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Barack Obama signals support for a universal basic income

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posted on Jul, 18 2018 @ 12:31 PM
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How about a 1% tax on derivates


YAY!

Let's tax NOTHING!

Since that IS what derivatives are.

Pulled out of thin air like Fiat currency.




posted on Jul, 18 2018 @ 02:41 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Of course he did!

The NWO is alive and well.

I hope Obama rots in hell one day—-the same place from whence he came.



posted on Jul, 18 2018 @ 04:40 PM
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If we were to give people $2k a month or $24k a year, before not too long a new iPhone would cost $25k.

Then people would demand $25k/month, and an iPhone would then cost $1m.

Then people would start to demand $1m/month, and an iphone would cost $12m.

It's a matter of supply. Hand out money for free and it becomes just that, free. AKA worthless.

There's no better way to create hyper inflation than to simply say money is free.

Socialists know this but they could care less about money as long as they have their own servants.



posted on Jul, 18 2018 @ 05:03 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Good thread. The thing that I don't get about the UBI … universal basic income … is that nobody is going to make it 'universal'.

They are just going to give it to poor people … which is not very universal at all.

Why do they call it universal? Are they using George Orwellian 1984 style doublespeak, or what?



posted on Jul, 18 2018 @ 05:18 PM
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a reply to: Fowlerstoad

Most versions of UBI I've seen give it to everyone regardless of income.



posted on Jul, 18 2018 @ 06:41 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy
Oh, you mean just like how corporations make really bad business decisions and get free money from bailouts.



posted on Jul, 18 2018 @ 08:50 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Actually, we already pretty much have UBI. We just call it earned income tax credits. If you sit home and do nothing but live on welfare and raise 3 kids, you get a tax refund every year of $6-7k. How is that different than UBI?

In fact, one could argue that the proper way to do all welfare is UBI. Just send people a check. It's a lot cheaper than running all of these welfare programs (SNAP, Food stamps, housing, etc). Combining everything into one gets rid of a lot of overhead and would likely result in less poverty.



posted on Jul, 18 2018 @ 08:55 PM
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a reply to: Puppylove

Aaaand that's how you ruin it. Which I guess is not surprising since it's usually lefty's that propose it and they only know how to destroy. That will simply up the cost of goods. Just like college tuition. Guarantee that everyone has x amount of money and prices increase by x amount, maybe even more. UBI requires a phase out range, for every two dollars that you earn, you lose one dollar of UBI or something like that. That way you don't ever have a point where it is more lucrative to be on UBI than it is to work.



posted on Jul, 18 2018 @ 08:57 PM
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a reply to: Fowlerstoad

It's called universal because it's the minimum income anyone would make under that system.



posted on Jul, 18 2018 @ 08:58 PM
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a reply to: neo96

Derivatives are contracts. Contracts are very real. These contracts are all backed by something (shares, property, etc). In a sense, derivatives are more real than fiat currency.
edit on 18-7-2018 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2018 @ 09:19 PM
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originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: TheLead




Surely there not talking about every American, but that figure you gave is from a straight transfer of the money.


Oh so only 'certain' people would get UNIVERSAL basic income.

How quaint.


Of course, that is exactly how it would work.... we idiots who go to work everyday trying to make a living get to pay for it.
u KNOW that's how that would work. i wonder if it will start a civil war or will we all just shrug and sigh and and keep taking it up the ol' stovepipe until we can retire when we're 85 lol?



posted on Jul, 18 2018 @ 09:20 PM
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originally posted by: MantheDevilsApe

originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: TheLead




Surely there not talking about every American, but that figure you gave is from a straight transfer of the money.


Oh so only 'certain' people would get UNIVERSAL basic income.

How quaint.


Of course, that is exactly how it would work.... we idiots who go to work everyday trying to make a living get to pay for it.
u KNOW that's how that would work. i wonder if it will start a civil war or will we all just shrug and sigh and and keep taking it up the ol' stovepipe until we can retire when we're 85 lol?
any time the govt gives you something free, it aint bcoz they like you.



posted on Jul, 18 2018 @ 10:31 PM
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originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: theantediluvian
To say that UBI is "far to the Left" is really inaccurate. It has support in right-wing circles too. Milton Friedman was a supporter for instance.


Friedman supported a negative income tax, not universal basic income. Negative income tax would be used to phase out welfare and bureaucracy, while using the surplus to give a basic income to those who used welfare.


And we have negative income taxes now in the form of earned income tax credit. In fact, when you look at the tax rolls, the very bottom already has negative tax rates meaning they are getting money back from government, not paying taxes.


Very interesting. I never knew that.

But isn’t an income tax credit a credit towards money owed? In Friedman’s idea, they wouldn’t owe any taxes.


The lower incomes have little to no federal income tax burden. However, the tax deductions and credits often result in basically getting a tax refund even though they paid little to no taxes because they exceed the tax liability. The end result is a negative tax rate.

For example, let's say Joe Broke Guy owe's $2k in federal income taxes. However, he gets a child tax credit of $7k. So $2k - $7k = -$5k. So he gets a tax refund of $5k from the government.
exactly. i've seen it. i work in a highschool kitchen and many of the employees would show me their refund checks. one lady got over $9,000 dollars the year before last. she claimed not only her kids 3 kids, but her "baby daddy ol' lady's" 2 kids and got 9K for free.



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 01:44 AM
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originally posted by: generik
no, he is not kidding. most if not all people in ghetto housing, have running water, electricity, appliances like refrigerators, stoves and ovens, microwaves, more than one tiny room, TV's, VCR's telephones, indoor toilets, hot water, beds for different family members, and beds that are not on the floor, furniture, etc. that certainly counts as things that only rich people have in many countries. i kid you not. i have been in houses, where they are lucky enough to be able to afford electricity for one lightbulb, as well as houses with no light, except for maybe a fire that they use to cook. houses that are barely big enough for the entire family to sleep together on a thin mattress on the floor. seriously not even big enough to park a Smart car in. houses where they still use outhouses. houses where the only furniture was cheap plastic chairs and a cheap plastic table, as well as houses without even that. houses with no fridge, or stove (and no room for them either, with cooking done on an open wood fire built on a sand table, or a coal fire in a small box to cook on, and they might have a cheap Styrofoam cooler with ice to keep a small amount of food cool, if that. heck even most rich people may possibly only have a hot water heater for a shower, where most poorer people go to a well to get water and use a small pan to pour water on themselves to bath. homes who's sole "entertainment" is an old radio, if they even have one of those. in fact i see many people all the time that actually live with their family on the side of the road, sleeping in the hand cart they use to collect garbage to sell to junk venders, to hopefully earn enough to eat. even most housing for many "middle class" people may have only one or two rooms, and is smaller than a 1 car garage in total. and that is for a family with kids. even most expensive condo apartments are smaller than a 2 car garage, and may only have 1 or two rooms. most are smaller than the smallest apartments you can even find in North America. seriously i see these news items about people living in tiny homes and i laugh because they are so much bigger and far more luxurious than many middle class people with families live in. even those old, small, Sheetmetal garden sheds are bigger than many people's homes.


(A reply to Edumakated as well).

Do you really think that you have accurately desribed: "upper class housing in most countries" ?

From Wikipedia:



The upper class in modern societies is the social class composed of people who hold the highest social status, and usually are also the wealthiest members of society, and also wield the greatest political power
Link

To counter your point: all we would need to do is find an example of upper class housing, from any countries in the lower half of the spectrum.

There are approx 210-212 countries, so 'most' could be a number of 107ish, agreed?
GDP is a common concept, used to qualify the wealth of nations, no?
Look at this here listy of GDP: Wikipedia GDP of nations

Say we look even lower than that 'most' goalpost of 107, and below ranking, and consider the situation of their upper-class:
110/107/107: Cyprus

Well: at this point, don't really need any more examples, do we?
Well if you want more, just investigate a little into any other of those bottom half nations, and look how their upper-class are living.

So much worse, than American vermin-infested, noisy-as-hell, paper thin walls, upstairs neighbors stomping on your head, punks banging down your door, kids getting all of the wrong signals, dens of squalor, that you call superior, ghetto projects?
Just brutal environements, that push folks to their wits-end.

Some of the newly constructed buildings, might look half decent from the outside, but where do you think they would send a new applicant for subsidized housing? Do you think they get to choose the building, and conditions they want?

Anyways: not interested in going much further with this, as it just feels like a ridiculous conversation to be attempting.
The original daft comment was: "In the US, our ghetto housing projects are nicer than upper class housing in most countries".
Your replies were not true to that, and drifted-off to descibe lower-class living conditions, in lower tier nations.
Please reply honestly to that original theme.
edit on 19-7-2018 by Nothin because: sp



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 02:11 AM
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Since the Federal Reserve has stopped quantitative easing, buying government securities and other instruments to increase stock prices, Trump has lowered corporate tax rates that really accomplishes the same thing. The tax cuts are being used by corporate CEOs to buy back their corporate stocks, which is the easiest way to bolster shareholder equity. CEOs are hired by the shareholders to make money for them.

Tax cut policies for business are not intended for this purpose of stock buy backs. They are intended to bolster corporate expansion through research and development, create higher paying jobs, increase corporate infrastructure, etc. This is the hard way of raising shareholder equity and is mostly not being considered or considered on a limited basis. Immediate gratification to solve the problem on the short and neglecting the long term consequences of destroying the company.

Instead of a basic income offered by the government, which is a bad idea for numerous reasons. What say government rescind the old Reagan deregulation policies to get things back on track. Make those CEOs work for there huge bonuses.

It seems government is only applying a band aid instead of actually fixing the problem.
edit on 19-7-2018 by eManym because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 05:13 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Ha Ha HA HA ................you said free money. Im laughing because some people out there believe this. So does EVERYONE get free money? Is this money coming out of politicians pockets being how they are dumb enough to do somthing like this.




posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 09:59 AM
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originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: generik
no, he is not kidding. most if not all people in ghetto housing, have running water, electricity, appliances like refrigerators, stoves and ovens, microwaves, more than one tiny room, TV's, VCR's telephones, indoor toilets, hot water, beds for different family members, and beds that are not on the floor, furniture, etc. that certainly counts as things that only rich people have in many countries. i kid you not. i have been in houses, where they are lucky enough to be able to afford electricity for one lightbulb, as well as houses with no light, except for maybe a fire that they use to cook. houses that are barely big enough for the entire family to sleep together on a thin mattress on the floor. seriously not even big enough to park a Smart car in. houses where they still use outhouses. houses where the only furniture was cheap plastic chairs and a cheap plastic table, as well as houses without even that. houses with no fridge, or stove (and no room for them either, with cooking done on an open wood fire built on a sand table, or a coal fire in a small box to cook on, and they might have a cheap Styrofoam cooler with ice to keep a small amount of food cool, if that. heck even most rich people may possibly only have a hot water heater for a shower, where most poorer people go to a well to get water and use a small pan to pour water on themselves to bath. homes who's sole "entertainment" is an old radio, if they even have one of those. in fact i see many people all the time that actually live with their family on the side of the road, sleeping in the hand cart they use to collect garbage to sell to junk venders, to hopefully earn enough to eat. even most housing for many "middle class" people may have only one or two rooms, and is smaller than a 1 car garage in total. and that is for a family with kids. even most expensive condo apartments are smaller than a 2 car garage, and may only have 1 or two rooms. most are smaller than the smallest apartments you can even find in North America. seriously i see these news items about people living in tiny homes and i laugh because they are so much bigger and far more luxurious than many middle class people with families live in. even those old, small, Sheetmetal garden sheds are bigger than many people's homes.


(A reply to Edumakated as well).

Do you really think that you have accurately desribed: "upper class housing in most countries" ?

From Wikipedia:



The upper class in modern societies is the social class composed of people who hold the highest social status, and usually are also the wealthiest members of society, and also wield the greatest political power
Link

To counter your point: all we would need to do is find an example of upper class housing, from any countries in the lower half of the spectrum.

There are approx 210-212 countries, so 'most' could be a number of 107ish, agreed?
GDP is a common concept, used to qualify the wealth of nations, no?
Look at this here listy of GDP: Wikipedia GDP of nations

Say we look even lower than that 'most' goalpost of 107, and below ranking, and consider the situation of their upper-class:
110/107/107: Cyprus

Well: at this point, don't really need any more examples, do we?
Well if you want more, just investigate a little into any other of those bottom half nations, and look how their upper-class are living.

So much worse, than American vermin-infested, noisy-as-hell, paper thin walls, upstairs neighbors stomping on your head, punks banging down your door, kids getting all of the wrong signals, dens of squalor, that you call superior, ghetto projects?
Just brutal environements, that push folks to their wits-end.

Some of the newly constructed buildings, might look half decent from the outside, but where do you think they would send a new applicant for subsidized housing? Do you think they get to choose the building, and conditions they want?

Anyways: not interested in going much further with this, as it just feels like a ridiculous conversation to be attempting.
The original daft comment was: "In the US, our ghetto housing projects are nicer than upper class housing in most countries".
Your replies were not true to that, and drifted-off to descibe lower-class living conditions, in lower tier nations.
Please reply honestly to that original theme.


When I say upper class, I am talking about typical professionals - managers, doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc. I am not saying that our poor in America live better than a multi-millionaire or billionaire in those countries. Again, watch the video and it clearly explains how high the standard of living is in the US.

Astonishing Numbers: America's Poor the Richest

From this article:



In fact, America’s bottom ventile is still richer than most of the world: That is, the typical person in the bottom 5 percent of the American income distribution is still richer than 68 percent of the world’s inhabitants. Now check out the line for India. India’s poorest ventile corresponds with the 4th poorest percentile worldwide. And its richest? The 68th percentile. Yes, that’s right: America’s poorest are, as a group, about as rich as India’s richest.


Look, I am not saying the poor in America don't have issues. However, it is a blatant joke to claim our poor are suffering. They are only poor relative to people in America, not relative to the rest of the globe.

Let me give you an example. I tutored at an elementary school that served the Cabrini Green housing project in Chicago when I was in grad school. At one point, this was one of the most notorious housing projects in the US. This elementary school had air condition, desks, chalkboards, books, etc. Pretty much EVERYTHING you could need to run a school.

Anyway, a class mate of mine who was also tutoring was from Nigeria. He commented that he couldn't believe we considered these kids poor in that his school where he grew up was basically a one room shack with a dirt floor.

My point is that the world is a big place and it is all perspective. The poor in America really have no idea how good they have it. This is why the poor from all over the world want to immigrate to America.

Go see what the poor live like in a South America favela. Or Dominican Republic. Or Haiti. Then get back to me.



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 10:17 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

There is no tax on derivative trading that I'm aware of. Remember 2008? Why would I need to justify a thing when we bailed them out already?



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 10:21 AM
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originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: DBCowboy

There is no tax on derivative trading that I'm aware of. Remember 2008? Why would I need to justify a thing when we bailed them out already?





You're missing the point.

This program would require an increase in taxes. Doesn't matter what they tax, where they tax, it just means an increase in taxation.

It means taking from someone successful and giving it to someone less successful.



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 10:37 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: ScepticScot




A job guarantee scheme to improve infrastructure and social care would be a far better idea.


That was like... uhm... a century ago, but hey - let's implement those again to yield different results this time?



Lowering unemployment and better infrastructure, why would you want different results?


Unemployment isn't the problem when you work 2,5 jobs in order to make a living. And infrastructure would be what exactly, high speed internet connections or maintenance?

Frankly, I'd rather have functioning infrastructure that doesn't fall apart. And unemployment is a relative term when people care for their elders and try to raise some kids you can work with. That's actual work, innit? We need a debate regarding the definition of work, and an UBI is our ticket to that future.



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