Democratic socialism surging in the age of Trump- Associated Press -Really? Propaganda Much?

a reply to: TheJesuit

When people talk about Democratic Socialism they're talking about the Nordic countries. None of them want Venuzuala. or a Communist country. Use your heads.

What's to like...Healthcare, Child Care, Maternity/Paternity leave, College Education.

It's sort of like the US, but instead of all of your tax dollars going to large corparations/congressional salaries and a bloated Military budget they spend your tax money on Healthcae, Childcare, Senior living, college education etc.

Doesn't sound too bad when you put it like that?

a reply to: amazing

When people talk about Democratic Socialism they're talking about the Nordic countries. None of them want Venuzuala. or a Communist country. Use your heads.

What's to like...Healthcare, Child Care, Maternity/Paternity leave, College Education.

It's sort of like the US, but instead of all of your tax dollars going to large corparations/congressional salaries and a bloated Military budget they spend your tax money on Healthcae, Childcare, Senior living, college education etc.

Doesn't sound too bad when you put it like that?

That's not entirely true. Democratic Socialism is a real socialist ideology, except it rejects the Stalinist, authoritarian approach, instead promising a democratic form of socialism.

originally posted by: Words
a reply to: amazing

When people talk about Democratic Socialism they're talking about the Nordic countries. None of them want Venuzuala. or a Communist country. Use your heads.

What's to like...Healthcare, Child Care, Maternity/Paternity leave, College Education.

It's sort of like the US, but instead of all of your tax dollars going to large corparations/congressional salaries and a bloated Military budget they spend your tax money on Healthcae, Childcare, Senior living, college education etc.

Doesn't sound too bad when you put it like that?

That's not entirely true. Democratic Socialism is a real socialist ideology, except it rejects the Stalinist, authoritarian approach, instead promising a democratic form of socialism.

I know we're a republic, but Isn't the USA kind of democratic socialism already? We already have welfare programs, healthcare for those without money, social security, unemployment insurance, free public education etc etc. It's just that the Nordic countries focus more on programs that work than we do...we get mired up in more bearocracy and red tape and corporate handouts.

I could be wrong, it just seems that way to me.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Words
a reply to: amazing

When people talk about Democratic Socialism they're talking about the Nordic countries. None of them want Venuzuala. or a Communist country. Use your heads.

What's to like...Healthcare, Child Care, Maternity/Paternity leave, College Education.

It's sort of like the US, but instead of all of your tax dollars going to large corparations/congressional salaries and a bloated Military budget they spend your tax money on Healthcae, Childcare, Senior living, college education etc.

Doesn't sound too bad when you put it like that?

That's not entirely true. Democratic Socialism is a real socialist ideology, except it rejects the Stalinist, authoritarian approach, instead promising a democratic form of socialism.

I know we're a republic, but Isn't the USA kind of democratic socialism already? We already have welfare programs, healthcare for those without money, social security, unemployment insurance, free public education etc etc. It's just that the Nordic countries focus more on programs that work than we do...we get mired up in more bearocracy and red tape and corporate handouts.

I could be wrong, it just seems that way to me.

Democratic socialism still hinges on the notion of social ownership of the means of production, which is good ol' socialism proper. The difference between Democratic socialism and other socialism is the promise of democracy. There are no historical examples of democratic socialism, though there have been parties and movements.

originally posted by: Gumerk
“The next time you hear me attacked as a socialist — like tomorrow — remember this: I don’t believe government should take over the grocery store down the street, or own the means of production,” he said. “But I do believe that the middle class and the working families of this country who produce the wealth of this county deserve a decent standard of living, and that their incomes should go up, not down.”~Bernie Sanders
a reply to: TheJesuit

The key difference between socialism and democratic socialism is that democratic socialists don't want the government to own the means of production and socialists do. They believe that certain general social goods like health care should be run by the government, but otherwise support capitalism. Denmark, Finland, Netherlands, Canada, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, and others have been characterized as social democracies.

The key difference between someone walking past your house and someone breaking into your house and stealing all your stuff is whether or not they WANT your stuff. A million people could walk past your house and not steal your stuff. But it only takes one. If you ask every one of them, they will ALL tell you they're not going to steal your stuff. Wouldn't be a very good thief if they couldn't lie.


What!?!? Politicians don't lie! And especially socialists! They don't lie! That's never happened! Ever!

Democratic socialism is really just a clever way of introducing a technocracy, which we have been transitioning to for a while. Basically a society micromanaged by social engineers, while everything from energy consumption and purchases is tracked. Energy consumption will also be managed(ie, your carbon footprint).

There's a reason capitalism is being demonized: because a capitol based economy will be replaced by a technocratic one. The smart grid is being built all over the planet to implement it. Once AI and quantum computing reach a point to be able to make sense of the data that has been stored on everyone, look out

Russia used to be a united socialist republic.

The US is supposed to be united under one flag for the republic that it stands for...

With states so far apart in views some making so much money off of unconstitutional laws and milking federal funds dry and not using the monies where they say they are putting it? Some of those states have the nerve to da they want to leave the US altogether.

Well how does 50 plus countries all with different laws etc sound to you? Travel nightmare especially for small states... that already exists in some with rolling road blocks etc.

Of course states getting free access to old military vehicles gear etc. all we would be doing is turning into a sort of europe; however land locked states would be hating it. Commercial trade state to state? Good thing drone delivery is poised huh?

Hey Florida and California how much for those oranges for us? Free for you... Um gee Alaska try a greenhouse until that um effect allows you to grow some...

Well, what a mess we have made huh? Europe united under the euro, now America North, South and Middle kinda wants to do the same to get trade etc sorted under the Amero... reign those states in purify the union get the laws straight etc.

So hey there are pros and cons of it... and some politicians have been pros at conning without having the opportunity to see what being convicted feels like.

So hey since we never really left martial law of the civil war? Isn't about time to cut those fringes loose? When someone calls you "fringe" it means living under one of those flag states still under martial law.

Do you want to be married to it? Myself... oh hell no; having lived in a few states visited quite a few as well as another country? Not interested in being stuck in one state nor dictated too by a bunch of capitalist cronies only trying to squeeze every last dime out of citizens as if were a turnip field.

When freedom comes at that sort of price? Only classism and caste begin to rule; all we have to fo then is look to Britain and India and how it operates... but then looking more to Canada as it is sort of America North with the British style government and territories.

Quebec of course would rather succeed to France last I heard... where union and succession goes.

Korea is also a Republic... China is a bunch of families all producing the same thing and competing among each other; while the government supplies the resources for them to do so; then they compete against each other for the best prices on exporting of the same goods so cutting cost also has meant cutting quality. Where the competition goes...

The result has been for them? Environmental... producing so much for capitalist that do not really capitalize on their own resources? Has made them capitalist in trade.

Then the middle east that hangs out and says we used to have grass and trees and plants and animals and then bad economics turned it all into sand over time so where our water etc has dried up at least we have the blood of all of that to fuel the rest of the worlds demise.

Of course technology wise like natural gas lighting used to rule the home? It was phased out with the invention of electricity harnessing...

of course the electrical noise from all of that drive the natural world of course change the poles and weather patterns; so what can they do except say I told you so? Like it is a last laugh as the Tibetan Plateau is increasingly turning into desert as well?

So of course one must be up on all of this and know what idealism and policies of air sea and land have lead to by those saying they are leaders of it... how can one lead a land anywhere? They cannot without implements to do so.

Using people as those implements means slavery to those ideals or polices... so of course knowing whether they help or harm means not only individual liberties but mass liberties too. When some take indecent liberties means it or they are unfitting for today's society... or even societies of thousands of years ago; and that's what nobility was all about knowing suffering/ Having compassion and understanding by direct knowledge.

Not some rote grasp or idea about it...

dependent arising is individual and mass... create a problem and well the solution depends on you. Dont create a problem and it ceases to be. So consideration means taking the time necessary to understand instead of react.

Consider acid and water... do you know how to combine them? Two things shouldn't be an issue any way you do it right? Science will tell you WRONG and so will experience, so feeling bad for those that found out the hard way doesn't happen when one learns to listen and follows procedure. They just know it isn't a good thing to do... so respect has to go to those that found out the hard way and of course those that didn't listen continue to teach the tale.

But then again; that is just life among the elements... any which way the wind blows internal or external? Still moves.

originally posted by: CymaticA
Democratic socialism is really just a clever way of introducing a technocracy, which we have been transitioning to for a while. Basically a society micromanaged by social engineers, while everything from energy consumption and purchases is tracked. Energy consumption will also be managed(ie, your carbon footprint).

Good call.

There's a reason capitalism is being demonized: because a capitol based economy will be replaced by a technocratic one. The smart grid is being built all over the planet to implement it. Once AI and quantum computing reach a point to be able to make sense of the data that has been stored on everyone, look out

Well, I don't think the average socialist peasant has any idea what the official plans may be. But the average person has plenty of valid complaints against capitalism. The only problem is there is really no solution to let them have their cake and eat it too. The only thing the average person can do to sabotage TPTB is stop reproducing. And even that won't work unless the vast majority of everyone else stops doing it too.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

Life still goes on human/animal nature is human/animal nature...

We took shelter from the elements some so powerful against us we called them gods... the Egyptians had it right, that big fire ball called sun that was deemed the main god up there without it nothing but cold hell floating out in space waiting to nest and warm up when one of those pulls things together for a warm embrace.

Not to mention hey thanks churn of aeon's for life to life out of all of that to get to a point to where we think... we are that big fire ball or that water supply or that wind or that earth. Yeah a combination of it... and? Harnessing those forces is doing what exactly?

Some say hey I like my simple life, not leaving my farm or village that does the same... when those come along and say we want a super highway so this place can trade through this place thats exactly how "boom town" starts. Tribal sorts get together that says hey don't mess with our simple life; urban planners say hey our life is simple selling that freedom out... and tribe together just the same.

So there is that idea of conservation... both working towards the same end goal but from two different poles.

The op and others are agreeing that Capitalism is under attack and thus the US is under attack, that the very values, traits and character that makes capitalism and America great is being attacked and brought down by the educational system. That there are 42 people who are running for offices at all levels that are endorsing the Democratic socialists of America, spanning some 20 states.

There are some things that need to be stated:
The first and main thing to state is that the USA is no longer the greatest country in the world, we are no longer the leader, and ultimately the beacon that shown out in our parents time, has dimmed. It is really bad when 2 of the things that the USA ranks number one happens to be the number of incarcerated citizens per capita, and defense spending. That is not something to be proud of. All of the other areas, the US is lagging if not falling behind.

The United States of America is not a pure capitalist country. In that system, there would have to be winners and losers. If one has 2 businesses that do the same thing, for one to succeed and be a giant, there is a good chance that the other will have to fail and go out of business. But the very laws that would prevent that, come from a socialist idea. There have been times when the USA did operate on that, and the final result were laws that prevented such from happening. The anti Trust and monopoly laws came out to level the playing field. Those laws were not capitalistic in nature, but had more of a socialist connotation.

The next thing is that not all ideas of socialism are bad ideas. A few of them, we all tend to enjoy using every day. Military, roads, public libraries, police, fire, mail, garbage collections, Polio vaccine, social security, museums, schools, public colleges, jails, subsidies for businesses, the VA, public parks, all elected officials, food stamps, sewer system, court system, medicare, flu vaccines, GI bill. In short any program or system where we the people pay for out of our taxes, becomes part of a social program and thus have a socialist idea and beginning. Many of the parts of the country that we enjoy today, have real socialist roots.

Would you not think that we should take care of the military veterans, to their dying day? That maybe they should get things like free healthcare, and housing, and a stipend for the years of service as thanks for the fact that we asked them to go and kill for the country to promote the ideas?

And if we look at the past 40 years, what all has the children who are now getting to be of voting age, see? War without end, in some places economic stagnation, when they are told that the economy is doing well? Jobs shipped overseas, with none to replace it. And the removal of laws that could make a difference in their lives, and a system that does not value them. A system that is not preparing them to succeed in life, but prepare them for a test. There is one political party that appears to be accepting the very people that no one should, and the other that is being demonized. And either political party are angels, and both often seek more personal interest, or that of a few than the good of the entire country. And both political parties have made such a mess, and people are wondering why these 42 people, and others like them are getting elected, it is cause they are sounding appealing and looking more to the people on main street, and not wall street.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

Bringing "country" into the discussion; means trade... the one's capitalizing on that? Means follow the money... following the chain of supply and demand. Thats how the real "swamps" get drained.

Me? I world trade on Ebay... not limiting myself to any material purchases by border. Meaning I help the world economy... not doing so means MFN or most favored nation in trade? Is left up to my government... being an independent and being that politics have been so bipartisan in the U.S.? I didn't change borders like many did or threatened too; I changed my voter registration.

Not even interested in being anything except Independent; being a moderate anyways. Perhaps one day the entire world will cast off politics like some countries already have.

Capitalism is under attack and thus the US is under attack

Whatever, the first Americans weren't capitalists, neither the natives or the pilgrims. America was mostly rural and agricultural all the way until WW2. We need to stop the propaganda about capitalism, is wrong and damaging. The capitaslists have destroyed more lives than all the terrorists in the world could ever do.

a reply to: BEBOG

But if people don't have money, or have to make a choice, that could ultimately cause a problem for any capitalizing on anything.

Think about it, right now people are having to make choices in luxury and essential. Do they get food in their home, or do they get medicines? Do they call off from work, or go to work sick or injured, further making it worse on them?

Those are real problems in this country, and it is not getting better, but worse, far worse time and time again. Many jobs do not offer sick days, or paid days off for such, so an employee has to make that choice. Right now, too many people are always 1 pay check away from total disaster in their lives, and have to make choices on what to buy and what not to.

And there is a real disconnect between those on main street and those who are suppose to govern them.

Here is the best example of that: Ted Cruz. While I was living in Texas, I would call up my rep, and give my opinion. when I called to do such with Ted Cruz, all there happened to be was a recording for all of his offices. And even when leaving a call or even an email, there was no reply. Now if I called up my Rep, or emailed her, while it was a a form letter, at least there was something to give a connection from her to me. And more often, don't you think that it is wrong that a person can go to congress, get great perks, make more money than their constituents on a yearly basis, get a pay raise every year, live in a life that most can only dream about, and when they leave that job, no matter if it is one term or 4 terms, get a retirement package, that no one can get in this country, to include medical.

Yet people suffer, and have to scrape by.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

Obviously especially where some expectation is involved... those sorts are in a state of constant unrest and not one of contentment.

When the present is all you have? That is the gift.

Life is what you as an individual make it no matter the situation.... no one needs a bunch of Terminators running around hunting which monkey fell into the moon... as then once it has your attention?

You're the fool or monkey.

The Democrats are so dumb. The American people DO NOT want a radical agenda, particularly after or during Trump’s regime.

They’ll follow Bernie and that socialist lady from NY and blow the certain lead they have and endanger getting a super right-wing SCOTUS forever.

STUPID!

The country goes moderate after a disaster president like Trump; they don’t want a kook left-winger to replace a kook right winger.

It was Carter after Nixon, and Clinton and Obama mostly moderate liberals.

Now I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

originally posted by: underwerks
The more Trump supporters rant and rave against Democratic Socialism, the more appealing it looks to me.

If you all are this outraged about it, it must have some good points.

yeah...that socialism....cutting taxes on the corporations and the wealthy and borrowing money to do it, putting coal dust/and other pollutants back into rivers, refusing poor people health care, food safety laws turned lax, NO more funding against cyber voter fraud, cutting back on financial protections for consumers, no federal minimum wage raise since july 2009, many lower-middle class workers having to work multiple jobs, rising gas prices, rising food prices, rents rising coupled with housing shortages......ALL THAT DAMN SOCIALISM!!

you people are laughable.

a reply to: jimmyx

Sounds like politics from a Rick & Morty episode.

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: underwerks
The more Trump supporters rant and rave against Democratic Socialism, the more appealing it looks to me.

If you all are this outraged about it, it must have some good points.

yeah...that socialism....cutting taxes on the corporations and the wealthy and borrowing money to do it, putting coal dust/and other pollutants back into rivers, refusing poor people health care, food safety laws turned lax, NO more funding against cyber voter fraud, cutting back on financial protections for consumers, no federal minimum wage raise since july 2009, many lower-middle class workers having to work multiple jobs, rising gas prices, rising food prices, rents rising coupled with housing shortages......ALL THAT DAMN SOCIALISM!!

you people are laughable.

What's laughable is being gullible enough to think the people selling a 'democratic socialism' are actually honest and have your best interest at heart. Actually it's more sad than laughable.

The reasons for the lower-middle class crises are the result of a hundred years of policy designed to take wealth from the general populace, and funnel it into a small conglomerate of rulers who I'm sure have your best interest at heart. Now we are being sold "the solutions" by the same people who brought us the problems. This democratic socialism idea will just result in more beuracracy and less liberty.

Given all the discussion, maybe what is proposed by Sanders should have a new name associated with it. Call it Svensk regering or some such to distinguish it from Democratic Socialism.

What those who propose such have to do is to convert all benefits, taxes, costs, salaries, and laws to American English and dollars or hours worked so people can see what they are getting at what cost.

This is far beyond the abilities of Occasio-Cacacabeza as she hasn't thought any of this through past the communist rhetoric. If she wants to be taken seriously, she has to do more than tap dance around specific questions. It seems she should keep her barista license up to date.

a reply to: pteridine

Well, paying taxes means paying for the very system of government we all as a citizen live by and under... when it ceases to be a house a shelter or even an umbrella it's just reign.

So when it is just reign? It must be grasped to reign it in... if others think they are reigning? Well... thats not very social as far as a publically funded government goes is it? It becomes a king and a round table and public coffers with the private coffers private.

Those private coffers of course are the black budget nothing to see here; government paranoia that there would be unrest or public outcry... so of course media tries to outcry the public with. "Please sir if you could just place your arms out to the side stand on one foot and follow my finger with your head."

So of course; there is a redaction period based on levels of "need to know" sort of like hey citizens... got you and the world at large a present. But hey come back and ask about it again in however many years... when we say it is ok for you to open that um time capsule that if people knew about it now? Would be you SOB's...

But hey all of that is for the "greater good" which means the world at large not the world confined to the lines in the dirt continually drawn; internally to those that have not externally changed in a very long time.

Those externally not changed say well have you seen the internal? We have no more tradition here like we used too... then those lines start crossing hearts since they have crossed minds so much. Then things get to a state of unrest; uneasiness; and unknowing.

Sometimes like that gift hanging out down the line? Best not too. That does not mean without question... which is what reporters jobs used to be... ask questions; not make an accusation grab a piece of gossip and see if some dirt can be dug up.

If one is buying apples a basket a a time; there is a question to ask... How long have they been in there? Means less likely you'll find any rotten ones... unless the person selling them to you lies about how long. So you have given yourself ammunition and the person given you their reputation to come back and hang out and shoot at; if they did lie.

So you do not even have to worry about a bad apple in the basket; IF you ask the important question first... going around digging and getting one's hands all over the apples first? Hey... what are you doing in that basket of apples!

Even further... you get home; apples bruised one make be rotten... so you don't fly in there hanging the person out to dry and shooting at them. Because some damned fools didn't ask the question; and dug all around in them; meaning the time frame could be the truth... but bruising them all up since then? Not the persons fault.

Perspective past is past thinking ahead? Means asking or knowing what is needed to be known ahead of time; or an easy going attitude... as in shrugging it off. Of course if the same thing keeps occurring; you become known as that person that will not stand up for themselves. Why selves? Instead of themself... cause it is assumed that a person changes... so more than one of you... is there really more than one of you?

The English language seems to think so... tossing out the word wisdom that occurs over "time" altogether.

So we have to say... what has all of the wisdom of all world governments taught us? Thats exactly what the US did in it's formation of government after succeeding from European and British rule... of course some people set in place? Hey! we like slavery Spain said it was OK direct from the pope himself!! Um yeah separation of church and state... the pope does not rule America all of us do... but it's ok if you're Catholic or whatever but the law of the land is the law of the land, the laws of mind? Watch out for the ideal... as that is called ego and just you, and how you have grasped and combined all you know up to well right now...

No one; can ever go farther ahead than "right now" no matter how far ahead one has planned. Ideologically, that right now is different for everyone... scientifically; that right now is a point in time universally.

When all things have a time and place... consider the previous; right now.