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Wages TANK After Trump's Wealthy Tax Cut
page: 10share:
originally posted by: JameSimon
originally posted by: Throes
They make up 13% of overall tax income. See the problem yet? If we ask the rich to pay all of the taxes they'll start skipping town..
Again, you’re missing the point. I’m not saying “increase taxes on the rich”, I’m saying that taxes should be primarily cut on the lower classes (being sub 200k or sub 20k, that’s not the point). Usually if you cut 1% taxes on the upper 1% class you will get people hoarding money, as opposed to cutting taxes on the bottom 20%. If you cut taxes on everybody making less than 200k per year you’re essentially adding more money flow to the economy. Sure, some of those people will save much more, but rule of thumb is that the super rich will not inject money in the economy if they get to keep more of their salary. Trickle down has been proven to not work, but trickle up can and will still work. You can still cut taxes on the upper breaks, but do give it a buffer.
originally posted by: Throes
They don't pay taxes. Jeez. They work for undercut wages since they aren't paying taxes.
bipartisanpolicy.org...
The IRS estimates that undocumented immigrants pay over $9 billion in withheld payroll taxes annually. Undocumented immigrants also help make the Social Security system more solvent, as they pay into the system but are ineligible to collect benefits upon retiring. In 2010, $12 billion more was collected from Social Security payroll taxes of undocumented workers than were paid out in benefits.
www.citymayors.com...
August 2017: At the start of the Trump presidency, in January 2017, more than eleven million undocumented immigrants (1) not only lived and worked in the US but also contributed substantially to the American economy. A study by the Institute of Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP), published in February 2016 (2), found that undocumented immigrants pay some US$11.6 billion annually in state and local taxes
Edit: Are you always so kind with non-americans? I'm still waiting on your refutal on how illegals don't pay taxes. I guess I'll grab a chair.
Wow, they pay 9 billion of an overall total of 3.34 trillion. They pay their fair share for sure! No, my friends who have small businesses in home repair / landscaping never see declines when people in our area hire illegals for cheap who don't pay taxes...
The lower 87% barely pay into our tax revenues. If we start taxing the rich we'll have less investments into their own businesses with will inhibit job growth. editby]edit on 30-7-2018 by Throes because: (no reason given)
edit on 30-7-2018 by Throes because: (no reason
given)
originally posted by: Open_Minded Skeptic
a reply to: Southern Guardian
This is not a surprise to anybody with two working brain cells to rub together. The sole goal of this latest tax 'revision' (to use the term VERY loosely) is to further funnel more wealth into the top very few percent. No other goal, no other significant result.
S&F
Your name...its full of irony because ti seems you arent open minded or a skeptic in certain circumstances eh? Who do you think employs the workers? both sides are needed to do anything.
Doesn't matter if the tax cuts are to blame, The blame still goes to Trump as president. Pretty horrible that in what is being hailed as the greatest
economy in the history of the world, that we have nationwide falling wages. we also had a GDP report front loaded to avoid future tariffs. The next
couple of quarters are going to be very ugly.
a reply to: Southern Guardian
LMAO
This is very similar to the AGW scam... if the data doesn't show what you want it to, manipulate it, call it an "adjustment," and slap an official sounding modifier onto it like "real" or "corrected" and push the lie.
Anyone who isn't better off since that tax cut isn't trying.
LMAO
This is very similar to the AGW scam... if the data doesn't show what you want it to, manipulate it, call it an "adjustment," and slap an official sounding modifier onto it like "real" or "corrected" and push the lie.
Anyone who isn't better off since that tax cut isn't trying.
originally posted by: Throes
Wow, they pay 9 billion of an overall total of 3.34 trillion. They pay their fair share for sure! No, my friends who have small businesses in home repair / landscaping never see declines when people in our area hire illegals for cheap who don't pay taxes...
How much do you think their economic peers pay? The bottom 50% makes up 1% of the wealth in the country. They simply don't have the assets to tax. You could tax the bottom say 25% on 100% of their incomes and it wouldn't even budge tax revenues.
a reply to: Southern Guardian
So, what I'm gathering from your Vox article, wages are going up in dollar amount, just now when compared to inflation.
Also, it notes that two quarters, let alone one, isn't enough time to gauge the effect of the tax cuts on personal wages.
Futhermore, it talks about the drop in unemployment, which is a good thing--begging anyone with critical-thinking skills to maybe consider the point that, instead of putting money saved by the tax cuts immediately into massive wage hikes, employers have instead chosen to spend that money on hiring more people.
if you ask me, the latter option is the better one--I'd much rather see more people working than a few making a bit more than they did last year.
Then you must consider the manipulation of the inflation rate that occurs when the Federal Reserve dicks around with inflation rates and if/when they increase or decrease them--many say that the delay in raising rates has caused an inflation issue as of late, which could also contribute to the drop in "real wages."
Then you must take into account the issue(s) and financial burdens that (hopefully) temporary tariffs are placing on businesses, which could be negating any money surpluses gain by tax-rate cuts.
Then there is the issue of employer monopsony, which allows large employers to continue paying low or stagnant wages because they control a massive portion of a certain type of employment.
See, here's the thing about economic issues--they're not as simple as a single graph presented on Twitter.
So, what I'm gathering from your Vox article, wages are going up in dollar amount, just now when compared to inflation.
Also, it notes that two quarters, let alone one, isn't enough time to gauge the effect of the tax cuts on personal wages.
Futhermore, it talks about the drop in unemployment, which is a good thing--begging anyone with critical-thinking skills to maybe consider the point that, instead of putting money saved by the tax cuts immediately into massive wage hikes, employers have instead chosen to spend that money on hiring more people.
if you ask me, the latter option is the better one--I'd much rather see more people working than a few making a bit more than they did last year.
Then you must consider the manipulation of the inflation rate that occurs when the Federal Reserve dicks around with inflation rates and if/when they increase or decrease them--many say that the delay in raising rates has caused an inflation issue as of late, which could also contribute to the drop in "real wages."
Then you must take into account the issue(s) and financial burdens that (hopefully) temporary tariffs are placing on businesses, which could be negating any money surpluses gain by tax-rate cuts.
Then there is the issue of employer monopsony, which allows large employers to continue paying low or stagnant wages because they control a massive portion of a certain type of employment.
See, here's the thing about economic issues--they're not as simple as a single graph presented on Twitter.
a reply to: Throes
Thanks for keeping putting words in my mouth / keyboard. Again, I didn't say that you should tax the rich more. But thanks for playing.
Also, show me where illegal immigrants don't pay taxes. You said they don't, I said they do and showed the data.
My chair is very comfy, I'll keep on waiting
Thanks for keeping putting words in my mouth / keyboard. Again, I didn't say that you should tax the rich more. But thanks for playing.
Also, show me where illegal immigrants don't pay taxes. You said they don't, I said they do and showed the data.
My chair is very comfy, I'll keep on waiting
Hundreds of thousands of new jobs, starting at entry level wages... You're bond to see a statistical wage average drop, as older established positions
with higher pay retire, and entry level jobs replace them ; As well as new entry level positions being created in new industrial endeavors.
originally posted by: CrawlingChaos
Hundreds of thousands of new jobs, starting at entry level wages... You're bond to see a statistical wage average drop, as older established positions with higher pay retire, and entry level jobs replace them ; As well as new entry level positions being created in new industrial endeavors.
Entry level people are people who lack job skills. If we have such a glut of entry level jobs right now, it suggests we're in for a serious lack of skills among the work force for the next 30+ years.
edit on 30-7-2018 by Aazadan because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Aazadan
Our nation's financial underpinnings are pretty equal and level. So a Green Grocer who has to pick up a set of tools and go to work as an apprentice electrician will see a drop in his wages, for around three or four years. But then he's on the way to a more comfortable life, away from Amazon, and it's Whole Foods appendage. That grocer already has many mental tools, but it will take him an apprenticeship to recover from Amazon. NYT's reporter Tom Wicker, lectured at WSU, about 1969, on "Gulfsterian Winds of Change". Amazon is a Typhoon in this regard. And our financial underpinnings like to add taxes onto each level, as a multiplier, between the manufacturer and the Retail Shop Fronts.
In the end, Amazon may induce America to do a rethink to all of this add ons, at each level of our distribution chains.
Our nation's financial underpinnings are pretty equal and level. So a Green Grocer who has to pick up a set of tools and go to work as an apprentice electrician will see a drop in his wages, for around three or four years. But then he's on the way to a more comfortable life, away from Amazon, and it's Whole Foods appendage. That grocer already has many mental tools, but it will take him an apprenticeship to recover from Amazon. NYT's reporter Tom Wicker, lectured at WSU, about 1969, on "Gulfsterian Winds of Change". Amazon is a Typhoon in this regard. And our financial underpinnings like to add taxes onto each level, as a multiplier, between the manufacturer and the Retail Shop Fronts.
In the end, Amazon may induce America to do a rethink to all of this add ons, at each level of our distribution chains.
a reply to: Southern Guardian
The latest case of TDS. You shouldn't blindly parrot Democrat party "alt facts"
Fact is, it is NOT a "wealthy" tax cut. For the next 10 years, the tax cuts overwhelming benefit middle class Americans (hence the great economy/low unemployment/higher take-home wages). You're actually referring to the period post-10 years, since the middle class cuts will expire (if they aren't expanded before that) leaving only wealthy/corporations.
Just curious here, but why shouldn't the wealthy/corporations get tax breaks? They are already paying far more than individuals.
Charging people more simply because they're successful is ridiculous, especially when you have a government that can't hold onto a penny it takes (not earns - takes)
The latest case of TDS. You shouldn't blindly parrot Democrat party "alt facts"
Fact is, it is NOT a "wealthy" tax cut. For the next 10 years, the tax cuts overwhelming benefit middle class Americans (hence the great economy/low unemployment/higher take-home wages). You're actually referring to the period post-10 years, since the middle class cuts will expire (if they aren't expanded before that) leaving only wealthy/corporations.
Just curious here, but why shouldn't the wealthy/corporations get tax breaks? They are already paying far more than individuals.
Charging people more simply because they're successful is ridiculous, especially when you have a government that can't hold onto a penny it takes (not earns - takes)
The Republican tax plan was signed into law just last month, and Democrats already have a well-worn, and misleading, talking point about it: 83 percent of the tax cuts go to the wealthiest 1 percent. That’s true for 2027 but only because most of the individual income tax changes expire by then.
In 2025 — the last year before those tax changes expire — a quarter of the tax cuts go to the top 1 percent.
It’s a classic case of politicians using a technically accurate statistic but without the context or explanation it requires. Without all the facts, the talking point leaves a misleading impression.
www.factcheck.org...
..and before you try to dismiss/discredit the source, please review their work. They are non-partisan.
As you can see, your statement only applies to 2027 not 2018 and is very misleading (as the article points out). Hopefully, in the mean time, the conservative majority SCOTUS will rule the direct & unapportioned tax on income unconstitutional as Article I, Section 2 of the Constitution makes clear.
edit on 7/30/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)
Wages probably didn’t go down, it’s more than likely the manipulation of data aimed at hurting Trump. If wages did go down I suspect it is not due
to the tax cuts. I own 2 businesses, 1 ties to agriculture and 1 to construction. I employee around 200 people who all make middle class incomes. What
I do know for sure; The tax savings for businesses will encourage businesses to reinvest, grow and become more financially sound by keeping more of
the money they earn within the businesss. Many of my competitors are using foreign workers and driving wages down. I know many liberals want to
pretend that foreign workers “only do jobs Americans don’t want to do”. This is total BS. I believe some good first steps in helping our economy
are protecting our borders, utilizing only merit based immigration and holding employers accountable for using undocumented workers. Americans need to
be the priority of our leaders. Nowadays it seems the Dems care more about protecting illegals and criminals than Americans.
originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: Southern Guardian
Okay so let’s see if you answer this time
Do you have any proof that trumps tax cuts are to blame for the wage drop? Something besides your anecdotal account?
How do you know the wages would not have dropped anyways?
What do you propose should be done to fix this wage issue? Hmm? You got a suggestion? I’d like to hear it. Usually all we hear from the left is a bunch of whining but no ideas on how to fix what they are whining about. So let’s hear it what’s your suggestion?
The fact of the matter is, Republicans control every facet of the government right now and have so for close to 18 months. Regardless if it is the tax cuts of whatever other policy it is that caused a downturn in wages... it is owned by the republicans in office at this very minute.
It appears IQ's are tanking more so than wages -
Forbes - Trumps Economic Score card
Forbes - Trumps Economic Score card
Hourly wages trending up but still below expectations Hourly wages have moved up from the 2% zone during 2009- 2014 to the 2.5% to 2.9% range the past three-plus years. One reason they haven’t moved higher (as many have expected they should due to the tight labor market) may be due to higher paid individuals leaving the workforce who are then replaced by newer entrants at lower wages.
Trump's tax cuts were just another money grab by the rich, transferring yet more wealth from the middle class to the upper class. We are moving faster
and faster towards a tipping point, 40 years in the making. Dumb. We can only pray that it does not lead to civil war. We will lose even more then.
You never know the long term affect of an economic decision based on what happens immediately afterward. Dropping tariffs had wonderful
short term economic outcomes when it happened in the late 90's.
Real wages spiked, because the lowering of prices of consumer goods hit right away, but the affect of competing with desperate third world workers took a while to begin eroding American wages in comparable jobs.
Wait for the slower arriving effects to arrive before passing judgement.
Right.. Except that isn't how the American welfare system works.
Our system hooks you, and then threatens to pull all support immediately if you get a job, meaning you will need to make the transition from state support to self-support with no way to pay for your housing.
People who end up on welfare tend to END up on welfare.
The trouble with the switching jobs thing is you're telling people to invest in gaining a skill set, and then when it doesn't work out, invest in another skillset, and then when that doesn't work out, invest in another..........
I know people with upwards of $50,000 in college debt for degrees they can't use. Where would they get the money to keep doing it?
You only have 80 years to live. If we were immortal, then spending 20+ years learning 5 or 6 different trades, it would eventually pay off in the long run.
But as mortal humans? There is no long run. It doesn't exist. You live and then you die.
Real wages spiked, because the lowering of prices of consumer goods hit right away, but the affect of competing with desperate third world workers took a while to begin eroding American wages in comparable jobs.
Wait for the slower arriving effects to arrive before passing judgement.
originally posted by: Aazadan
originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Aazadan
yes, I'm also not doing it for financial reasons
also I'm not a 45 year old with a family or a 35 year with a family, that isn't an excuse for being totally dismissive with incredibly hardworking people who literally build our nation
LITERALLY build it
Maybe they should have made better choices and not started a family when they didn't have a lifetime career lined up?
Or maybe we should practice a bit of socialism so that when people inevitably come on hard times, they can pivot and recover.
Right.. Except that isn't how the American welfare system works.
Our system hooks you, and then threatens to pull all support immediately if you get a job, meaning you will need to make the transition from state support to self-support with no way to pay for your housing.
People who end up on welfare tend to END up on welfare.
originally posted by: Aazadan
originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: SummerRain
Yeah if only that’s all they did. They are into everything. Plumbing, electrical, roofing, painting, all the used to be good paying trades are paying shhht right now because of this.
Maybe those tradesmen should take it on themselves to switch jobs into something more competitive then?
The trouble with the switching jobs thing is you're telling people to invest in gaining a skill set, and then when it doesn't work out, invest in another skillset, and then when that doesn't work out, invest in another..........
I know people with upwards of $50,000 in college debt for degrees they can't use. Where would they get the money to keep doing it?
You only have 80 years to live. If we were immortal, then spending 20+ years learning 5 or 6 different trades, it would eventually pay off in the long run.
But as mortal humans? There is no long run. It doesn't exist. You live and then you die.