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Barack Obama signals support for a universal basic income

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posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 08:39 PM
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Ok BSL then. Basic standard of living. Instead of a universal basic income. Figure out something we can compromise on as basic living standard we believe in, provide that, and if people want more they work for it or something.




posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 08:39 PM
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a reply to: randyvs

Bezos is worth $150 Billion now.

That rich #.




posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 08:40 PM
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UBI is certainly something we'll need to be seriously considering in the not-too-distant future - not because it's a good idea on it's own - but because it'll be a necessity as automation continues it's inevitable trend of putting the bulk of the populace out of work. So in that sense I'm all for the conversation starting to take place - however we've still got some time to go before it's needed yet, and if we start dishing out UBI now (within the next 5-10 years) it'll do far more harm than good.

Perhaps we can start by providing a temporary UBI to those forced out of work because of automation (and few other specific circumstances), with the expectation that they eventually seek/gain training in other fields in order to acquire a new job.
edit on 17/7/18 by Navieko because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 08:42 PM
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Bezos is worth $150 Billion now. 

That rich #. 


It's obscene!


edit on Rpm71718v45201800000041 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 08:46 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: randyvs

Bezos is worth $150 Billion now.

That rich #.



Good for him...



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 08:48 PM
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a reply to: neo96

You know how it goes, frame it in words or a phrase that sound good or fair to get people used to it so that's the image that comes to mind when spoken of, while underhandedly changing the details to fit their interest.



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 08:52 PM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
Ok BSL then. Basic standard of living. Instead of a universal basic income. Figure out something we can compromise on as basic living standard we believe in, provide that, and if people want more they work for it or something.


What you are saying you want is to be taken care of ... like a pet or a child.

Understand that in order to have liberty, you cannot have what you want -- everything provided because any authority strong enough to provide what you need is also able to take it all away too.



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 08:54 PM
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a reply to: Navieko

I think a very hard lesson is going to be learned with the advent of more automation, that quite frankly the majority of the working class were always the slave class. Once these jobs are replaced, there will be a small subset of jobs that replaces them, maybe 5-10% or even less. Since a UBI or anything similar is pretty much unworkable in any fashion, there's going to come a time when no social safety nets exist and you're going to have a population reduction. This is not just happening here in the states, but everywhere in the world.

7.6 billion people are not sustainable, especially with automation paving the way for less and less human need to produce. So either we go the Star Trek TNG way and people work because it's the right thing to do, and the concept of material wealth dies out, or there's going to be less ability for population growth and we'll see a decline, most likely sharply in the coming 100 years.

I wish I could say I had faith in my fellow man that discovery and invention for the sake of doing them would become the norm, but I just don't see it happening. I see us moving to a population size that maintains the infrastructure that automation can't, and the rest dying out.



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 08:55 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

We're heading to a point where there simply won't be jobs for people to do, and what jobs there are that the majority will be capable of does not provide a basic healthy living.

If jobs no matter what they were provided a reasonable income this wouldn't be an issue.



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 08:55 PM
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a reply to: Hypntick

You are aware that the growth curve in most developed nations is negative?



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 09:01 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

You have a Choice either go forward with a ubi or something similar or all those desperate hungry people will come to steal from you and yours... Which would you prefer ?



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 09:01 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I am, I also think that in developing countries we're going to see the same trend happen in the coming decades as well. Right now the cost and complexity of tasks automation can accomplish isn't quite at replacement levels for low skill labor, yet I work in the field of information security specifically in regards to industrial automation. The pace that this is moving is rather rapid, and I believe that a lot of us will see another industrial revolution within our lifetimes.



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 09:06 PM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian
To say that UBI is "far to the Left" is really inaccurate. It has support in right-wing circles too. Milton Friedman was a supporter for instance.


Friedman supported a negative income tax, not universal basic income. Negative income tax would be used to phase out welfare and bureaucracy, while using the surplus to give a basic income to those who used welfare.



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 09:08 PM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: DBCowboy

You have a Choice either go forward with a ubi or something similar or all those desperate hungry people will come to steal from you and yours... Which would you prefer ?


Class warfare and threats.




posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 09:09 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

No just facts of history repeating as no one learns from the past is all.



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 09:10 PM
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a reply to: Puppylove

There is a time in history when the controllers and elitist decided they wanted to provide the peons with options in life for nothing in return?



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 09:12 PM
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If UBI does not apply to everyone, who does it apply to?
If it only applies to welfare recipients, the few that I know claim these benefits as an entitlement, Even though they have received more than they have put in. These are the same people with 3 different cell phones no monthly bills, and wake up around 10:00- 11:00 everyday.
I need a better job.



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 09:13 PM
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from another thread, for a UBI of just $500. that means $6000 per year, per person. which would be in the TRILLIONS per year to pay everyone (since the "universal", means everyone). now just where is this money going to come from? do we just have to raise the taxes of the richest half of the population over $12,000 per year with a new tax. to cover both their share, as well as one share for someone on the poorer half of the population? keep in mind that to be in the top 50% of earners, you are only making about $30,000 a year. so they can not afford to do that. do we charge the richest 1/4 of the population $24,000 per year. which would cover their $500/month, as well as for three other people? keeping in mind that the top 14 of the population make $50,000-$60,000. so could they even really afford to loose close to half their income? or how about charging the infamous 1% $600,000 per year to cover both their $500/ month plus the share for 99% of the population? only problem is that to be in the 1%, you only need to earn $250,000 per year so they can't pay almost 3 times what they earn. so could we just charge the very, very top end people who make millions per year? at that point since there are so very few of them, would they be expected to pay yet again even more than they earn? and even if they did not, how long could you expect them to even remain in the country? chances are they would cut all ties to the US (especially the paying taxes part), take their money, and their businesses to another country.

earnings from wallethacks.com...-Middle--50

now in the above that insanity is only for giving everyone $500 per month UBI. would $500 a month even make much of a difference? in fact chances are in the end all it would do, is raise the cost of living by more than $500/ month. after all if people have the money, they can pay more, and thus prices will rise accordingly. and not only that but whoever ends up paying the tax bill for the UBI, will of course raise prices, so they can earn more, so they can cover that extra tax.



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 09:13 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

I can't wait until these fools try to put an actual dollar ammount on the universal income.
But then again they have no clue how giving everyone a raise will put inflation thru the roof.
Get the popcorn..



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 09:14 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: theantediluvian
To say that UBI is "far to the Left" is really inaccurate. It has support in right-wing circles too. Milton Friedman was a supporter for instance.


Friedman supported a negative income tax, not universal basic income. Negative income tax would be used to phase out welfare and bureaucracy, while using the surplus to give a basic income to those who used welfare.


And we have negative income taxes now in the form of earned income tax credit. In fact, when you look at the tax rolls, the very bottom already has negative tax rates meaning they are getting money back from government, not paying taxes.




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