WSLOCAL NEWS Marcel family shares never-before-seen artifacts;

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WSLOCAL NEWS
Marcel family shares never-before-seen artifacts; Treasure trove for UFO researchers, historians will shine light on Roswell Incident

First this for advance notice that nothing has been disclosed yet.

Asked when the documents will be made available to the public, Landsman said, “We haven’t been specific. It is a large cache of historical military documents, but it all goes back to that time period (mid-40s). What’s the most intriguing is what historians and cryptographers will decipher.”

I don't know about you but I don't expect the truth which is supported by facts that the debris that was found had no connection to a crashed UFO. It was simply a lost Mogul balloon train with equipment to spy on Russian nuclear detonations.

Here's a better, reliable source:

www.csicop.org...
The Roswell Incident and Project Mogul
Special Report
Dave Thomas
Skeptical Inquirer Volume 19.4, July / August 1995

As reported in the January-February 1995 Skeptical Inquirer, a September 1994 Air Force report strongly supported the theory that the “UFO” debris found by rancher Mac Brazel in 1947 northwest of Roswell, New Mexico, was in fact a remnant of a balloon flight launched as part of a top-secret program called Project Mogul. The possible connection between the Roswell Incident and Mogul was first realized by researcher Robert G. Todd, and independently by Karl T. Pflock.

Recently, Charles B. Moore, one of three surviving Project Mogul scientists identified in and interviewed for the Air Force report, spoke to the New Mexicans for Science and Reason (NMSR) in Albuquerque. He discussed the background of the project, the New York University (NYU) balloon flights, and the Roswell connection. He provided new details that would appear to virtually clinch the idea that the debris Brazel found was indeed from one of the Project Mogul flights that Moore helped launch.

It is a given that most, if not all, of the gullible members of this forum have convinced themselves that the above and what is in the article just couldn't possibly be true. Without one iota of evidence to the contrary they believe the romantic fantasy that has made a lot of questionable authors rich and the city of Roswell richer.

To dig up an old chestnut, what is your educated opinion? What do you think the Marcel family is up to and will they be honest and present the truth for Jesse Marcel in his old age did nothing but lie.

I support your viewpoint, Shrike.

As a note though, I have no connection to that area anymore.

I hope the same, for you.

PS, if you're a top Ekko player, stop smurfing.

I think Nick Redfern has the most plausible theory, which is that Roswell was an incident with high altitude tests the government/military was doing that involved using human subject with deformities. He lays out a good case. It sounds like something our authorities would do...and would explain at least one reason for our intelligence agencies' long-standing and significant interest and meddling into the UFO subject.

No clue why the Marcel family would be doing this now, unless there were a financial benefit.

originally posted by: KansasGirl
I think Nick Redfern has the most plausible theory, which is that Roswell was an incident with high altitude tests the government/military was doing that involved using human subject with deformities. He lays out a good case. It sounds like something our authorities would do...and would explain at least one reason for our intelligence agencies' long-standing and significant interest and meddling into the UFO subject.

No clue why the Marcel family would be doing this now, unless there were a financial benefit.

LOL, and I thought I heard it all.

originally posted by: KansasGirl
I think Nick Redfern has the most plausible theory, which is that Roswell was an incident with high altitude tests the government/military was doing that involved using human subject with deformities. He lays out a good case. It sounds like something our authorities would do...and would explain at least one reason for our intelligence agencies' long-standing and significant interest and meddling into the UFO subject.

No clue why the Marcel family would be doing this now, unless there were a financial benefit.

Sounds like a similar theory I heard, where Japanese radicals were looking to strike back at the US, were using some high attitude blimp, these were small, so required a small person, enter the Asian height. Apparently, whatever happened went terribly wron, resulting in the pilots being burned severly, resulting in a disfigured dark shape, small form.

Anyways, interesting stuff, wish I remembered where I heard it from.

originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: KansasGirl
I think Nick Redfern has the most plausible theory, which is that Roswell was an incident with high altitude tests the government/military was doing that involved using human subject with deformities. He lays out a good case. It sounds like something our authorities would do...and would explain at least one reason for our intelligence agencies' long-standing and significant interest and meddling into the UFO subject.

No clue why the Marcel family would be doing this now, unless there were a financial benefit.

Sounds like a similar theory I heard, where Japanese radicals were looking to strike back at the US, were using some high attitude blimp, these were small, so required a small person, enter the Asian height. Apparently, whatever happened went terribly wron, resulting in the pilots being burned severly, resulting in a disfigured dark shape, small form.

Anyways, interesting stuff, wish I remembered where I heard it from.

Yes, something like that. Except the people they were using in these experiments weren't "normal" people. They were people with deformities and other issues who were institutionalized...it was in conjunction with a secret Japanese military or government unit. I'll have to look in the book and get back to you- it's been a few years since I read it.

So, abnormal institutionalized people with deformities make ideal secret counterstrike commandos? Who knew.

originally posted by: Archivalist
I support your viewpoint, Shrike.

As a note though, I have no connection to that area anymore.

I hope the same, for you.

PS, if you're a top Ekko player, stop smurfing.

Thanks for dropping by and giving us your views. I am a top Ekko but the sunlight doesn't bother me. However, just to be on the safe side I'm wearing a beanie.

originally posted by: KansasGirl
I think Nick Redfern has the most plausible theory, which is that Roswell was an incident with high altitude tests the government/military was doing that involved using human subject with deformities. He lays out a good case. It sounds like something our authorities would do...and would explain at least one reason for our intelligence agencies' long-standing and significant interest and meddling into the UFO subject.

No clue why the Marcel family would be doing this now, unless there were a financial benefit.

I would never use Redfern as a reference and his opinion of Roswell, as stated by you, is a perfect reason. Funny, though, the mortician - Glenn Dennis - who claims he saw the bodies from the "crashed UFO" may have seen soldiers who were affected by something that enlarged their heads... I read that a l.o.o.n.g time ago and don't remember the details.

I agree with you that the Marcel family motive is financial, possibly prodded.

originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: KansasGirl
I think Nick Redfern has the most plausible theory, which is that Roswell was an incident with high altitude tests the government/military was doing that involved using human subject with deformities. He lays out a good case. It sounds like something our authorities would do...and would explain at least one reason for our intelligence agencies' long-standing and significant interest and meddling into the UFO subject.

No clue why the Marcel family would be doing this now, unless there were a financial benefit.

Sounds like a similar theory I heard, where Japanese radicals were looking to strike back at the US, were using some high attitude blimp, these were small, so required a small person, enter the Asian height. Apparently, whatever happened went terribly wron, resulting in the pilots being burned severly, resulting in a disfigured dark shape, small form.

Anyways, interesting stuff, wish I remembered where I heard it from.

What I've read connected with the Japanese are the incendiary bombs that were sent by balloons with one casualty on the West Coast.

I still like my crazy theory that Paperclip Nazis pushing forward under Von Braun's obsession with putting humans on the Moon had an off-the-books, modified V-2 launch with cadavers (maybe those of children) from White Sands go awry. The goal was to test acceleration effects on the human body, and the Nazis didn't have a problem with it.

I assume that's one of the reasons (and a pretty good one) the whole thing has been kept under wraps for so long. Even to this day, people don't want to hear that their glorious space program is built on a foundation of Nazi dreams and dead bodies.

originally posted by: Blue Shift
I still like my crazy theory that Paperclip Nazis pushing forward under Von Braun's obsession with putting humans on the Moon had an off-the-books, modified V-2 launch with cadavers (maybe those of children) from White Sands go awry. The goal was to test acceleration effects on the human body, and the Nazis didn't have a problem with it.

I assume that's one of the reasons (and a pretty good one) the whole thing has been kept under wraps for so long. Even to this day, people don't want to hear that their glorious space program is built on a foundation of Nazi dreams and dead bodies.

Well, I for one, am glad that you shared this view of unknown(?) history.

originally posted by: The Shrike

originally posted by: KansasGirl
I think Nick Redfern has the most plausible theory, which is that Roswell was an incident with high altitude tests the government/military was doing that involved using human subject with deformities. He lays out a good case. It sounds like something our authorities would do...and would explain at least one reason for our intelligence agencies' long-standing and significant interest and meddling into the UFO subject.

No clue why the Marcel family would be doing this now, unless there were a financial benefit.

I would never use Redfern as a reference and his opinion of Roswell, as stated by you, is a perfect reason. Funny, though, the mortician - Glenn Dennis - who claims he saw the bodies from the "crashed UFO" may have seen soldiers who were affected by something that enlarged their heads... I read that a l.o.o.n.g time ago and don't remember the details.

I agree with you that the Marcel family motive is financial, possibly prodded.

Who would you use as a source? Bless us with your superior discernment.

originally posted by: underpass61
So, abnormal institutionalized people with deformities make ideal secret counterstrike commandos? Who knew.

Not counter strike commandos. They make an ideal pool of humans to draw from for use in experiments by horrible people with power and resources they can wield in secret.

originally posted by: KansasGirl

originally posted by: The Shrike

originally posted by: KansasGirl
I think Nick Redfern has the most plausible theory, which is that Roswell was an incident with high altitude tests the government/military was doing that involved using human subject with deformities. He lays out a good case. It sounds like something our authorities would do...and would explain at least one reason for our intelligence agencies' long-standing and significant interest and meddling into the UFO subject.

No clue why the Marcel family would be doing this now, unless there were a financial benefit.

I would never use Redfern as a reference and his opinion of Roswell, as stated by you, is a perfect reason. Funny, though, the mortician - Glenn Dennis - who claims he saw the bodies from the "crashed UFO" may have seen soldiers who were affected by something that enlarged their heads... I read that a l.o.o.n.g time ago and don't remember the details.

I agree with you that the Marcel family motive is financial, possibly prodded.

Who would you use as a source? Bless us with your superior discernment.

I am hard pressed to name anyone, presently, as a reliable source, for just about everyone in UFOlogy is a believer and cannot be trusted to present the truth. I am a natural, open-minded skeptic and it's natural for me to question everyone and everything. I listen open-minded to investigative skeptics or believers that can present decent dialogue with a partially open mind. In the matter of the Roswell event I trust only one author who is dead. He was Karl T. Pflock, author of "Roswell: Inconvenient Facts and the Will to Believe". The only source of Roswell truth I respect. I'm always open to new info that can change my mind.

There will always be one question for me when it comes to Roswell. Let's just say that it was in fact Project Mogul. Mac Brazel called the Air Force and told them to come and clean up their crap from his ranch. All the Air Force had to do was say "Thanks!" and go clean it up. End of story.

Why, then, would Maj. Marcel go on to do a press release saying they had recovered a crashed flying saucer? It doesn't make any sense. Without that press release there would be no Roswell Incident.

Add to that all the stories about bodies and the increasingly wild theories to cover for that then it's no surprise that it still makes you go hmm.

originally posted by: TheAiIsLying
There will always be one question for me when it comes to Roswell. Let's just say that it was in fact Project Mogul. Mac Brazel called the Air Force and told them to come and clean up their crap from his ranch. All the Air Force had to do was say "Thanks!" and go clean it up. End of story.

Why, then, would Maj. Marcel go on to do a press release saying they had recovered a crashed flying saucer? It doesn't make any sense. Without that press release there would be no Roswell Incident.

Add to that all the stories about bodies and the increasingly wild theories to cover for that then it's no surprise that it still makes you go hmm.

Make the effort to read proper sources that are not connected to the Roswell cash cow. Use Google to find sources and stay away from believers' sources. Stay sane inside of insanity. Stay away also from pro-UFO authors.

Here's a link to start you off and remember always question everything.
www.csicop.org...

a reply to: The Shrike

Make the effort to read proper sources that are not connected to the Roswell cash cow. Use Google to find sources and stay away from believers' sources. Stay sane inside of insanity. Stay away also from pro-UFO authors.

Quite sane thanks . I first read about the Roswell incident back in the 80's. Didn't have Google back then. I read your link all I saw was yet another guy pushing his own version of what happened. Let's face facts, this happened a long time ago and we'll never know what really happened one way or another.

Still doesn't answer why the press release. If they put Marcel in charge of a nuclear bomber wing I'm sure he knew what a terrestrial balloon looked like. In that era if it was top secret all they had to do was collect the wreckage, tell Brazel it was a weather balloon and that would be that. No Roswell Incident still being discussed in 2018.

If anyone would take the time to read The Roswell Report for themselves, there would be no need to rely on "expert" opinions from either side. The answer is supported by documents, photographs, technical drawings, and so forth. What crashed was a balloon train from the MOGUL program but not a fully equipped and numbered MOGUL array.

What many people fail to understand is that MOGUL arrived in Alamogordo NM not as a developed project but as an experimental one. In fact MOGUL was dissolved in late 1948/early 1949 and "not put into full operational use because of cost, security, and practicability". There were several types of balloon trains being launched during this experimental period:
- Research flights
- Service flights (simple)
- Service flights (complete)
- Experimental (regular) flights
- Full MOGUL arrays

A "regular" balloon train was launched on June 4th as recorded in MOGULs Field Operations Director Albert Crarys journal. This flight would have been prepared and launched by Charles Moore and used as part of his experimental process and contained balloons, radar targets, and a sonobouy. THIS is what likely crashed on the Foster ranch. It was not a 500+ foot fully equipped MOGUL array, it was not an experimental program using test dummies, it was not a Japanese balloon carrying a small person, it was not an experimental Nazi test, and it was definitely not a crashed alien spacecraft.

This is a very brief summary of a blog I'm putting together and THIS thread I wrote explaining what I believed crashed on the Foster ranch. It matches the description of a simple balloon train launched by Charles Moore and nothing else.

As far as any evidence brought out by the Marcel family, it doesn't sound like pieces of this "incredible" foil-like material that was supposedly swept out the back door when Jesse Marcel left. It sounds like more nonsense to keep this fabled alien story alive.

Without one iota of evidence to the contrary they believe the romantic fantasy that has made a lot of questionable authors rich and the city of Roswell richer.

I consider the Rhodes photo as pertinent, albeit not evidence - any credence / influence one way or the other in your view ?