Isaac Asimov Memorial Debate: Is the Universe a Simulation?

Would there be enough computing power to do this?

Before you answer, consider this: Let's say there was one "prime" universe (a real universe) in which beings are running this simulation of another universe (SIM1). That simulated universe might spawn simulated beings who become so advanced that they, too, figure out how to run a simualtion of a universe, and they do; let's call it SIM2.

Now, SIM2 runs for a while, and it also spawns simulated beings who become advanced enough to run their own simulation, SIM3.

So now the original programmers in the Prime Universewe have a program runing nested simulated universes -- i.e., SIM3 nested within SIM2, which is nested in SIM1. Howver, the only the "real" computer in the Prime Universe is doing all that heavy processing of running three different universe simulations

Let's say SIM3 also begin their own simulation (SIM4), and SIM4 does the same, and so on and so on. The original program may spawn millions (billions?, trillions? infinite?) of nested simulations, meaning that the real computer back in the Prime Universe would have to be powerful enough to handle all of those simulations -- maybe infinitely powerful.


...Or maybe after a while, the prime computer would just crash. Maybe we are the 400 bilionth nested simulation , and if we do one more thing to overtax the original prime computer, the whole system will crash...

...and "poof" goes our universe.

Isaac Asimov: The well known line as seen via hollywood movies such as Bicentennial Man with Robin Williams.



for those unaware of the movie.

a reply to: BotheLumberJack

The idea that we are in a simulation is an infinite regress. If our reality is possibly a simulation, then every reality we think of is a possible simulation on the same grounds.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Yes, but a regress according to whom?

People like those for whom this thread was created?

If it were a regress there wouldn't be opponents in it's favour.

It's a simulation of the stimulation, now saying there was a humanoid/alien intelligence behind the making of such is a huge leap of faith, let alone logic.

Apples and oranges, wave or particle, wax on and wax off. Now I'm no Einstein, but ;
"So far as the theories of mathematics are about reality, they are not certain; so far as they are certain, they are not about reality."- Einstein



Is that cat that coming out of that bag, dead or alive?

a reply to: Specimen

"So far as the theories of mathematics are about reality, they are not certain

You are correct about Mathematics. It is uncertain.

a reply to: BotheLumberJack

I believe it as well. We are light/music packages walking around =). And I think the simulation has no time, it actually is like turning it on and off but we see it with a great span. The guy is actually clicking start and having a sip of his coffee. By the time he puts the cup back he has all the data he needs.

originally posted by: belkide
a reply to: BotheLumberJack

I believe it as well. We are light/music packages walking around =). And I think the simulation has no time, it actually is like turning it on and off but we see it with a great span. The guy is actually clicking start and having a sip of his coffee. By the time he puts the cup back he has all the data he needs.

If you're referring to frequencies then yes, I agree.

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

Just before Nietzsche went insane he postulated that eternal return was the "fundamental conception" of Thus Spoke Zarathustra. So 130 years later this returns again as a previously unrecognized Renaissance?

originally posted by: BotheLumberJack
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Yes, but a regress according to whom?

People like those for whom this thread was created?

If it were a regress there wouldn't be opponents in it's favour.

Yes, for anyone asking the question. If the question “do we live in a simulation” can be applied to our reality, it could also be applied to every subsequent reality ad infinitum

originally posted by: BotheLumberJack
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Yes, but a regress according to whom?

People like those for whom this thread was created?

If it were a regress there wouldn't be opponents in it's favour.

Yes, for anyone asking the question. If the question “do we live in a simulation” can be applied to our reality, it could also be applied to every subsequent reality ad infinitum

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: BotheLumberJack
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Yes, but a regress according to whom?

People like those for whom this thread was created?

If it were a regress there wouldn't be opponents in it's favour.

Yes, for anyone asking the question. If the question “do we live in a simulation” can be applied to our reality, it could also be applied to every subsequent reality ad infinitum

It could, yes. I believe that question could, is, and has been applied to our reality, along with possible subsequent infinite realities. What that means, we can only speculate. Is it subliminal? Or is it real according to our knowlege and understanding of what we deem reality to be?

originally posted by: BotheLumberJack

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: BotheLumberJack
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Yes, but a regress according to whom?

People like those for whom this thread was created?

If it were a regress there wouldn't be opponents in it's favour.

Yes, for anyone asking the question. If the question “do we live in a simulation” can be applied to our reality, it could also be applied to every subsequent reality ad infinitum

It could, yes. I believe that question could, is, and has been applied to our reality, along with possible subsequent infinite realities. What that means, we can only speculate. Is it subliminal? Or is it real according to our knowlege and understanding of what we deem as reality?

I don’t think it’s real. I think it is more a way of thinking about things. I’m not sure when the simulation debate started, but because it uses the language of programming, I would argue that the excessive dependence on computers and computer programs has adopted that foundation into a way of thinking.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

That is true, and as people used to a reality prior to computers, moreso. However, I must ask, did you watch the video atleast by half? And if so, did it not provoke you to think outside of the norm in which you are accustomed?

a reply to: BotheLumberJack

The experience of infinite recurring realities is more common for resonant artistic forms which from a more rigid scientific mind often appear to be "much ado about nothing". In the other extreme some of the ancient knowledge does seem to be timeless and reappearing in just very long term cycles with dark ages lasting for millennia. Even the most staid minded engineers experience upgrade cycles that seem to evolve in a progressive manner.

a reply to: Cauliflower

Yes and that's fascinating to me but then I re-listen to the video I posted and i'm back here where I began. At that place where infinite Questions linger. Who are we? Really, where did we come from, Seriously? Who's trying to force us to bow down and obey? aka Religion. I think we've all been there.

a reply to: BotheLumberJack

But I suck at math...

a reply to: BotheLumberJack

The Christian resonance emerged during the Byzantine era which is an interesting read.
There was the question of feeding the multitude with limited resources.
Humbling oneself whether it be through prayer or meditation can help one break out of ego traps.

a reply to: Specimen

lol

a reply to: Cauliflower

For the faith driven yes. There are those who can do the same without the faith you possess. The reason for this is that all belief derives from within, not from without.