It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

China is developing large Unmanned Underwater Vehicles (aka Robo subs)

page: 1
4
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 24 2018 @ 10:29 PM
link   
The South China Morning Post came out with an interesting article. It seems China is developing large Unmanned Underwater Vehicles. These are in effect robot submarines. They are intended to be cheaper than normal subs, but they will be quite large, large enough they will dock like a normal sub pierside. Initially, the subs are intended to do recon, but this will be upgraded to mine laying in the near term. Eventually, though not as far in the future as some will think, the article states the UUVs will act like loitering munitions and do suicide runs at large vessels. Some time later the UUVs will carry torpedoes and missiles, but not in the immediate future.

The article states the whole purpose of this is to change how undersea warfare is conducted since as is it plays to American strengths. The intent is actually, as the outright stated, to target the US specifically. Imagine the effect of a dozen moderate sized robo subs just mining the San Diego harbor, for example.

The Chinese military has come out condemning the article. They have stated they are not targeting the US and the project is R&D. The whole original article, the Chinese government says, was very overblown.

However, Jane's has since published state something rather similar to the original article. And Jane's doesn't normally do this except when they have other sources.

It should be noted, as was in the original article, the Chinese developments are not happening in a vacuum. The US has been working on the tech for some time. The US Navy awarded contracts to Lockheed and Boeing for their XLUUV designs last year. DARPA is getting the payload bay designed and the Navy is seeking funds for FY19 to design a lot of the com systems and sensors.

The US Navy has been planning this sort of thing for a long time. The problem is, like so many things in the Pentagon these days, they are seriously dragging their rump. They are probably about a decade behind where they really ought to be and almost all of this is due to the slow rate of development.

Even the not so cuddly DOD Undersecretary for Research and Development Griffin stated:


“The Chinese love our acquisition system…because we are taking…16 and a half years from stating a need to IOC,” or initial operational capability, he said. “They’re doing it in two or three. We used to do it in two or three.”


We don't need Manhattan Project style budgets. We do need to stop screwing around and stop wasting a lot of money on projects we start and stop and cancel and bring back. And we also need to knockoff the whole idea of adding lots of capabilities in after the contract has been awarded. Define what you need and give the contract. Get the A model or Flight I or A1 model done. Then start working on the B model, Flight II or A2. Don't throw it all in immediately.

Because, as Spock, erm, Griffin said, the Chinese have been developing much, much faster and they are catching up fast.




posted on Jul, 24 2018 @ 10:36 PM
link   
Socialism seems to work for the Chinese, knowledge sharing as opposed to pure money grubbing capitalism
Not saying socialism is better, just seems to have a few benefits

Why shouldn't China have a good military system, the US have had theirs for nearly a century, why deny China theirs



posted on Jul, 24 2018 @ 11:06 PM
link   
a reply to: anzha

Cold war 2.0.?

Or is this not quite to the a "cold war" code red yet? Maybe a chili war or luke-warm war? Either way, lots of hugely expensive weapons need to be built, on both sides.

Right?
edit on 24-7-2018 by atsgrounded because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 24 2018 @ 11:11 PM
link   
a reply to: atsgrounded

China is waging a 'quiet kind of cold war' against the US, a top CIA expert says:

www.businessinsider.com...

enjoy.



posted on Jul, 24 2018 @ 11:14 PM
link   
Oh Nais, more targets.



posted on Jul, 24 2018 @ 11:28 PM
link   
a reply to: anzha

The Cia huh, pretty impartial. I kid.

The US has around 800 foreign bases around the globe.


While there are no freestanding foreign bases permanently located in the United States, there are now around 800 US bases in foreign countries. Seventy years after World War II and 62 years after the Korean War, there are still 174 US “base sites” in Germany, 113 in Japan, and 83 in South Korea, according to the Pentagon. Hundreds more dot the planet in around 80 countries, including Aruba and Australia, Bahrain and Bulgaria, Colombia, Kenya, and Qatar, among many other places. Although few Americans realize it, the United States likely has more bases in foreign lands than any other people, nation, or empire in history.

www.thenation.com...

(devils advocate) Lots of bases, wonder what the purpose of the global map being speckled with US bases is for?



posted on Jul, 24 2018 @ 11:32 PM
link   

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Socialism seems to work for the Chinese

Exceptionally well, well except for the fact that China isn't a socialist country.



posted on Jul, 24 2018 @ 11:52 PM
link   

originally posted by: Vector99
Exceptionally well, well except for the fact that China isn't a socialist country.


China's just a pernicious dictatorship.

To the OP. Most navies have some sort of unmanned underwater vehicles in use and/or in developmnet, so no surprises there. Plans and concepts for the The Royal Navy have been known about for a couple of years, for example. The only question is whether China have started from scratch, or just like everything else, have started with stolen blueprints.



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 02:25 AM
link   
a reply to: anzha

I would think Control of them would be pretty hard as we were using ELF signals to communicate with some of our boomers.

They'd have to be pretty close to the surface to be controlled and that means easier to detect.

Good concept bit I doubt they have the tech to make it operational.

Maybe an autonomous sub, but that's aways off as well.



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 03:05 AM
link   
a reply to: anzha

Great write-up.


These sound like the submarine drones America's been building for the past few years. No doubt Russia will have its own equivalent too to go alongside the phantoms that appear in Swedish lakes. I've been reading about UK sub drones for years now. A lot of the benefits of aerial drone warfare will crossover to submarine spying and warfare.



The Chinese military has come out condemning the article. They have stated they are not targeting the US and the project is R&D. The whole original article, the Chinese government says, was very overblown.


This is the reality of global power and Realpolitik. Big players will necessarily have aggressive and defensive capabilities. Don't take this as anti-American, but it's inevitable that big players need to compete with America's dominance and having military bases on every nation's doorsteps. It creates a variable speed arms race with no signs of stopping.

Unsurprisingly, China has its hawks like any other nation. I read a CIA 'estimate' a few years ago that quoted hawkish Chinese generals/admirals and their own dreams of 'full spectrum dominance' a la Rumsfeld in his day. They were looking at air-based laser platforms and stealth subs. Part of it discussed Chinese military thought experiments on how to cripple the US with pre-emptive strikes. Just like America, we should all hope the hawks never seize ascendancy as it'll potentially be the end for many of us.

Incidentally, I wrote a thread a few years ago that included maritime nuclear warfare options. US, allies and Russia have subs with nuclear warheads. That's not news to anyone with a pulse, but they also operate sketchy, grey-area subs with unaccounted warheads in a mutually fudged evasion of the non-proliferation treaties. It's like 'don't ask, don't tell' for Armageddon. It's little wonder the Chinese want ownership of their own waters and patrols of drones to prevent nuclear 'squatters' off their ports and shorelines.



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 04:20 AM
link   

originally posted by: anzha
The South China Morning Post came out with an interesting article. It seems China is developing large Unmanned Underwater Vehicles. These are in effect robot submarines. They are intended to be cheaper than normal subs, but they will be quite large, large enough they will dock like a normal sub pierside. Initially, the subs are intended to do recon, but this will be upgraded to mine laying in the near term. Eventually, though not as far in the future as some will think, the article states the UUVs will act like loitering munitions and do suicide runs at large vessels. Some time later the UUVs will carry torpedoes and missiles, but not in the immediate future.

The article states the whole purpose of this is to change how undersea warfare is conducted since as is it plays to American strengths. The intent is actually, as the outright stated, to target the US specifically. Imagine the effect of a dozen moderate sized robo subs just mining the San Diego harbor, for example.

The Chinese military has come out condemning the article. They have stated they are not targeting the US and the project is R&D. The whole original article, the Chinese government says, was very overblown.

However, Jane's has since published state something rather similar to the original article. And Jane's doesn't normally do this except when they have other sources.

It should be noted, as was in the original article, the Chinese developments are not happening in a vacuum. The US has been working on the tech for some time. The US Navy awarded contracts to Lockheed and Boeing for their XLUUV designs last year. DARPA is getting the payload bay designed and the Navy is seeking funds for FY19 to design a lot of the com systems and sensors.

The US Navy has been planning this sort of thing for a long time. The problem is, like so many things in the Pentagon these days, they are seriously dragging their rump. They are probably about a decade behind where they really ought to be and almost all of this is due to the slow rate of development.

Even the not so cuddly DOD Undersecretary for Research and Development Griffin stated:


“The Chinese love our acquisition system…because we are taking…16 and a half years from stating a need to IOC,” or initial operational capability, he said. “They’re doing it in two or three. We used to do it in two or three.”


We don't need Manhattan Project style budgets. We do need to stop screwing around and stop wasting a lot of money on projects we start and stop and cancel and bring back. And we also need to knockoff the whole idea of adding lots of capabilities in after the contract has been awarded. Define what you need and give the contract. Get the A model or Flight I or A1 model done. Then start working on the B model, Flight II or A2. Don't throw it all in immediately.

Because, as Spock, erm, Griffin said, the Chinese have been developing much, much faster and they are catching up fast.



That is why the Kraken exists...those sneaky Canadians again first the Avro Arrow now the Kraken......hunter-killer autonomous robo-mines that travel the oceans 24/7/365 waiting to be activated....once the Oceans are denied to everyone the entire gameboard changes...all Navies are neutralised concurrently...so unless you plan on rowing across the ocean on a competely wooden boat with NO METAL on it at all...lol...the game has changed.

Time for Global Treaties that agree to no drone controlled Nukes...for fear of being hacked....only human hands on the wheel at all times.

edit on 25-7-2018 by one4all because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 04:47 AM
link   
a reply to: Vector99

Touché
So communism seems to help with China and her March to global dominance
I am not a fan of communism, just see it seems to be a bit better for a military complex than greed



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 05:25 AM
link   
a reply to: anzha

Not a new idea, the concept of robotic soldiers is old and indeed the west has already heavily invested in these technology's but mainly in aerial drone technology's, difference is they are easier to keep secret, unmanned sea drone's for example don't have the complication of a human crew to leak there presence, they can be maintained and serviced in underwater facility's and can operate without the need for pressurized internal gas so can dive far deeper and for far longer than even the best manned sub.
Danger
They don't have the human element's so if and when a mistake occur's there is no human fail safe such as the Russian submarine officer who refused to fire his missiles at the US and disobeyed and incorrect order to stop it.



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 11:21 AM
link   

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Vector99

Touché
So communism seems to help with China and her March to global dominance
I am not a fan of communism, just see it seems to be a bit better for a military complex than greed


You have the weirdest ideas. Do you think the US doesn’t have unmanned subs? Unmanned boats and satelite superiority? Do you think China has a stronger military with better research and production than the US?

Or do you think this news gets us closer to the Christian apocalypse that you so adamantly long for?



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 01:10 PM
link   
a reply to: Woodcarver

No

What I think is that China has advanced quickly because they share their ideas not copyright them to make money

What ever else is in your head is your problem woodie, not mine



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 01:51 PM
link   

originally posted by: Raggedyman
What I think is that China has advanced quickly because they share their ideas not copyright them to make money


It's a well known fact that China has advanced quickly because they have spent the last two decades in copyright theft and (more worryingly) state supported commercial spying, plundering intellectual property, commercial secrets and innovation.

There's a reason why much of their military kit looks similar to Western kit.



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 02:16 PM
link   
a reply to: anzha

Yeah, big deal. I'm shaking in my boots. The Soviets tried that as well.
Now if the Chinese could just build a simple LED flashlight (never mind a submarine) that works for longer than 30 minutes, I wouldn't be out the money I just wasted due to a lack of any other choice....



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 06:33 PM
link   

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Vector99

Touché
So communism seems to help with China and her March to global dominance
I am not a fan of communism, just see it seems to be a bit better for a military complex than greed


The Chinese Empire has existed for thousands of years. How often have they waged war for world domination.



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 07:21 PM
link   
a reply to: Raggedyman

Socialism works for the Chinese because they're sharing OUR KNOWLEDGE!

When you pay pennies on the hundred dollar bill for technical data and r&d it 100% makes sense to propagate it across your entire domestic business sector!

It's not socialism it's F***ing piracy.

Why do people have such a hard time getting this?

It's right out in all of your faces nonstop and half of you couldn't catch it if it were herpes at a gang bang



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 07:25 PM
link   
a reply to: Raggedyman

They share other people's hard work... They can't "copyright" it!

Btw... Maybe you should learn something about the subject before pontificating about it since you PATENT ideas and technology and copyright works of art books and etc...

So basically, you're pulling your speculation out of the south end of a northward traveling bull and then acting like you've made some sort of profound discovery!



new topics

top topics



 
4
<<   2 >>

log in

join