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Deadly ICE Detention

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posted on Jul, 27 2018 @ 09:45 AM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker

Thanks for that.

Yes, we agree on many things. Which is why I'm eager to learn why you took a rather defensive stance with false equivalency regarding alleged death tolls in Germany and all that.

Let's forget all that and start again, shall we?
(Edit - I just found your other post. Thanks again, honesty is a rare gift these days.)

High,

I'm PubOps! How are you doing today, may I offer some ICE for your drinks?





edit on 27-7-2018 by PublicOpinion because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 27 2018 @ 09:53 AM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion


I'm PubOps! How are you doing today, may I offer some ICE for your drinks?


Lol, I see what you did there.

I'm all for constructive debate and I'll take ownership my comment looked and maybe was defensive.

Let me explain my frustration with buzzwords recently, specifically fascism. I think it's the wrong use of the word for one, and I think it just polarized the debate further making solutions impossible.

The only way we can truly solve this is by addressing the root problems, the west's (US mainly) foreign projection creating refugees.

While I did have a snafu in trying to show they have deaths, their is still a refugee crisis in Europe, most stemming from the Middle East.

We can focus on ICE or the prison system all day long and get no where. People are still dying in failed third world states, dying trying to escape, dying in transit to refuge and at the end of the day, better conditions in our detention centers would only save a few handfuls.



posted on Jul, 27 2018 @ 10:06 AM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker



You're implying fascism is at play. That is going to turn many people off to seeing your points of view, and it's simply not true. There are many reasons we're not fascist, mainly we have no dictator.


Now we're getting somewhere. Let's define the term:


1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
early instances of army fascism and brutality —J. W. Aldridge

www.merriam-webster.com...

The second part is a hit in my book already, but there's more:


“Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power”

Il Duce



You can complain about ICE till you're blue in the face. If 100 immigrants died in US custody, that is 100 to many, but still far less than how many people die trying to even get here in the first place. As I've said before, putting people in camps is just relocating their hopelessness. If we allow millions into the States, they will be competing against each other for a way of life, and many will get the short end of the stick.

Or... We stop our projection, stop supporting bad regimes, and actually make an effort to make the South American countries more habitable.


That's precisely why we need something like an UBI in order to address poverty. They don't only compete with each other, but with the poor and unemployed as well. Which is why nationalism is back on the rise pretty much everywhere in this global village of sorts.



posted on Jul, 27 2018 @ 10:13 AM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

I will give you creativity points, and will also say there is some validity to your statement. While I don't think it is of fascist levels yet it is certainly a problem. One that would be easier to address than most people think.

If we take away superpacs and regulate lobbyists we could have very quick returns.

Unfortunately we are straying away from true sink or swim capitalism, where the government crutches corporations in fear of the ramifications of their collapse. That gives them too much power and makes competition harder.

While I see your comparisons, I still think it diminishes the term fascist.



posted on Jul, 27 2018 @ 10:24 AM
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While I did have a snafu in trying to show they have deaths, their is still a refugee crisis in Europe, most stemming from the Middle East.

We can focus on ICE or the prison system all day long and get no where. People are still dying in failed third world states, dying trying to escape, dying in transit to refuge and at the end of the day, better conditions in our detention centers would only save a few handfuls.


There's another angle to this: the war against the people has reached the CONUS base. Why not detain legal aliens for mere misdemeanors as well then, this is an excellent base for the prision industrial complex expansion. I know. That's just the paranoid conspiracy theorists in my head, but he surely has a point there.

I'm your fellow Kraut from the other Europe. Ya know, the one that doesn't reach you through the MSM. I commented on every single refugee topic I saw on ATS and still feel ghosted. There never was a refugee crisis to begin with, it was a red tape crisis by design. They knew about all of this years in advance and all the "political incompetence" made this crisis happen in order to build up the "Fortress Europe" and Nanny States in a constant state of emergency.
You know the old saying, never let a good crisis go to waste!

It's the same with you guys in the US, except that it's worse, which is why this topic is in bitter need of attention.



posted on Jul, 27 2018 @ 10:50 AM
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originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: WarPig1939

Freedom and democracy to believe in!

You wanna hold the Mexican gubmint responsible for killing detainees with ill prepared ICE morons in the US? Well. You could try, right?


It was Mexico that allowed illegals to cross the border in the first place. Unless you think ICE is completely at fault for everything dealing with an overburdened deportation system



posted on Jul, 27 2018 @ 10:57 AM
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a reply to: WarPig1939

So you think they should be more like... I dunno... North Korea or the DDR?
With walls and all that?

What happened to the freedom of movement btw?



posted on Jul, 27 2018 @ 11:14 AM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

Kudos to your mission. I'm with you, just want to take a different angle. Like I said, there is no solving this without reevaluating how the west operates abroad.



posted on Jul, 27 2018 @ 11:41 AM
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originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: WarPig1939

So you think they should be more like... I dunno... North Korea or the DDR?
With walls and all that?

What happened to the freedom of movement btw?


Seriously? We are a country with laws and borders like the rest of the world. We cannot let anyone in the country without proper procedures and documents. This has been going on for decades, stop with the faux outrage.
edit on 27-7-2018 by WarPig1939 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2018 @ 05:34 AM
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a reply to: WarPig1939

Rrrright. Must be faux outrage when people don't die...err... keep dying in solitary confinement for refusing to perform voluntary labor.
Not your Fox outrage, either. My friends keep calling it compassion, do you have any friends? And I don't mean on ATS.



We cannot let anyone in the country without proper procedures and documents.


So you can't come up with a state of law protecting the peoples rights? Why don't you simply copycat the Kraut's again, just not the fascist parts this time?


The German Constitution provides that detention may only be ordered by a judge. The responsible authorities may only take a person into custody if there is reason to believe that this person is trying to abscond in order to avoid deportation and if a judge cannot be requested to issue a detention order beforehand. In such cases, the detention order has to be subsequently obtained from a court as soon as possible.

www.asylumineurope.org...

What the fck happened to your constitution?




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