wage. It's a cultural problem.



posted on Jul, 30 2018 @ 06:43 AM
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originally posted by: JameSimon
a reply to: Alien Abduct

It still doesn't change the facts: they work because they are allowed to. A lot of them also pay taxes. So the problem really is that most Americans are not willing to work on certain areas and your businessman, as the ones in my home country Portugal, are not willing to pay people a reasonable wage. It's a cultural problem.


Americans want Y, employers are paying X. Others are happy to work for X, so they do. The ones who want too much money get pushed out of the system. That's the market at work.

That is 100% what the free market, that these people claim to support, is supposed to do. It's supposed to funnel money away from the ordinary worker, because being average means being uncompetitive.

Welcome to capitalism. Maybe it's time you join the rest of us in discussing a better system?



posted on Jul, 30 2018 @ 06:45 AM
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originally posted by: Southern Guardian
a reply to: Alien Abduct


I already mentioned punishing the hell out of the companies hiring them.


You mentioned it, yet you don't seem to care that the Trump Administration and congress have conveniently left these businesses out of their microscope.

You don't really care. That's just it.



Right, nice of you to put words in my mouth/thoughts in my head. Have a good day.



posted on Jul, 30 2018 @ 06:49 AM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: JameSimon

I already mentioned punishing the hell out of the companies hiring them.

And to be honest I don’t blame or dislike the people who are here illegally. I would probably be doing the same thing they are doing. But that still doesn’t change the facts.




Why go on and on about the immigrants knowing they are not to blame for this then ?


You mean the illegal immigrants? Because ultimately them being here is what’s hurting our wages and that’s the topic of the OP. The topic of the OP is not about how the government isn’t doing enough to get the illegals out or the fact that companies are hiring them.

ETA: I never said they weren’t to blame for the wage drop in fact I’ve said the opposite. I said I don’t blame them for coming over here because I would’ve probably done the same. That doesn’t make them not guilty.
edit on 7/30/2018 by Alien Abduct because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2018 @ 06:57 AM
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originally posted by: JameSimon
a reply to: Alien Abduct

It still doesn't change the facts: they work because they are allowed to. A lot of them also pay taxes. So the problem really is that most Americans are not willing to work on certain areas and your businessman, as the ones in my home country Portugal, are not willing to pay people a reasonable wage. It's a cultural problem.


Well my solution to this problem would be to BUILD A WALL at the Southern United States border and DEPORT ALL ILLEGALS. Good thing I voted a man in with the balls to do it! MAGA! I’m out.



posted on Jul, 30 2018 @ 06:59 AM
link   

originally posted by: JameSimon
a reply to: Alien Abduct

It still doesn't change the facts: they work because they are allowed to. A lot of them also pay taxes. So the problem really is that most Americans are not willing to work on certain areas and your businessman, as the ones in my home country Portugal, are not willing to pay people a reasonable wage. It's a cultural problem.


I found out about the paying taxes part the hard way. My wife had her identity stolen by what i assume to be an illegal. Used her social security made about 56000.00 under her social. When it came time to do our taxes refund was held up because tax records didnt match.

And then not only did we jot get the refund we got a letter from the IRS stating we owed 3400.00 for 1 year and an additional 1800.00 for the next.

So lets say i learned the hard way they are not paying their taxes



posted on Jul, 30 2018 @ 07:38 AM
link   

originally posted by: JameSimon

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: JameSimon

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: jacobe001

so what?

so expanding government and increasing taxes on corporations (passed off to the consumer causing inflation) isn't going to solve the problem

returning power to the people (by decreasing taxes putting the money back in the consumers hands) and decoupling the relationship between government and enterprise is the solution

you guys fundamentally get every economic solution WRONG


That's why companies dropped their prices after the 14% tax cut, right? Wrong. Prices are still the same everywhere.

A proper tax cut starts from the bottom up. You cut taxes on those making less which are, in turn, those that usually spend more of their wage and save less. Those people start buying more goods, which drives the need for more jobs. If you first cut taxes on the higher breaks / companies you will get people hoarding more money and companies paying out more dividends.

Trump could have given a substantial tax cut to the lower brackets and then cut the rest a couple of years later.


Yikes, this has too many stars.

The bottom 45% already don’t pay federal income tax. It’s hard to cut from 0 or less than 0.

The top 20% pay 87%, so they’ll get the most benefits from a tax cut. It’s just how a progressive tax system works.

www.marketwatch.com...


What comes after those 45%? Someone that pays taxes. Cut there. Cut first on the lower and middle classes. I don't really care for thresholds, what I said is that you cut from the bottom up.

I don't see how what I said is wrong and has too many stars, but thats fine.


They make up 13% of overall tax income. See the problem yet? If we ask the rich to pay all of the taxes they'll start skipping town..



posted on Jul, 30 2018 @ 07:43 AM
link   

originally posted by: JameSimon
a reply to: Alien Abduct

It still doesn't change the facts: they work because they are allowed to. A lot of them also pay taxes. So the problem really is that most Americans are not willing to work on certain areas and your businessman, as the ones in my home country Portugal, are not willing to pay people a reasonable wage. It's a cultural problem.


They don't pay taxes. Jeez. They work for undercut wages since they aren't paying taxes.



posted on Jul, 30 2018 @ 07:48 AM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian

Only tax increase would have saved this problem. Please take more money out of my paycheck



posted on Jul, 30 2018 @ 08:40 AM
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a reply to: JDmOKI


Only tax increase would have saved this problem. Please take more money out of my paycheck



A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent

Source

Keep your taxes, and that mentality of yours.




posted on Jul, 30 2018 @ 09:01 AM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian

This is not a surprise to anybody with two working brain cells to rub together. The sole goal of this latest tax 'revision' (to use the term VERY loosely) is to further funnel more wealth into the top very few percent. No other goal, no other significant result.

S&F



posted on Jul, 30 2018 @ 09:27 AM
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I'm going to add my anecdotal increase in here, I'm sure it won't be believed but I don't really care. I guess I don't really count in your argument anyway since I'm in the top 10%...

That being said, 18k per year base salary increase that was delivered to me as a retention increase. Hiring is good in our sector and spots are going unfilled due to a lack of qualified candidates, this was a "please for the love of god don't leave" raise. Also directly from the tax cuts I see an extra $800 a month in my paycheck, so there's that.

Also our clients are spending quite a bit more on projects they would have normally kicked down the road, because the tax cuts are enabling them to spend that extra money. Which impacts a company that employs close to 300k worldwide, with around 75k of them being US based.

Heck even with the retention increase the grass is still looking pretty green at some other companies that I'm talking with. That being said...anecdote so I'm sure easily dismissed.



posted on Jul, 30 2018 @ 10:01 AM
link   

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: JameSimon
a reply to: Alien Abduct

It still doesn't change the facts: they work because they are allowed to. A lot of them also pay taxes. So the problem really is that most Americans are not willing to work on certain areas and your businessman, as the ones in my home country Portugal, are not willing to pay people a reasonable wage. It's a cultural problem.


Americans want Y, employers are paying X. Others are happy to work for X, so they do. The ones who want too much money get pushed out of the system. That's the market at work.

That is 100% what the free market, that these people claim to support, is supposed to do. It's supposed to funnel money away from the ordinary worker, because being average means being uncompetitive.

Welcome to capitalism. Maybe it's time you join the rest of us in discussing a better system?


This is exactly why capitalism doesn't work, there's always that one dumbass that is willing to sell his work short of the actual value. This is also why you live in a broken economy when there are countries that actually employ rules and regulations (like supporting unions) that create better working and living conditions. But hey, I usually say this: Look at Denmark.

I refuse to join your system, and that's why I would NEVER live in 'Murica. I'm actually very nice in Ireland, with all it's downsides and upsides. I have a medical condition that requires me monthly appointments and pay exactly 0 to get them. I also pay less taxes than I would there. All is good.



posted on Jul, 30 2018 @ 10:08 AM
link   

originally posted by: JameSimon

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: JameSimon
a reply to: Alien Abduct

It still doesn't change the facts: they work because they are allowed to. A lot of them also pay taxes. So the problem really is that most Americans are not willing to work on certain areas and your businessman, as the ones in my home country Portugal, are not willing to pay people a reasonable wage. It's a cultural problem.


Americans want Y, employers are paying X. Others are happy to work for X, so they do. The ones who want too much money get pushed out of the system. That's the market at work.

That is 100% what the free market, that these people claim to support, is supposed to do. It's supposed to funnel money away from the ordinary worker, because being average means being uncompetitive.

Welcome to capitalism. Maybe it's time you join the rest of us in discussing a better system?


This is exactly why capitalism doesn't work, there's always that one dumbass that is willing to sell his work short of the actual value. This is also why you live in a broken economy when there are countries that actually employ rules and regulations (like supporting unions) that create better working and living conditions. But hey, I usually say this: Look at Denmark.

I refuse to join your system, and that's why I would NEVER live in 'Murica. I'm actually very nice in Ireland, with all it's downsides and upsides. I have a medical condition that requires me monthly appointments and pay exactly 0 to get them. I also pay less taxes than I would there. All is good.


LOL. Yeah, you don't even understand how illegals work for practically nothing in the US due to dodging taxes. We don't want you here. Stay in Ireland and preach your schtick, please.

I've been to Ireland for work. It's a nice place, but I was in a Dublin bar with people who moved to the US and they said they love to visit but wouldn't want to live in Ireland again.
edit on 30-7-2018 by Throes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2018 @ 10:14 AM
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originally posted by: Throes
They make up 13% of overall tax income. See the problem yet? If we ask the rich to pay all of the taxes they'll start skipping town..


Again, you’re missing the point. I’m not saying “increase taxes on the rich”, I’m saying that taxes should be primarily cut on the lower classes (being sub 200k or sub 20k, that’s not the point). Usually if you cut 1% taxes on the upper 1% class you will get people hoarding money, as opposed to cutting taxes on the bottom 20%. If you cut taxes on everybody making less than 200k per year you’re essentially adding more money flow to the economy. Sure, some of those people will save much more, but rule of thumb is that the super rich will not inject money in the economy if they get to keep more of their salary. Trickle down has been proven to not work, but trickle up can and will still work. You can still cut taxes on the upper breaks, but do give it a buffer.


originally posted by: Throes
They don't pay taxes. Jeez. They work for undercut wages since they aren't paying taxes.


bipartisanpolicy.org...



The IRS estimates that undocumented immigrants pay over $9 billion in withheld payroll taxes annually. Undocumented immigrants also help make the Social Security system more solvent, as they pay into the system but are ineligible to collect benefits upon retiring. In 2010, $12 billion more was collected from Social Security payroll taxes of undocumented workers than were paid out in benefits.


www.citymayors.com...



August 2017: At the start of the Trump presidency, in January 2017, more than eleven million undocumented immigrants (1) not only lived and worked in the US but also contributed substantially to the American economy. A study by the Institute of Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP), published in February 2016 (2), found that undocumented immigrants pay some US$11.6 billion annually in state and local taxes


Edit: Are you always so kind with non-americans? I'm still waiting on your refutal on how illegals don't pay taxes. I guess I'll grab a chair.
edit on 30-7-2018 by JameSimon because: Added info



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