The not-so-secret-story about how a country interfered to win an election

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Nyiah


We can't even get the bastards to end the sexual harassment Congressional Hush Fund or even get them to expose the names of the rat-bastards who used it.

And who's fault is that?

Ours.

Our lazy asses let this deformed cretin spring forth to do whatever it wants while we shovel our money at it. Then we point fingers back and forth at each other across the isles and kick the blame can back and forth. How about we do something about this s# instead of playing more Kick the Can?

Exactly.

So I find it humorous and somewhat ironic that the MSM and we the great unwashed, all of a sudden have found our moral compasses since Trump has been in office and will probably conveniently lose those same compasses during the next election.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Cutepants

Name me one election that no foreign interests ever influenced.

Just one.

I'll even let you pick a country.

When I was voted Vice President in my junior and senior years of high school.

Now tell him what he won Tony!

An all expense paid vacation to where ever the hell DBC lives.

While there you will be enoying many cocktails and

originally posted by: Isurrender73

originally posted by: Admitted
But it's simple, as you say, everyone does it.

We just know about it now because Trump?

Well, ok. I'm glad we know about it now. We should do something. Trump should do something. Not meet with the guy on equal terms.

Equal terms? Do you even comprehend the OP? If Russia meddled we are on equal terms when it comes to meddling in elections.

Nationalism is a disease that infects the minds abilty to be rational.

What moral high ground does the US sit on when we brag about election meddling?

I'll take diplomacy over wartime rhetoric.

Right, but it isn't "if" Russia meddled. It isn't rhetoric, it's fact. They did.

And you are just saying we are no better? We have no moral high ground to sit on? Probably right.

But read your own words. You're fighting for what you're denouncing.

a reply to: DexterRiley

What you thought I was applying to our action towards others was the reality of their influence in our election.

Usually it's best having the full picture before acting. The extent and our domestic bad actors influence is still in question imo. Glass house and all that. Full facts before determination.

Doesn't mater that truth was revealed, shoot the messenger.

originally posted by: CharlesT
Doesn't mater that truth was revealed, shoot the messenger.

Or just ignore the messenger, I think.

I don't get this thread. I've said my piece but nothing from the OP.

a reply to: Admitted


I haven't made myself clear?

I do hate repeating myself.

What specifically is unclear to you?

a reply to: DBCowboy

You've made yourself clear. But it doesn't make sense.

You are saying meddling is ok? Because everyone does it?

originally posted by: Admitted
a reply to: DBCowboy

You've made yourself clear. But it doesn't make sense.

You are saying meddling is ok? Because everyone does it?

Jezus.

Point out where I said it was okay.

I'll wait.

Either show proof I said it was okay or apologize for lying.

Either or.

a reply to: DBCowboy

We ignore the facts that countries meddle with other countries all the time.


If you went by the MSM, you'd think that this is the first time it had ever happened.



I'm calling bullsh# on it right now.

Russia does it.
USA does it.
China does it.
UK does it.
Israel does it.
Saudi does it.


Everyoine effing does it.

...

I don't know how to quote properly...

But it's straight forward. Right there. Didn't say it was ok, semantics. Just approved of it.

a reply to: Admitted

Wrong again.

But nice try.


It happens. Admitting it happens is not the same as approving of it.


It happens. We do it, every other country does it.

Do you agree or disagree?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Admitted

Wrong again.

But nice try.


It happens. Admitting it happens is not the same as approving of it.


It happens. We do it, every other country does it.

Do you agree or disagree?

Oh I agree. We all do it. Probably.

But what's proven? And why is that ok?

originally posted by: Admitted

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Admitted

Wrong again.

But nice try.


It happens. Admitting it happens is not the same as approving of it.


It happens. We do it, every other country does it.

Do you agree or disagree?

Oh I agree. We all do it. Probably.

But what's proven? And why is that ok?

Now you're just trolling me.

Go clutch your pearls and swoon over it.

You're boring me now.

Can anyone point me to the actual ads or site where I can see a verified screenshot if said interference? And where they appeared and when? No one has been able to yet. I'd really like to see with my own eyes so I can decide how powerful of an attack on our country they are.

a reply to: Starhooker

I think they used memes.


Memes dammit.






Memes.

a reply to: keenmachine

So what's your solution? We should continue to do it and take action that other countries can't do it to us? None of it is ok.

Let me ask you this question:
* Would the US be justified in interfering in a hostile country's elections, if we can alter the result such that the US and its allies would be less threaten by terrorist actions and military conflicts?

I think most people would agree that a covert move like that, as distasteful as it is, would be preferable to terrorism or warfare. Certainly many conservatives and most Trump supporters believe that a "fighting them over there" offense is the best defense against their invasion of our sovereignty.

Why do you think NOW, after all this time is suddenly foreign influence is such a problem

With respect to why we are more aware of foreign influence in the US presidential election, I think this is the best opportunity they've had, to date, to execute their attack. There have been social, cultural, political, and technological paradigm shifts in democratic Western nations that has left us open to attack vectors that never existed before.

The Internet
The Internet, and all of its socially connective agents like Facebook, has completely altered the ways that we interact with one another; as well as where we go to meet our daily needs for news and information. It is a means by which our ability to enjoy our freedom of expression and liberty is amplified beyond comprehension. But, by the same token, it has exposed weaknesses in that social order. So, the power of exploits that can now be used against the electorate is also magnified significantly.

This target-rich environment provides an intruder the opportunity to construct a platform to disseminate disinformation and shape the narrative in a way that suits its purposes. A well-funded covert operation can effectively launch a multi-channel, multi-layer, multi-dimensional cyber-psyops campaign to subtly alter public opinion. That subtlety achieves it goals by a continuous stream of small, but well-placed, victories that excite the supporters and introduce doubt in the minds of the detractors.


Voting Practices
Hanging chads and confusing ballots in 2000 lead us to rush into using a variety of digital voting systems, most of which were not of good quality and design. Some of them were so operationally faulty that it made it more difficult to vote in some precincts. Nearly all of them possessed some security flaw that could compromise the outcome of its recorded vote. Yet, many localities were still using these machines in 2016 because they didn't have the budget to get anything newer.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting there was any kind of widespread hacking of the voting infrastructure in 2016. However, we'll never really know if the systems were hacked. There was very little, if any, hardcopy backup or other verification practices in place. And to the best of my knowledge there is still no defined and approved standard of how modern elections should be conducted.

And in many cases this attack vector is still available to be exploited. After the 2016 election, rather than explore how the election process can be conducted in a more verifiable fashion given our current technological infrastructure, the government convened a council to search for the phantom 5 million illegal votes that went to Hillary Clinton.


My summary
No military force on the planet could go toe-to-toe with the US military war machine. The only way to attack a much stronger enemy and win the day is through asymmetric warfare. I looked for a good Sun Tzu quote and this one appears to most apply here:

The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

So, an enemy with a much more restricted society is able to take advantage of our own values and freedoms, and then turn them against us by utilizing the technology that has allowed us to more widely exercise them.

How do you defend against an enemy that can so brutally twist our freedoms in order to achieve a goal that is so contrary to the very foundation of those principles. We view our freedom as God given, and enshrined in the sacred documents that underlie the foundation of our nations. We chafe at any government effort to limit those freedoms. So, how do our leaders, those whom we elect to defend our values and principles, decide how those freedoms are exercised?

I see some efforts on the part of the information and social platform business communities. I see some efforts on the part of some governmental entities. Unfortunately, so far their effectiveness is at least questionable; and in the end their actions could be detrimental by inadvertently filtering out valid criticisms and inconvenient facts.

-dex

a reply to: DBCowboy
You think? So does anyone actually know where I can view these memes? I really really really reeeeeeaaaaalllly hope you're not being serious about it being memes. I will lose all hope for world peace if memes is the reason.

a reply to: Starhooker

Five Types of Facebook Memes Russia Used to Influence the 2016 US Election

motherboard.vice.com...

Exactly. Hypocrites, the whole lot of them. And i mean anyone bitching and complaining about Russian interference.

They are fine with it, as long as it supports their own aims.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Thank you. From what I saw, there were memes aimed at demonizing Donald as well. Some Muslim group memes, some anti Hillary memes, light memes, and 3000 more ads. But they target all sides. I don't know. It seems crazy to me people are piss g their panties over this. I will never take a lot of people in here serious anymore. Wow. I wonder how Gaddafi would feel about this "meddling"..