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New PLAAF Light Fighter

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posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 04:19 PM
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Some concept artwork and models of the proposed LFC-16 light fighter


中国LFC-16轻型高敏捷性战斗机


  2004年珠海航展结束后,一些网上的统计得出了一个出人意料的事实:最吸引网友眼球的即不是叱咤蓝天的SU-27 战斗机,也不是漂亮轻巧的L-15高级教练机,而是贵航展台上外观怪异的LFC-16高敏捷性战斗机模型。

  事实上不光是中国网友对它感兴趣,即便是国外媒体,对这架飞机也表现出了一定的兴趣,美国《航空周刊与 航天技术》杂志对它的评价是:“令人迷惑的模型”。


  是的,这架飞机不但外形让人迷惑、编号让人迷惑,连它的身世、用途都是一串令人迷惑的问题。那么,让我 们走近这架飞机并回顾历史,共同揭开这些迷题。

  根据贵航的官方解释,LFC-16代表“轻型(Light)战斗机(Fighter)中国(China)-16”,16为贵航的内部编号。这架战斗机 贵航集团与民间飞机设计公司“超翼”公司合作,以“山鹰”高级教练机的机体为基础,采用侧板鸭式布局技术 计而成的轻型高机动战斗机方案。这个战斗机方案的特点是:低价格、高机动,安装了较为简单的电子设备,属 格斗型廉价机种,同时具备一定的对地攻击能力。

  LFC-16的发展历程

  LFC-16战斗机可以看见的历程可以追溯到两年前。早在2002年珠海航展上,这架飞机便以CY-1的编号出现在观众面 。那时候的CY-1是一个基于歼7机体的侧板鸭式布局高机动战斗机方案,它已经具备了LFC-16战斗机的最基本特征: 式布局和侧板技术。根据它的研究者“超翼”公司的介绍,CY -1的机动性将明显好于歼7系列飞机,盘旋性能接近F-16战斗机。而这架飞机不可见的历程则更加久远,据介绍,侧 技术和鸭式布局最早可以追溯到几十年前,中国研究“抬式布局”的年代(抬式布局也属于鸭式布局的一种,主要 了增大战斗机的升阻比,改善飞机的起降性能等),具体就不再详述了。

  但是当年的CY-1完全处于民间运营状态。众所周知,研制一架现代战斗机需要解决气动、材料、发动机、航电 一系列问题,仅仅是气动研究就需要花费大量的时间和金钱,这是普通的民间公司根本无法完成的工作。根据“ 翼”公司的介绍,早期的侧板鸭式布局技术曾经通过北航、空军等相关单位的协助,做过一定的吹风试验,然而 得了部分数据后这架飞机却因为没有用户的潜在需求而无法得到继续发展的资金,于是在航展上推出以寻求资金 的支持。

  很明显,“超翼”公司最终得到了贵航集团的合作意向。从外观上看,2004年出现在观众面前的LFC-16战斗机已 与CY-1有了不少区别。LFC- 16战斗机的机体基于“山鹰”高级教练机,但将双座改为单座,垂尾顶端也作了切尖处理,CY-1的主要特点鸭式布局 和机身侧板依然存在。LFC-16的外观看上去比CY-1更加协调,显然贵航的设施和设计经验都起了至关重要的作用。

  那么,LFC-16的未来如何?中国海空军是否会采购这种廉价的高机动战斗机呢?航展上并没有相关的信息透露, 不过我们可以从技术和战术的角度对其进行一定的分析。

  LFC-16战斗机的技术特点

  通常我们了解一架战斗机,会从飞行性能、航电设备、机载武器、后勤保障等几个方面着手,从而得到一个较 为客观的评价。同样,对于LFC-16,我们也如法炮制。

  飞行性能

  决定一架飞机飞行性能的是它的气动布局和发动机,LFC-16飞机沿用了“山鹰”的机体,因此从发动机方面来说 歼7系列能使用的发动机它都可以用,包括 WS-13系列、“昆仑”发动机等,考虑到FC-1战斗机已经使用了RD-93发动机,因此可以推测经过一定改动后LFC-6飞机也 能够使用中等推力涡扇发动机(不过这样一来进气道部分要做较大的修改,而且也不符合低价格策略,因此此方案 暂不予考虑)。从模型来看,LFC-16飞机与“山鹰”教练机在结构尺寸上并无太大差别,因此两架飞机的重量也会类 似,就是说如果使用同样的发动机,那么LFC-16的推重比以及动力性能将接近“山鹰”飞机。

  气动布局是LFC-16相对于“山鹰”改动最大的部分,也是实现“高机动”的关键所在。歼7系列飞机的气动布局 大后掠三角翼正常布局,这种布局突出了飞机的高空高速性能,但由于大后掠三角翼在大迎角状态时诱导阻力大 而且机头的不对称涡流会破坏横侧稳定性,因此不利于高机动格斗空战,在近距离格斗中会出现减速快、转弯半 过大、容易失速等现象。“山鹰”和歼7E/G战斗机采用了双三角机翼,增大了展弦比,从而改善了飞机的大迎角性 (有效降低诱导阻力并增大升力线斜率),因此中低空格斗性能有所改善。

  我们知道,近距耦合鸭式布局的优点是在大迎角时鸭翼涡流与机翼形成耦合效应,从而增大了机翼的升力;此 外近距耦合鸭式布局拥有更均匀的纵向面积分布,能够有效降低跨音速阻力,这些都能够提高飞机的机动性能。当 然,鸭式布局也有其缺点,比如对于静稳定设计的战斗机,鸭翼在大迎角时诱导阻力较大,其失速也早于机翼。而 且鸭翼的涡流可能导致飞机纵向和横侧的不稳定性增大。LFC-16在采取近距耦合鸭式布局的同时,还在鸭翼和机翼之 间增加了两条侧板,辅助以可随动操纵的侧鳍,那么这些翼面起什么作用呢?根据“超翼”公司人员的介绍,歼8II 飞机的总设计师顾诵芬先生曾经将侧板技术总结为“涡控”技术,笔者认为其主要作用就是在飞机处于大迎角的状 态时产生类似边条涡的涡流,同鸭翼的涡流共同干扰机翼,并防止鸭翼前缘涡破裂导致涡升力不连续,从而提高了 飞机在大迎角时的操纵稳定性。而侧鳍则提供了额外的横侧稳定性控制。因此,LFC-16应该在保证低成本的同时具备 较好的大迎角控制能力(在现代电传操纵配合下,运用随控布局设计的飞机同样拥有较好的大迎角飞行性能,但是 代价相当高),从而使飞机在盘旋、俯仰等方面拥有良好的性能,而这正是格斗空战所强调的要素之一。

  但是在其他方面,鸭式布局+侧板也导致飞机的阻力增大,考虑到发动机的因素,这架飞机在加速性能、爬升 能等方面将不会比歼7系列有明显改善,而飞机的航程、升限等指标也不会比歼7系列强多少。此外还有几点需要指 出:侧板将不利于飞机的隐身,而且如果脱离了鸭式布局,那么侧板的作用将大大降低。

  航电设备、机载武器、后勤保障

  由于LFC-16目前只是一个技术方案,因此这些方面还没有明确的指标。不过从其廉价的特点看,应该和歼7系列 属一个档次,也就是说,这架飞机可能会配备功能简单的雷达和相关火控设备,采用尽可能简单的机载设备和飞 仪表,武器方面则可以选择空军现役武库中的所有国产空空武器和大多数空地武器。

  性能总体评价

  从上面的分析可以看出,LFC-16飞机将是一种中低空盘旋性能突出、总体机动水平低于典型三代战斗机的格斗型 战斗机,它的超视距作战能力并不突出,但在近距离空战时能够给大多数飞机造成威胁。很显然,如果仅仅如此, 中国空军、海军对其是不会有多大兴趣的,因为在已经进入系统空战时代的今天,不强调超视距空战能力的战斗机 将很少有进入近距离格斗的机会。作为一种战斗机而言,LFC-16即便发展下去也将落后于时代的潮流。

  关于LFC-16的展望与思考

  虽然LFC-16不是一架出色的战斗机,然而它是否有可能更出色呢?答案是肯定的。首先,电传技术的成熟已经使 飞机设计观念进入到全新的时代,采用主动控制技术和静不安定的布局将能够最大程度的发挥鸭式布局的优点并在 一定程度上克服其缺点,比如改善高速飞行性能、实现直接升力等。世界上一些新型战斗机均采用了这个思路,比 如法国的“阵风”、欧洲的“台风”、中国的“歼10”等。其次,综合化火控系统和模块化航电升级的设计思想使 飞机在电子设备方面的升级变得更加容易,而电子设备的优劣将直接关系到空战性能的好坏。

  但是这一切都意味着要放弃廉价的思路,很显然,这就违背了LFC-16发展的初衷,从工程的角度看并不可取。

  然而如果我们换个角度来看,侧板技术确实给飞机的性能带来了好处,那么我们为什么不把LFC-16飞机看作一种 意义重大的技术验证飞机呢?毕竟侧板技术是不能被否定的。

  我们都知道,美国NASA发展出了数量众多的X系列技术验证机,从超音速到机动性,其验证的技术无所不包,而 这些验证机中得到的技术已经运用到飞机的设计中去。中国也有不少技术验证机,比如歼7隐身技术试验机、歼8II 主动控制技术验证机等,但这些大都出自厂家的行为或者空军的研究项目,并无一个专门的机构进行总体规划和负 责——如果这一切都成体系发展,在科学的理论指导下开展工作,那么势必将取得更好的科研效果。

  回过头来看 LFC-16,或许贵航也会因为没有市场意向而最终放弃这种飞机的发展,但侧板技术却绝不应该只停留于风洞计算阶段 。我们可能应该将LFC-16的出现看作一个信号,一个呼吁中国航空科研机构进行改革的信号,LFC-16作为一种技术验证 机,其意义将远大于作为一种廉价的战斗机。或许有朝一日,侧板技术将在其他作战飞机乃至民用飞机上得到体现 ,这才是LFC-16飞机的真正价值。(歼六)












posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 04:21 PM
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A rough translation courtesy of babelfish


Chinese LFC-16 light high agile fighter aircraft After in 2004 Zhuhai 航展 ended, some on-line statistics have obtained a beyond expectation fact: Most attracts 网友 the eyeball namely scolds 咤 the blue sky SU-27 fighter aircraft, also is not the attractive dexterous L-15 advanced training machine, but is on the expensive navigation booth the outward appearance strange LFC-16 high agile fighter aircraft model. In fact not only is Chinese 网友 is interested to it, even if is the overseas media, also displayed the certain interest to this airplane, US "Aviation Weekly And Astronautics Technology" the magazine to its appraisal is: "Makes the model which one confuses". Yes, this airplane not only the contour lets the person confuse, the serial number lets the person confuse, including its life experience, the use all is a string makes the question which one confuses. Then, lets us approach this airplane and the review history, opened these to confuse together the topic. According to the expensive navigation official explanation, LFC-16 represents "(Light) lightly the fighter aircraft (Fighter) China (China) -16", 16 for expensive navigation internal serial number. This fighter aircraft is the expensive navigation group and the civil plane design company "the ultra wing" the company cooperates, take "the mountain hawk" the advanced training machine organism as the foundation, uses light high mobile fighter aircraft plan which the side bar canard technical design becomes. This fighter aircraft plan characteristic is: The low price, high was mobile, has installed the simpler electronic installation, belonged to the wrestle inexpensive machine kind, simultaneously had certainly certainly to the place attack capability. LFC-16 development course The LFC-16 fighter aircraft may see the course may trace to two years ago. As early as in 2002 at Zhuhai 航展, this airplane then appears by the CY-1 serial number in front of the audience. That time CY-1 is based on annihilates 7 organisms the side bar canard high mobile fighter aircraft plans, it has already had the LFC-16 fighter aircraft most basic characteristic: Canard and side bar technology. According to its researcher "the ultra wing" company's introduction, the CY -1 mobility obvious will be good to annihilates 7 series airplanes, the turning performance approaches the F-16 fighter aircraft. But this airplane not obviously course then even more remote, it is reported, the side bar technology and the canard most early may trace to several dozens years ago, China studies "lifts the type layout" the age (to lift type layout also to belong to canard one kind, mainly in order to increase fighter aircraft 升阻比, improves airplane take off and landing performance and so on), was concrete no longer relates in detail. But same year CY-1 completely was at the folk operation condition. It is well known, develops a modern fighter aircraft to need to solve, the material, the engine, the navigation electricity air operated and so on a series of questions, merely is the air operated research needs to spend the massive time and the money, this is the work which the ordinary folk company radically is unable to complete. According to "the ultra wing" company's introduction, the early side bar canard technology through correlation unit's the and so on northern navigation, air force assistance, did certainly has caught a chill the experiment, after however obtained the partial data this airplane actually because of not to have the fund which the user the latent demand was unable to obtain continues to develop, thereupon promoted at 航展 seeks in the fund the support. Very obvious, "the ultra wing" the company finally obtained the expensive navigation group's cooperation intention. From seemingly looked that, in 2004 appeared in front of audience's LFC-16 fighter aircraft already had many differences with CY-1. LFC- 16 fighter aircrafts organisms based on "mountain hawk" advanced training machine, but 双座 will change single-seat, the vertical stabilizer peak also will do has cut sharp processing, the CY-1 main characteristic canard and the fuselage side bar still exists. The LFC-16 outward appearance looked is more coordinated than CY-1, obviously the expensive navigation facility and the design experience all played the very important role. Then, LFC-16 future how? Whether the China sea air force can purchase this kind of inexpensive high mobile fighter aircraft? At 航展 has not certainly been connected the information disclosed, but we may carry on the certain analysis from technical and the tactical angle to it. LFC-16 fighter aircraft technical characteristic Usually we understood a fighter aircraft, can from the flight performance, the navigation electricity equipment, the airborne weapon, the logistics support and so on several aspects begin, thus obtains a more objective appraisal. Similarly, regarding LFC-16, we also follows a set pattern. Flight performance Decided an airplane flight performance is its air operated layout and the engine, the LFC-16 airplane has continued to use "the mountain hawk" the organism, therefore from the engine aspect said annihilates the engine which 7 series can use it all to be allowed to use, including the WS-13 series, "Kunlun Mountains" the engine and so on, considered the FC-1 fighter aircraft has already used the RD-93 engine, after therefore may extrapolate will pass through the certain modification the LFC-6 airplane also to be able to use the medium thrust force 涡fan engine (then air intake to be only partial must make a bigger revision, moreover will not conform to low price strategy, therefore this plan might temporarily not give consideration). Looked from the model that, the LFC-16 airplane the trainer aircraft and does not have too wide difference with "the mountain hawk" in the structure size, therefore two airplanes weights also can be similar, is said if uses the same engine, then the LFC-16 thrust ratio as well as the power performance will approach "the mountain hawk" the airplane. The air operated layout is LFC-16 is opposite to "the mountain hawk" modifies the most major part, also is realizes "high is mobile" the key is at. Annihilates 7 series airplanes the air operated layouts for the big swept back 三角翼 normal arrangement, this kind of layout has highlighted the airplane upper air high speed performance, but because big swept back 三角翼 in big angle of attack condition time induced drag big, moreover the nose the rotationally symmetric flow cannot destroy the horizontal side stability, therefore is disadvantageous to the high mobile wrestle air fight, can appear in the near distance wrestle decelerates, the radius of turn quickly oversized, is easy to lose speed and so on the phenomenon. "The mountain hawk" and annihilated the 7E/G fighter aircraft to use the double delta wing, has increased the aspect ratio, thus improved the airplane big angle of attack performance (effectively to reduce induced drag and to increase lift curve slope), therefore center the low altitude wrestle performance had the improvement. We knew, the short-range coupling canard merit is when the big angle of attack the duck wing turbulent flow and the wing form the coupling effect, thus has increased the wing lifting force; In addition the short-range coupling canard has the evener longitudinal area distribution, can effectively reduce the transonic drag, these all can enhance the airplane the maneuvering performance. Certainly, the canard also has its shortcoming, for instance regarding 静稳定 design fighter aircraft, duck wing when big angle of attack the induced drag is bigger, it loses speed also is earlier than the wing. Moreover the duck wing turbulent flow possibly causes the airplane longitudinal and the horizontal side instability increases. LFC-16 while adopts the short-range coupling canard, but also increased two side bars between the duck wing and the wing, assists by may the servo control side fin, then these 翼面 what affects? According to "the ultra wing" the company personnel's introduction, annihilated Mr. 8II airplane chief designer Gu Songfen once was "涡controls" the side bar technology summary the technology, the author thought its main function was was at the big angle of attack when the airplane the condition produces the similar side strip 涡turbulent flow, disturbed the wing together with the duck wing turbulent flow, and prevented the duck wing 前缘涡burst causes 涡the lifting force not continuously, thus enhanced the airplane in big angle of attack time operation stability. But leaned the fin to provide the extra horizontal side stability control. Therefore, LFC-16 should in guarantee the low cost simultaneously has the better big angle of attack control (under modern fax operation coordination, utilizes along with controls layout design airplane similarly to have better big angle of attack flight performance, but its price is quite high), thus causes the airplane to circle, to deal with and so on the aspect has the good performance, but this is precisely wrestles one of essential factors which the air fight emphasized. But in other aspects, the canard + side bar also causes the airplane drag increment, considered the engine the factor, this airplane in aspect and so on pick-up, climb will not be able compared to annihilate 7 series to have the distinct improvement, but the airplane range, 升限 and so on the target will not be able to compare annihilates 7 will be big powers how many. In addition also has several point needs to point out that, The side bar will be disadvantageous to the airplane stealth, moreover if has been separated from the canard, then the side bar function greatly will reduce. Navigation electricity equipment, airborne weapon, logistics support Because LFC-16 at present is only a technical plan, therefore these aspects do not have the explicit target. But looked from its inexpensive characteristic that, should with annihilate 7 series with to be a scale, in other words, this airplane possibly can provide the function simple radar and the correlation fire control equipment, uses as far as possible the simple board installation and the aircraft instrument, the weapon aspect may choose in the air force active duty arsenal the all domestically produced empty weapon and the majority open area weapon. Performance overall appraisal May see from the above analysis, the LFC-16 airplane will be one kind of center low altitude turning performance is prominent, the overall mobile level is lower than the model three generation of fighter aircrafts the wrestle fighter aircrafts, its beyond line of sight operational capacity is not certainly prominent, but when near distance air fight can give the majority airplane to pose the threat. Very obviously, if merely so, the Chinese air force, navy's are cannot have the big interest to it, because already is entering system air fight time today, did not emphasize the beyond line of sight air fight ability the fighter aircraft very little will have enters the near distance wrestle the opportunity. Says as one kind of fighter aircraft, LFC-16 even if will develop also will fall behind the time tidal current. About LFC-16 forecast and ponder Although LFC-16 is not a splendid fighter aircraft, however it whether does have the possibility to be more splendid? The answer is firmly. First, the fax technology mature already caused the airplane design idea to enter to the brand-new time, will use the initiative control technology and the static unstable layout can the greatest degree display canard merit and overcomes its shortcoming in the certain degree, for instance improvement high-speed flight performance, realization direct lifting force and so on. In the world some new fighter aircrafts have used this mentality, for instance France "a wind", Europe "the typhoon", China "annihilates 10" and so on. Next, the integrated fire control system and the modular navigation electricity promotes the design thought causes the airplane to change in the electronic installation aspect promotion easily, but the electronic installation fit and unfit quality directly will relate the air fight performance the quality. But all these meant must give up the inexpensive mentality, is very obvious, this has violated the LFC-16 development original intention, from the project angle looked certainly may not take. However if we trade an angle to look, the side bar technology truly gave the airplane the performance to bring the advantage, why then we didn't regard as the LFC-16 airplane one kind of watershed technology confirmation airplane? The side bar technology is after all cannot negative. We all knew that, American NASA developed the quantity multitudinous X series technology confirmation machine, from the supersonic 速到 mobility, its confirmation technology was all-embracing, but the technology which obtained from these confirmations machine already utilizes the airplane in the design. China also has many technical confirmation machine, for instance annihilates 7 stealth technologies testing machine, annihilates the 8II initiative control technology confirmation machine and so on, but these mostly stem from the factory the behavior or air force's research project, and does not have a special organization to carry on the overall plan and to be responsible □□if all these adult is the development, does the work under the science theory instruction, then the potential will certainly to obtain the better scientific research effect. Has turned head looks at LFC-16, perhaps the expensive navigation also can because of not have the market intention but finally to give up this kind of airplane the development, but the side bar technology actually should not only pause to the wind tunnel computation stage. We possibly should regard as the LFC-16 appearance a signal, appealed the Chinese aviation scientific research institution carries on the reform the signal, LFC-16 took one kind of technical confirmation machine, its significance far will be bigger than the achievement one kind of inexpensive fighter aircraft. Perhaps some day, the side bar technology will obtain on other battle airplanes and even the civil aircraft manifests, now at last will be the LFC-16 airplane true value. (Annihilates six)



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 06:25 PM
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I think this is suppose to be a cheap and crappy plane and not developed by the government



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 08:31 PM
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That looks remarkably like an F-16, or even that Taiwanese Indiginous fighter they were developing before the US sold them F-16s.


D

posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 11:05 PM
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Looks more like the Saab Viggen.



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 04:58 AM
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very skiny fighter so ugly haha



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 07:37 AM
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Looks like a cross between a F20 Tigershark and a F16 Falcon.....Both very old designs btw. Why spend effort, time, and money developing "old" style tech? Just buy an F16 or a MiG and save yourself the effort.

[edit on 22-2-2005 by skippytjc]



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 07:46 AM
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Looks like a SAAB Grippen to me... which is actually a very modern fighter




posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 02:35 PM
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You all must be joking! F-16? Gripen??


It is nothing more than a revamped MiG 21 which was first proposed (without canards) more than a decade ago. Its just been tarted up a bit and is NOTHING like any of the planes mentioned above.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 06:44 AM
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Originally posted by waynos
You all must be joking! F-16? Gripen??


It is nothing more than a revamped MiG 21 which was first proposed (without canards) more than a decade ago. Its just been tarted up a bit and is NOTHING like any of the planes mentioned above.

I fail to see any resemblance between a MiG-21 Fishbed and this new Chinese fighter design. They are both single engine planes and neither has a bubble canopy... that's about it.


Where am I wrong Waynos? I'm quite puzzled because I rarely if ever disagree with you...




[edit on 23-2-2005 by intelgurl]

[edit on 23-2-2005 by intelgurl]



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 07:35 AM
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PROGRAMME

In 1986 China signed a US$550 million agreement with Grumman to modernise its J-7 (MiG-21 Fishbed) fighter aircraft under the "Super-7" upgrade project. Western companies from the US and Britain were competing to provide the engine and avionics. The project was cancelled in early 1990, in the wake of the cooling of political relations with the West, as well as in response to a 40% increase in the cost of the project. However, Chengdu managed to continue the programme with its own resources and the project was re-branded as FC-1 (Fighter China-1).

Following the 1993 US sanction against China and Pakistan on the transfer of ballistic missile components and technology, problems of acquiring Western technology has driven Pakistan to seek helps from its Chinese ally. Beijing and Islamabad concluded a joint development and production agreement in June 1999 to co-develop the FC-1 fighter aircraft. According to the agreement, China Aviation Import and Export Corporation (CATIC) and Pakistan each contribute 50% of the development costs, which was estimated as about US$150 million. Chengdu was chosen to be the primary contractor, with Russian Mikoyan Aero-Science Production Group (MASPG) providing assistance in some design work as well as its RD-93 turbofan engine to power the aircraft.

The first FC-1 rolled out from the assembly line on 31 May 2003, and its 15-minute maiden flight took place on 24 August 2003. So far four prototypes have been built, with the second for static tests and the rest in flying tests. The initial production of 16 aircraft is expected to start in mid-2006, and the PAF has a requirement for 150 aircraft under the designation of the JF-17 to replace its Chengdu F-7P fighters in current service. Pakistani aviation industry will also be involved in the production of some avionics for the aircraft.

The FC-1/JF-17 targets mainly the international market as a potential replacement for the second-generation fighters such as the Northrop F-5 Tiger, Dassault Mirage III/5, Shenyang J-6, MiG-21/F-7 Fishbed, and Nanchang Q-5 aircraft. CATIC and CAC are trying to persuade the PLAAF to acquire additional FC-1s to reduce the unit price, but a firm contract has yet been reached. In addition, CATIC/CAC is also trying to promote the aircraft to other potential customers including Bangladesh, Egypt and Nigeria.


From www.sinodefence.com...



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 08:50 AM
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Even Im stumped here..
How come MiG-21 Fishbed??

Maybe somebody's got hold of waynos' account!!

Maybe waynos has some knowledge of the LFC that we don't..
He's pretty ancient you know!!Wise elder!!

To me the intakes remind me ofthe LCA along with the cockpit..
But Im NOT saying its a copy!!..



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 09:00 AM
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Originally posted by intelgurl

Originally posted by waynos
You all must be joking! F-16? Gripen??


It is nothing more than a revamped MiG 21 which was first proposed (without canards) more than a decade ago. Its just been tarted up a bit and is NOTHING like any of the planes mentioned above.

I fail to see any resemblance between a MiG-21 Fishbed and this new Chinese fighter design. They are both single engine planes and neither has a bubble canopy... that's about it.


Where am I wrong Waynos? I'm quite puzzled because I rarely if ever disagree with you...






Actially It looks more like a merger between Rafale (or JAS-39) and MiG-27 The design obviously has drawn upon maany previous aircraft.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 01:42 PM
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Sorry to take so long to reply guys and gal, just seen the above.

The changes are so far reaching that it is quite hard to see any trace of the MiG 21 in the pic, though a clue is the very MiG 21 like model behind it which is part of an earlier and related programme.

The introduction of the solid nose and lateral intakes is the biggest part of the disguise to give it a more'modern' look but these are purely cosmetic changes and the airframe structure is almost unaltered under the skin. I saw a detailed report on the original project several years ago in Flight International and this one is the same aircraft with canards fitted to (my guess) enhance its instantaneous turn rate.

The wing is virtually unaltered from the MiG 21 except for the addition of wingtip missile rails and I have seen another pic showing a 'double delta' wing similar to the one that was fitted to the Su-15 Flagon, though I would hope more advanced. The circular fuselage section of the MiG 21 survives unchaged as does the MiG 21 undercarriage.

When you've been gawping at planes for as long as I have to get to know the signs, lol. Oh, and thanks for calling me ancient



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 01:49 PM
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Wow, looks like something we would have built!

(about 3 decades ago....)



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 01:57 PM
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I have tried to find pictures that illustrate the link but it isn't easy.

in the two below check out the wing and fuselage in the centre and look how on the model the ventral fins at the back are mounted in modified form where the MiG 21's tailplane went.






posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 02:02 PM
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Waynos is right, it's definitly an upgraded MiG-21.

Why go through so much trouble? export sales?



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 06:45 PM
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Waynos... are you not reffering to FC-1?



This new light fighter is something new... only a concept as of now.

Yes it's based upon the mig-21... as are all the planes behind it, however it is cheap as a result.

The J8 (2nd model)... can carry a very powerful radar in it's body making it ideal for stand-off... while the new light attacker can go in and clean up whats left over



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 12:44 PM
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I think the FC-1 grew out of the programme I was referring to, I think it was called something like the 'Super-7' as it was based on the Chengdu J-7 copy of the -21, and was initially just a J-7 with a solid nose and side intakes. Later on a modified wing (as I mentioned above) was tested and the later FC-1 ended up being a complete re-design. This is from memory though so a bit of googling might be in order on this subject.



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo
Waynos is right, it's definitly an upgraded MiG-21.

Why go through so much trouble? export sales?


The MiG-21 was a fine fighter in its day. A modernized version of it could have all sorts of capabilities. Countries like China border on a lot of other countries so they are facing potential conflict against many different fos. A fighter like this could save the PRC from having to build an entirely new design and still outclass many of the aircaft it could be used to counter.



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