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Trump scores on his own goal

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posted on Jul, 18 2018 @ 09:07 PM
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a reply to: soberbacchus

The spoken word cannot, by definition, be treason. Sorry. You obviously have no clue what treason is in the united states. Remember when a couple americans gave the soviets nuke blueprints? That wasn't even treason, and somehow you think a press conference was treason?? Damn. That's stupidity to the max. I really can't express how absurd that is.

Treason has a very specific definition and you must be at waging war against the united states for it to apply. Your idea of treason IS EXACTLY what the founders wanted to prevent the accusation of treason being used for. Yet here you are, pretending you have any idea what you're talking about, being strung along by a propaganda media who would rather have nuclear war than peace.

It's a sad day, but not because of anything Trump did.

ETA: The only way a President could commit treason is by backing rebels who sought to overthrow his own government and showed up with guns blazing to do so. Anything short of guns blazing is, at most, sedition.
edit on 18-7-2018 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 18 2018 @ 10:11 PM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

I see, so you go on record saying you don't consider it treason to give WMD blueprints to a hostile state? If Trump gave state secrets to China, would that be OK in your books?

The founding fathers wanted to prevent the charge of treason being used frivolously in courts of law. I guarantee you they did not want to police your thoughts or words outside the court. So it's on you, not on the founders.



posted on Jul, 18 2018 @ 10:34 PM
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a reply to: Cutepants


I see, so you go on record saying you don't consider it treason to give WMD blueprints to a hostile state?


That was the official ruling of the court. See what I mean about ignorance? You view that as simply my opinion, but it was a very high profile court case and one of the most recent trials where treason was considered. You don't even know about it, yet here you are, opining as though your ideas are weighty at all.


If Trump gave state secrets to China, would that be OK in your books?

That depends on the circumstances. Short of fairly extenuating circumstances, no, it would not be ok. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I thought anything short of treason was just fine.


The founding fathers wanted to prevent the charge of treason being used frivolously in courts of law. I guarantee you they did not want to police your thoughts or words outside the court.

I never contended they did. Now, do tell, what is treason and what weight does such an accusation carry if not accompanied by a legal remedy?

The problem with people like you is that once you've been exposed as ignorant, rather than conceding that you in fact were ignorant and trying to learn from it, you double down and try to worm out of it. Which doesn't do you any good at all. It doesn't do you any good in the current discussion as anyone else reading the discussion will see right through these attempts and it doesn't do you any good in future discussions because you never admitted to yourself that you were incorrect so you simply persist in your ignorance.
edit on 18-7-2018 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-7-2018 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2018 @ 10:54 PM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

My point is that the law only defines the word in a legal context. I can accuse an abortionist of murdering babies. That's not true according to the legal definition of murder, but I still have a right to say it, it's not illegal and I don't think it's necessarily immoral either. And I can say Trump owned Clinton in the election. That doesn't mean Clinton is Trump's slave or something. But both those things can still be true, depending on how you define murder. Or babies.

You're just being stuck up about this so you don't have to think about what Trump said and did. We don't live on some bizarre lawyer-planet from Star Trek where no-one can ever speak freely and forthrightly.



posted on Jul, 18 2018 @ 11:06 PM
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a reply to: Cutepants

I never contended you weren't allowed to say it. You can say whatever you want. I just contended you were factually incorrect (well, not you, soberbacchus).

IMO all of this "Treason" and "Traitor" talk comes down to one thing: the inability of some very high level people to accept that the ideals of the democratic party (or more appropriately, the uniparty) have been rejected for a decade now. This was personified by comey tweeting out that the American people are traitors if they don't vote for democrats in November. How in the world does that make any sense? How can the american people be traitors to themselves by voting how they want to vote?



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 12:23 AM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: soberbacchus

The spoken word cannot, by definition, be treason. Sorry.


Sure it can.




Treason

The betrayal of one's own country by waging war against it or by consciously or purposely acting to aid its enemies.

The term aid and comfort refers to any act that manifests a betrayal of allegiance to the United States, such as furnishing enemies with arms, troops, transportation, shelter, or classified information. If a subversive act has any tendency to weaken the power of the United States to attack or resist its enemies, aid and comfort has been given.


legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com...

Weakening the power of the United States to resist it's enemies? Trump? - Check.
Full on willful refusal to secure our election systems during past and ongoing attacks by Russia.
Full refusal to confront Russia during these attacks.

Time of war is a relevant thing.

The vaguely defined "Cold War" qualified historically as did the non-specific "War on Terror".

Many would say that Russia's ongoing attack our Democratic Institutions like free and sovereign elections qualifies as a profoundly hostile act of war.

That said...

If you find yourself arguing on whether the President is guilty of the technical legal charge of "Treason" or is just a "Traitor" or just behaves in a Traitorous or Treasonous manner? Then we are way past time where he should be impeached.

edit on 19-7-2018 by soberbacchus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 12:53 AM
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a reply to: soberbacchus


Sure it can.


WRONG.
For those who don't click the link: treason requires a war against the US and ACTS which give aid and comfort to the country that is waging war against the US. Russia is not waging war against the US and therefore the absolute worst thing one can do with russia right now is sedition. Which isn't happening.


Weakening the power of the United States to resist it's enemies?

Last I checked he increased our military budget and got NATO members to spend more on security, so not a check there.


Full on willful refusal to secure our election systems during past and ongoing attacks by Russia.

So he was supposed to secure our election systems before he was president? Also, what evidence do you have that he isn't securing those systems now?


Full refusal to confront Russia during these attacks.

He confronted russia about it in the meeting, according to both trump and putin. So wrong again.


The vaguely defined "Cold War" qualified historically as did the non-specific "War on Terror".

Who was tried or convicted of treason during the cold war? No one. Nor the war on terror, but someone could probably qualify if they joined al qaeda or ISIS as both of them formally declared war on the US. However, bradley manning was not charged with treason...


Many would say that Russia's ongoing attack our Democratic Institutions like free and sovereign elections qualifies as a profoundly hostile act of war.

Then many would be wrong.


If you find yourself arguing on whether the President is guilty of the technical legal charge of "Treason" or is just a "Traitor" or just behaves in a Traitorous or Treasonous manner? Then we are way past time where he should be impeached.


He is neither a traitor nor treasonous. Just because you guys call him that, doesn't make it so. You guys have this weird idea that the only possible way to handle foreign countries is how it has been done in the past and anything else is treason/traitorous. That's simply not the case. We are allowed to change our foreign policy stance at any time and especially the president has the right to do so. And in fact, we elected him to do so.
edit on 19-7-2018 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 01:05 AM
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a reply to: Kharron

Our entire system of Intelligence, put in place by Obama, tried to take him out. I would have done the same. Who gives a damn what country is what if they want you dead. I am an American too, but I don't think that America is the most trustworthy, innocent nation in the world. We are right up there with Iraq when it comes to killing....Hell, we're worse than Iraq. Our nation has been hijacked by Insane Liberals, and they talked out loud about having Trump killed, someone actually tried. They have been lying and attacking him at every turn...and then they had the NSA, the CIA, the FBI and predominately the Mainstream Media, to turn against him and defame him at any given chance....if no chance is given, then make one up. Who in their right minds would compliment those traitors of our nation? Just because these political and Intelligence operatives wear suits and work a job that you wish you had...doesn't make them ethical or honest. It makes them better than you, and they know it. Most people in the U.S. hate the NSA, the CIA and the FBI right along with Trump. Surely, you knew that.
edit on 19-7-2018 by IlluminatiTechnician because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 01:22 AM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

That's right. Selling Uranium to Russia is what Hillary did. I believe it's treasonous (as well as colluding) to sell Uranium to a country that may very well try to use it against us. That's really worse than International Arms dealings. I am glad that she did not make it as President (dodged a real witch looking bullet there), so Impeachment proceedings won't be necessary, but she should be behind bars for the rest of her life just for this. That's not counting the hundred's of other White Collar crimes that she has gotten away with so far.



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 01:25 AM
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a reply to: Kharron

Well played Putin, well played.

What did people expect to happen? Putin is former KGB and therefore is a master of subterfuge, misdirection, manipulation etc, and there's Trump with his...ego. Putin knows Trump has foot in mouth disease and he played that to his advantage, and now he has left Trump globally humiliated (i'm from outside the US and trust me, he's the butt of so many jokes it's not funny anymore) without saying a word.

Trump's true colors have finally shown and even his most diehard fans must admit he can talk before a big game without knowing how to play it-even his beloved FOX "true news" source is not amused. He undermined his intelligence forces and made them look flawed-a slap in the face IMO.

If I was a republican, i'd start looking for the next republican candidate now, by the time 2020 rolls around Trump will have no support from his own team let alone the public so now is the time to find and groom a successor.



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 02:14 AM
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a reply to: soberbacchus




Treason

The betrayal of one's own country by waging war against it or by consciously or purposely acting to aid its enemies.

The term aid and comfort refers to any act that manifests a betrayal of allegiance to the United States, such as furnishing enemies with arms, troops, transportation, shelter, or classified information. If a subversive act has any tendency to weaken the power of the United States to attack or resist its enemies, aid and comfort has been given.


Why refuse to bold that one part?



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 06:14 AM
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a reply to: IlluminatiTechnician



Our entire system of Intelligence, put in place by Obama,


Obama set up the entire network of US intelligence services?
Are you sure?

I know some Americans like to blame him for everything and a few even like to praise him for everything but....??


Selling Uranium to Russia is what Hillary did.


Wow....not being American I was unaware of this....please give me a link to the details or some sort of supportive evidence.



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 08:36 AM
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a reply to: Dfairlite




WRONG. For those who don't click the link: treason requires a war against the US and ACTS which give aid and comfort to the country that is waging war against the US. Russia is not waging war against the US and therefore the absolute worst thing one can do with russia right now is sedition. Which isn't happening.

well posted!
remember though that many of these are the same that pointed to a "matter" or "probe" when in truth an actual investigation was ongoing
words matter to these even if they pretend they do not



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 09:46 AM
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As an outsider looking in, I'm amazed to see anyone in the US defend Mr Trump, regardless of your political allegiance.

It's not as if anyone can deny he said what he said. It was broadcast live in front of the whole world. Yet, some of you seem so desperate to defend you decision to vote for him that you're still blaming the media and calling it Fake News.

Anyone that believes he mis-spoke is beyond naive.



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 03:02 PM
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originally posted by: NorthernRock


Anyone that believes he mis-spoke is beyond naive.


Trumpites do not believe he misspoke.

They just assign no value to the truth, loyalty to country or American Ideals.



posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 03:05 PM
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originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: NorthernRock


Anyone that believes he mis-spoke is beyond naive.


Trumpites do not believe he misspoke.

They just assign no value to the truth, loyalty to country or American Ideals.




This kind of sentiment is always prefaced by some form or other of stabbing your leader in the back as he tries to do the job he was voted for.



posted on Jul, 21 2018 @ 08:42 AM
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a reply to: Lumenari

Well for someone who is in the healthcare industry in Britain he sure finds enough time away, making anti Trump threads.
And he talks about a slap in the face of all Americans...lol




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