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That time the Obama administration overthrew the government of Ukraine

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posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 01:38 PM
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a reply to: XAnarchistX

Heh, unfortunately Trump took it a step further and started supplying the Ukrainian militias with US military hardware

Something I oppose completely




posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 01:38 PM
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Problem with this type of revisionism/over-exaggeration of effect, is that it ignores the fact that the Ukrainian people were the drivers behind the overthrow of the Ukrainian government. They are the people who protested against corruption and Russian control. They were the people who were shot and brutalised by the authorities. Russia was the party who lost control of a vassal state.



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 01:40 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
Next thread title.

That time Obama bombed the hell out of Lybia to get rid of the democratically elected leader.

Followed by.

That time Obama bombed the hell out of and armed Syrian Freedom Fighters to get rid of Assad.

Followed by.

That time Obama tried to rig Israeli elections.

Followed by spying on a presidential candidate, and manufacture evidence to support golden shower dossiers.

For the last two years. I've felt like I been snipped on.


Great point neo96, Ukraine is far from the only country Obama "meddled" in. Since government officials are not immune from prosecution (as Mueller recently demonstrated), what stops these various foreign nations from charging him with a crime and filing a warrant with INTERPOL?



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 01:42 PM
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a reply to: JBurns




what stops these various foreign nations from charging him with a crime and filing a warrant with INTERPOL?


Nothing,

All Russia, and the others have to do is bring it before the UN Security Council.

It is a violation of international law.



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 01:42 PM
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a reply to: paraphi


is that it ignores the fact that the Ukrainian people were the drivers behind the overthrow of the Ukrainian government


I somehow suspect the Ukrainian people weren't aware that Nuland, et al. was hand-picking their government for them.

Furthermore, sections of Ukraine did not support the coup and voted instead to breakaway and join Russia. Why don't you support those people, as well?

Personally, I support both. I fully support a people's right to self determination. The problem is that one group of people have a fake moral superiority about them, and want to pretend that what happened in Ukraine is A-OK but what happened in Crimea/etc is not.



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 01:43 PM
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originally posted by: paraphi
Problem with this type of revisionism/over-exaggeration of effect, is that it ignores the fact that the Ukrainian people were the drivers behind the overthrow of the Ukrainian government. They are the people who protested against corruption and Russian control. They were the people who were shot and brutalised by the authorities. Russia was the party who lost control of a vassal state.


Did they do that on their own or with some help from some SOROS NGO?


Find me a country NOT having internal turmoil at the moment in the Western world who does not have Soros minions creating chaos and division.
edit on 19-7-2018 by seeker1963 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 01:44 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: CriticalStinker

We the good guys with cognitive dissonance.



We can mess with other countries, and whine like babies with stinky diapers if someone gives us a taste of our own medicine.


If someone gives us memes lol.
edit on 19-7-2018 by CriticalStinker because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 01:47 PM
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a reply to: neo96

Heh, we have seen (unfortunately) how much good that did with Browder, McFaul, etc. As far as I know, they are still wanted criminals with active INTERPOL warrants

Would be nice to see them tried and punished (if found guilty). If for no other reason than to set the precedent that double standards are not acceptable and that laws apply to all people not just us "commoners"



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 01:48 PM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker




If someone give us memes lol.


Ask an yee shall receive.




posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 01:50 PM
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posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 01:51 PM
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originally posted by: Whereismypassword
Those were the days that ATS had page after page of anti Russian threads by posters who now ignore Putin and cheerlead old wotsit face


That was before we found out Obama administration colluded with the Russians and got double-crossed.



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 01:53 PM
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a reply to: paraphi

Actualy the maidan sniper was shooting police and protesters alike and there was a video of a Ukrainian politician carrying people in his car and having an assault rifle with a scope in the back of his car

then of course there was the Odessa killings were the police turned a blind eye when Ukrainian nationalists set a building ablaze with Russians in it and then beat them to death when they jumped out the building

It was a horrible moment for all



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 02:27 PM
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Trump supporters turn Putin tankies to own Trump critics.

I've done a fair amount, though far from extensive, reading on the "Ukrainian crisis." It's pretty standard stuff. A corrupt af Kremlin-backed regime. Sketchy elections followed by rising unrest that leads to ostensibly "pro-democracy protests" which Western governments dutifully cheer on because "freedom." As the situation reaches a tipping point, the US is scrambling to back a horse in the race to replace the soon to be ousted government. The soon-to-be-deposed despot tries to maintain power through force.

Then of course it turns out that however legitimate the popular unrest may have been initially — because the guy on his way out is indeed terrible — the opposition is factionalized and the groups seizing control are the most ruthless, usually fanatics for some fascist ideology.

Russian plays innocent, blames the West and the US in particular for the whole situation and the US goes into cover mode. There might be some grandstanding and criticism about specific details to score points domestically but in general, the Republicans and Democrats hold the same sentiment that whatever we #ed up doesn't really matter because the deposed regime was terrible.

Democracy is nice and all and the epic struggle for freedom is always a good story to tell the electorate but the reality is that governments only get involved when there's a strategic reason because everyone is acting to advance their own interests and the rest is secondary.

That said, it's also naive to believe that a non-interventionist policy will be reciprocated. That is to say, somebody like Putin isn't going to stop trying to fulfill his geopolitical aspirations if Western powers abandon their own agendas.

This whole "taste of our own medicine" take to dismiss Russian interference in our domestic affairs is bull#. It's reasonable to want to clean up our own act but Russia certainly doesn't occupy some moral high ground, they're not trying to knock us down a peg to teach us a lesson for the betterment of the world. Putin is trying to advance his own agenda and his interests are not aligned with ours.



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 02:29 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

The only official ousted was Yanukovych. The person elected as his replacement was not the candidate the US wanted.

Seems to me that democracy worked just fine in Ukraine.

ETA: What happened in Crimea was not democratic. First off there were armed soldiers patrolling the streets. Second, even Russia's own Human Rights Council said that the results of the referendum were far different than what was reported. They said that only 30% of the population voted, and of those 50% at most voted in favor of breaking away.
edit on 7/19/2018 by Xcalibur254 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 02:33 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

The only bull # in this thread is two long years of making excuses for CLinton losing.



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 02:34 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian


This whole "taste of our own medicine" take to dismiss Russian interference in our domestic affairs is bull#. It's reasonable to want to clean up our own act but Russia certainly doesn't occupy some moral high ground, they're not trying to knock us down a peg to teach us a lesson for the betterment of the world. Putin is trying to advance his own agenda and his interests are not aligned with ours.


I don't know what ours is anymore.

Do you think our intervention (militarily or CIA specifically) has done more good than bad? Saved more lives than it's cost?

I agree with you, Russia has never even tried to hide behind a veil of moral high ground, because simply they don't care. They're pretty cocky about how they do things, and the vast majority people know they are out for them and no one else.

I don't think most people try to dismiss Russian interference rather than we're not going to throw a fit. How do you suggest we protect ourselves from propaganda? I have said many times I think we need to address our education system and make sure that we are teaching civics and critical thinking more. But honestly, what do you think we should do in response to 2016?



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker




How do you suggest we protect ourselves from propaganda?


Ban politics.

Repeal this snip.

www.businessinsider.com...

Back to Muricans will vote by whatever a tweet says, by a Russian bot.



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 02:44 PM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254


The only official ousted was Yanukovych. The person elected as his replacement was not the candidate the US wanted.


True, but our involvement is pretty despicable. Whether or not our intended result ever actually came about is immaterial to the question of "meddling." For instance, according to Mueller/Rosenstein there is no evidence indicating Russia's "meddling" in the US elections had any impact. Does this change the reality/impact of their actions? Our response? Of course not


ETA: What happened in Crimea was not democratic. First off there were armed soldiers patrolling the streets. Second, even Russia's own Human Rights Council said that the results of the referendum were far different than what was reported. They said that only 30% of the population voted, and of those 50% at most voted in favor of breaking away.


They were citizen-soldiers, yes. Including volunteers from the regular Russian army who went to back up ethnic Russians after the Odessa burnings/beatings/murders.

Russia isn't innocent in Ukraine or our elections, but pretending this is a one way street is very dishonest. (I know you aren't making that claim, just speaking in general)



I say that all guilty parties should and must be held accountable.
edit on 7/19/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 02:48 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

You're right. Russia does NOT occupy any moral high ground. The point is that neither do we.

Time to stop pretending otherwise. 20-30 years ago, the illusion was possible to maintain. But with mass-information and mass-awareness, the veil has been lifted.

Denying that reality won't help fix the very real problems our intervention/meddling has globally. Nor will ignoring the vulnerability that state actors like Russia/China have exposed in our electoral processes and internal political environment



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 02:49 PM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

That's right


I always mix up Yanukovych and Yatsynuk (spelling?)

Almost forgot that chocolate magnate Petro Poroshenko took the Presidency.



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