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EU gives in to Trump to avoid trade war...more winning!!!

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posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 07:59 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: DJMSN

They are talking now because someone stood up and said no, something other EU members have not done.
What did Trump say "no" to, in regard to buying gas from Russia?

The EU has been buying gas from Russia for years, btw. It's a cheap and reliable source. They also by a lot of oil from Russia, a lot more oil than gas. I wonder if the "talks" will involve demands that the EU stop buying Russian. Just say "no?"


You didn't watch Trump call out Germany in the NATO summit for attempting to agree to a much larger deal with Russia, their supposed enemy? Makes one wonder if they are really enemies or if it is all for show?

It would seem to be damm near impossible to win a war against a nation that can cut off your energy supply.


edit on 25-7-2018 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 08:01 PM
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Trump beat again


Trump backs off new tariffs on EU in retreat from trade war

www.politico.com...



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 08:05 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell
Trump beat again


Trump backs off new tariffs on EU in retreat from trade war

www.politico.com...





Did you read the article? It suggests Trump is getting what be wanted from his threats to start a trade war. No need to go to war when you've already won.



In a joint statement in the Rose Garden, Trump and Juncker also announced that the two trading partners will work to eliminate tariffs on all non-auto industrial goods, increase cooperation on energy purchases and work together to reform the World Trade Organization.

"This will open markets for farmers and workers, increase investment, and lead to greater prosperity in both the United States and the European Union," Trump said as Juncker stood beside him. “If we team up, we can make our planet a better, more secure and more prosperous place."


This is Trump getting what he wanted just by threatening the EU. He didn't actually have to do anything but talk. That is a fine bit of negotiating.

Trump Wins Again


edit on 25-7-2018 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 08:12 PM
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a reply to: Isurrender73

Calling out Germany? I thought we were talking about the EU.

The whole EU is not in favor of the pipeline, but it probably will be built. BTW, Obama was opposed to Nord Stream 2 as well.
Bush was opposed to the first one. All Trump did was cause a public ruckus with his "Germany is totally controlled by Russia." Or do you think that part of the "talks" will be about shutting the project down?



He didn't actually have to do anything but talk.
He imposed tariffs.


edit on 7/25/2018 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 08:13 PM
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a reply to: Isurrender73

That's all propaganda. Trump told them he will back down but they have to make like he got something.
He got nothing. Empty promises just like the Nkorean fiasco

Just like when he tried to get the Mexican president to lie for him so he could get brownie points.



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 08:16 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Isurrender73

Calling out Germany? I thought we were talking about the EU.

The whole EU is not in favor of the pipeline, but it probably will be built. BTW, Obama was opposed to Nord Stream 2 as well. All Trump did was cause a public ruckus with his "Germany is totally controlled by Russia." Or do you think that part of the "talks" will be about shutting the project down?





I don't know what to think. But I think making a public statement at least throws Germany under the bus. How can NATO cry about Russia when one of their members are supporting them?

Our sanctions against Russia are pointless if they build the pipeline. Everyone said Trump is Putin's puppet, when the only puppets looks to be in Germany.

It's never a good idea to become dependant on your enemy. Bush, Obama and Trump are all correct to oppose pipelines from Russia. If they are indeed an enemy to NATO.

You are correct. I misspoke. He did indeed impose an initial round of tarrifs. The threat was more tarrifs which he didn't have to implement.

edit on 25-7-2018 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 08:22 PM
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a reply to: Phage

Trump was widely criticized at the recent NATO meeting for stating opposition to the new NORDSTREAM 2 pipeline. Many EU countries oppose it as well considering it a national security risk.

www.google.com...

Both Obama and Bush opposed the pipeline and informed EU leaders of that opposition. NATO exist largely due to concerns of Russian aggression. Why should European countries pay for a majority of a pipeline, which is not exactly environmentally friendly, so gas giant Gazprom can make a fortune.

It would also forego another pipeline already active that transits gas thru Ukraine and on into Europe. Thus enabling Russia the ability to cut off gas to those regions which we have already seen. That could help with any other military actions they might have in mind.

Why not say no to Russia. As part of the sanctions so many wish to impose, as long as they can exempt themselves, those cheap purchases would be banned.

We see the same from France in regard to Iran, they don't want sanctions to affect their opportunities there but insist the UN should impose sanctions so no one else can compete.

I am sure that both oil and gas will continue to flow into the EU from Russia, but if we can arrange a deal that the US sells our LPG in the EU and do so such is advantageous to both, is that so bad ?

It would limit Europe's dependence on Russia, stem the flow of currency into Russian coffers which can support military aggression not only in the Eastern Bloc but maybe into the Middle East.

According to many Trump did say NO ! They don't like how he said it and he can use some more diplomacy at times instead of full throttle publicly but if it works and results are good for all, who cares if there Is some butt hurt.




In May, U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Energy Diplomacy Sandra Oudkirk told reporters the United States could sanction Nord Stream 2, using a law passed in 2017 that targets Russian energy projects around the world.


Proposing sanctions is a pretty strong NO in today's terms so I think it safe to say the last 2 Presidents strong oppisition to NORDSTREAM2 and Trumps williness to apply sanctions may work. We shall see


edit on 7/25/2018 by DJMSN because: Correction



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 08:25 PM
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a reply to: Isurrender73


How can NATO cry about Russia when one of their members are supporting them?
The US buys stuff from Russia. How can we cry about supporting them?


Our sanctions against Russia are pointless if they build the pipeline
Why? There are no sanctions against imports of Russian gas, or oil. The US imports quite a lot of oil from Russia.
www.eia.gov...


edit on 7/25/2018 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 08:26 PM
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a reply to: Phage

if he's trying to increase the movement of LNG into the EU then he may keep the pressure on.

Or maybe he is going to bargain with them on the matter. he came on strong enough on the topic that he could continue to pressure Germany and create some political trouble for them within the union.



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 08:30 PM
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a reply to: Phage

I agree with you.

The only point I was making about sanctions was if sanctions take a billion out an econmy and new pipelines put a billion back in what was the point of the sanctions. Must be all for show?

I think Russia the bad guy is all for show. If anyone was really worried I imagine much more would be done to cripple their economy.


edit on 25-7-2018 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 08:31 PM
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a reply to: DJMSN




I am sure that both oil and gas will continue to flow into the EU from Russia, but if we can arrange a deal that the US sells our LPG in the EU and do so such is advantageous to both, is that so bad ?
It's hard to understand how LPG from the US can be competitive with LPG from Russia. Shipping costs significantly more than piping. It's hard to understand how higher energy costs would be advantageous to the EU. It would seem that the low price of Russian gas may be more of a concern to the US than any notion of influence. The US is not capable of supplying the gas needs of the EU.



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 08:31 PM
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a reply to: Phage

they only buy uranium.....lol....



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 08:36 PM
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a reply to: Isurrender73

The sanctions are mostly aimed at Russian oligarchs and specific companies. They don't really seem to have had much of an economic impact. Not nearly what the collapse of oil prices did.



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 08:38 PM
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a reply to: matafuchs



they only buy uranium

Not really. But they sell us quite a lot.

About 11% of the uranium delivered to U.S. reactors in 2016 was produced in the United States and 89% came from other countries.

Sources and shares of purchases of uranium produced in foreign countries in 2016:

Canada–25%
Kazakhstan–24%
Australia–20%
Russia–14%
Uzbekistan–4%
Malawi, Namibia, Niger, and South Africa–10%
Brazil, Bulgaria, China, Czech Republic, Germany, and Ukraine–2%

www.eia.gov...

So, out of the 11% produced in the US, how much do you suppose comes from Uranium One, if that's what you're trying to say?

edit on 7/25/2018 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 09:03 PM
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a reply to: Phage

It's pretty cheap to get it out of the ground right now and we have an enormous supply. The United States is the number one exporter worldwide currently of LPG.

I would think that it would be expensive to ship as well but apparently the producers do rather well at keeping cost down. The US Shale discoveries have resulted in enormous supplies thus curtailing prices.

Apparently it is a big enough offset to make it very profitable and the demand in Europe is strong enough to support both producers in the US and Russian suppliers.

Another possibility is for the US to help provide Mexico access to the market in the EU as both the US and Mexico combined would be a formidable powerhouse in that export market.

Mexico could use a helping hand and there are concessions we would like from Mexico's new President so I would not surprised to see a deal to renegotiate NAFTA and a renegotiated deal with Canada as well. We shall see
edit on 7/25/2018 by DJMSN because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 09:39 PM
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a reply to: Phage

Sarcasm...I can afford that because Trump is kicking ass like an America President should. Long time coming. Would have to say this has not occurred since the 80's.

I mean, Trump is using simply business practice.

Look, if you are constantly putting out for others and getting nothing in return please explain where that is a good thing for us. Would NATO or the UN show up if we were suddenly nuked? Nope. Because WE provide the protection so once in awhile it is good to let those who are protected know where it comes from.

America makes the world work. Take us away and no matter the debt it all collapses. All of it. To think any different is asinine.



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 09:40 PM
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a reply to: matafuchs




Would NATO or the UN show up if we were suddenly nuked?

Show up for what?

But they did show up after 911.



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 09:42 PM
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Shipping costs aren't that great when you look at the numbers, but what you are missing is the cost for LNG in the US compared to the world market is very low-- the price in Belgium (a net exporter) is nearly three times the price in the US. It offsets nicely which is why the US has overtaken Qatar as the biggest exporter. Also, you're competing against a different fuel (LPG) from Russia, so it needs different infrastructure development, so it is a long-term investment for Germany. LNG costs should be lower, despite shipping. At the very least, adding terminals for LNG gives them leverage when negotiating price with Gazprom. It's a win-win for everyone but Gazprom, and strategically, it makes little sense for Germany and others to hitch their wagon to Russia for energy dependence. The reluctance from Germany has been the investment costs to transform their energy market and expand LNG at the cost of LPG. They might have to convert power stations, incentivize auto conversion, etc. We're seeing similar things in the US as power stations increasingly convert to LNG from coal and other fuels when they need refitting due to thr overabundance of LNG in the US, but the auto/gasoline industry is still reluctant to convert and invest in brand new infrastructure.



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 10:42 PM
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a reply to: Phage


More so, now that the Chinese have imposed that tariff (after the above article). Not sure the increase in EU sales will make up the difference though.

I don't think it will completely make up the difference, but it will give us some of an edge to be used in negotiations. The tariffs were going to hurt China (as theirs were going to hurt us), but now their ability to hurt us is lessened.

TheRedneck



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 10:48 PM
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And if the world and Congress are serious about "punishment for Russian transgression then sactions on oil and gas would be imposed. The facts that it would harm the EU as much as Russia keeps them from really bringing them to their knees.

It's a game that one side can use against the other. Democrats and Republicans don't want to deal with the riots and chaos it would create in the EU as a result of gas and oil going even higher than it already is.

But they want to be able to scream and cry that Trump doesn't do enough, it's Congresss that needs to get up and do something other than these stupid televised hearings that don't do nothing but give them something to cry about on the Sunday game show circuit. That's because both sides are nothing but showboats



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