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The not-so-secret-story about how a country interfered to win an election

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posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 01:11 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: soberbacchus

You also forget about Ukraine.

You realize how that all started right? Nuland's coup?



Are you moving on to a new OP?




posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 01:14 PM
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Lobbyists and political parties have been compromising our elections for years. Foreign entities like the Federal Reserve and CFR have been dictating US policy since their inception. The idea that Russia is a threat to the election process is just a big effing joke



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 01:17 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: introvert

Please refer to Xcathdra's topic on the matter. The indictments ignore crucial evidence in the public domain.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


I've read that thread. Unfortunately, there are other sources that could be provided that cast a lot of doubt on the work of the people involved in the material that OP linked to. In fact, I believe most of it originated with a select few individuals, more so just one individual, and their work has been called in to question by several other researchers.

There is some truth to their assertions, but a lot of conflation and BS as well.



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 01:23 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

He continues to deny and obfuscate for a variety of reasons.

If he doubts the assessment of certain intelligence agencies, he should address that as president within all of his powers and not make it a political drama in which he pushes his personal conspiracy theories on to the people, creating distrust and doubt for the entire world to see, in order to make himself look or feel better.

He is using his presidency as a means of creating reality TV drama for the boobs and suckers that will come to his defense, no matter what he does.

All of this is coming full circle, thank god. He is making himself look like a fool, and us Americans by extension, and the utter BS that his supporters use to defend him is laughable.

You may think we are stupid enough to believe the crap that rolls out of your mouths, but we are not. We see what is going on and you guys do not get to change reality in order to justify your own misgivings, mishaps and idiocy.
edit on 17-7-2018 by introvert because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 01:52 PM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: introvert


Did Bush and Obama admins have people on staff that worked with, or on behalf, of a foreign nation to hold up the dictators of others nations?

I don't think so. The comparisons are not valid.


Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Uzbekistan, Behrain, Myanmar, Ethiopia, Vietnam, Rwanda, Cambodia, Honduras, Uganda, Qatar, UAE, Kenya, Morocco, and Turkey.... There's a few.


Can you provide specific names for your assertion?


Those are countries we help prop up. Our administratons have been complicit with their survival.



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 01:54 PM
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a reply to: introvert


pushes his personal conspiracy theories on to the people


You need to have that conversation with Adam Schiff, et al. Those people are the ones that have claimed they've already seen evidence of an unlawful conspiracy.

I just want to know how Mueller missed this evidence that Schiff (and others) claimed to have seen a year ago.

It is clear they are lying. They are pushing this bogus, invented theory to hurt the President.

And you wonder why he (and we) doubt your assertions RE: Russia? They've already been proven as liars once (several times, actually) so why in the hell would we listen to what liars have to say? Obama himself asserted Russia did not "meddle" after his warning so please explain...

Short of hard, physical, concrete evidence... it never happened. Its just a story. An excuse.

Haven't you learned anything from the Iraq WMD fiasco?
edit on 7/17/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 02:15 PM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: introvert


Did Bush and Obama admins have people on staff that worked with, or on behalf, of a foreign nation to hold up the dictators of others nations?

I don't think so. The comparisons are not valid.


Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Uzbekistan, Behrain, Myanmar, Ethiopia, Vietnam, Rwanda, Cambodia, Honduras, Uganda, Qatar, UAE, Kenya, Morocco, and Turkey.... There's a few.


Can you provide specific names for your assertion?


Those are countries we help prop up. Our administratons have been complicit with their survival.


My apologies. I should have said campaigns, not administrations.



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 02:17 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

Complete obfuscation and deflection.

You did not address what I specifically said and instead pushed focus on to others, like Schiff.



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 02:22 PM
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originally posted by: Cutepants
a reply to: network dude

I don't get it. Even part of the Republicans and Fox News have been lambasting Trump over this. But all of a sudden the liberal anti-Trump brigade on ATS has realized they were fools all along? Sounds legit.


I don't care who else is crying buckets over this, my opinion belongs to me and I don't get my talking points from the television or news outlets. I have been very vocal about asking exactly how Russia changed anything with regards to our elections and the best I have gotten is they hacked the DNC, fished Podesta, and released the true facts about how scummy the DNC really is. And to date, nobody has denied that, just cried about it being Trump and muh Russia. Then Russia apparently made some memes and facebook posts, to really hammer the Trump win home.

Those of you who buy into the whole Russia hacked the 2016 elections really need to think hard about what I wrote above. There ins't any allegations of Putin hacking voting machines, or changing votes, just released some factual dirt on the dirty folks, and posted on social media, which I'm not sure is actually a crime.

Now we are indicting 12 Ruskies who likely will never set foot on US soil, or may not even exist at all. We did find a real live spy, which is good, I bet she isn't the only one here, nor is there none of ours over there.

And as the OP has informed you and I have been saying for a long time, everyone does this. So when we go to the international community and cry loudly over Russian Hacking, we open ourselves up for a large dose of sh!t pie. It's mind boggling that so many ATS readers who are supposed to be above the fray of the MSM directing you, don't see this for what it is.

And finally, I didn't like Obama, likely as much as you and others don't like Trump. But I didn't try to tear Obama apart, I voiced my opposition to his policies that screwed with my money. And the proof is in the archives. If you look back, nowhere in the history of anything, as a president been treated this poorly by so many. And not only that, those who support him, or even just those who defend against the lies, are treated almost as bad, and called names as if they all belong to the same identical group. Lie to me all you want, but in the end, you will have to look at yourself and ask the hard questions.



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 02:47 PM
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I just sit back and laugh at the Russian hysteria promoted by mainstream media. It's not exactly fake news, but it's definitely nearly devoid of importance. Rather, it is designed to take your eye off the ball while the real high crimes and treasons are being done to you by those who are charged to represent your best interests. Donald Trump won the 2016 elections because of a gambit by Hillary Clinton, the DNC, and mainstream media which failed. Well, actually, it succeeded in stealing from Bernie Sanders the nomination of the Democratic Party; and it succeeded in building up Donald Trump to misdirect the public from the Democratic primaries. But it ultimately proved to be a Pyrrhic victory as the blatant fraud infuriated progressives, many who refused to support the Democratic Party because of its actions, myself included. The Russians are but a side show. It is laughable what they did, and ludicrous that anyone would believe the little they did had any impact on elections. It's really just that simple, and the blame points inward, not outward, as result.



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 02:55 PM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: introvert


Did Bush and Obama admins have people on staff that worked with, or on behalf, of a foreign nation to hold up the dictators of others nations?

I don't think so. The comparisons are not valid.


Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Uzbekistan, Behrain, Myanmar, Ethiopia, Vietnam, Rwanda, Cambodia, Honduras, Uganda, Qatar, UAE, Kenya, Morocco, and Turkey.... There's a few.


Can you provide specific names for your assertion?


Those are countries we help prop up. Our administratons have been complicit with their survival.


My apologies. I should have said campaigns, not administrations.


I hear ya, and I'm not trying to be snark, but you do see my point right?

I understand where you are coming from, relating to people with discrepancies within his campaign (Manafort and Flynn), but in the end they wouldn't have been caught if this investigation wasn't underway...

I'm not saying they shouldn't be caught and punished, but if we looked back at previous administrations, do you think there would be people who would have been caught for similar things had there been large investigations?

I get if you don't want to answer a hypothetical question we may never have the answer for, but in the end does it matter when the administrations as a whole give military support, weapons, training, aid, and veto's to any UN measure that may harm them?



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 02:58 PM
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originally posted by: tabularosa
I just sit back and laugh at the Russian hysteria promoted by mainstream media. It's not exactly fake news, but it's definitely nearly devoid of importance. Rather, it is designed to take your eye off the ball while the real high crimes and treasons are being done to you by those who are charged to represent your best interests. Donald Trump won the 2016 elections because of a gambit by Hillary Clinton, the DNC, and mainstream media which failed. Well, actually, it succeeded in stealing from Bernie Sanders the nomination of the Democratic Party; and it succeeded in building up Donald Trump to misdirect the public from the Democratic primaries. But it ultimately proved to be a Pyrrhic victory as the blatant fraud infuriated progressives, many who refused to support the Democratic Party because of its actions, myself included. The Russians are but a side show. It is laughable what they did, and ludicrous that anyone would believe the little they did had any impact on elections. It's really just that simple, and the blame points inward, not outward, as result.


this guy gets it
edit on 17-7-2018 by CymaticA because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 03:05 PM
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originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: intrepid

Your topic dude.


yeah. You're right.

Been called a Nazi so maybe it's time for a change to be called a Russian spy now.

*shrugs and walks it off*


TBH I didn't read all 12 pages so I didn't see any "Nazi" references. That's just stupid. I'm just gobsmacked that it went from "Russia didn't help Trump win" to "Yes they did but others do it" at Warp speed. Gotta love the Spin Cycle.


Because Russia DIDN'T help Trump win.

Hillary being Hillary helped Trump win.

The DNC helped Trump win.

Some Russians may have hacked into computer systems, and IF they did get those DNC emails and leak them, they only exposed the Dems for their shadiness.

Was it illegal, yes. But they are not subject to our laws. Were they under direct control of the Kremlin? Who knows, I have seen zero evidence of that.

If some pimple faced geek hacker in the US hacked into a Russian political party's server, does that mean "The Americans did it!" or just "an American"?

I have seen no evidence of either action, no evidence that it was a Russian, and no evidence that it was THE Russians. Just the questionable word of our clearly compromised "Intel" agencies.

What I have seen is Assange say that it was NOT the Russians that gave him the emails. I have seen the report that showed the transfer speed of the files was consistent with a USB drive, and not an internet file transfer. Being in IT, I have unique knowledge of this area.



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 03:12 PM
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originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: intrepid


Corruption was exposed in the DNC. Possibly by Russia.

Cries of treason now resound acoss the country because Trump had a meeting with Putin.


We ignore the facts that countries meddle with other countries all the time.


Possibly by Russia , we haven't seen proof yet. I've seen DBCowboy's posts. I'll bet $100 if proof comes out he'll admit that.

OMG, our leader met with another leader?!?! Obama did too.

Since when did we or other countries not meddle? Obama with Macron for Pete's sake. Geeze.


Remember when Obama was caught telling Medvedev that he would have more slack after the election? Where are those outraged "conservatives" now?


Oh, NOW that's an issue for you?

Where was your outrage?



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 03:15 PM
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a reply to: poncho1982

LOL, being in IT myself, I understand your point, but you aren't talking to rational folks here.
I don't believe it, but for simplicity sake, I'll just admit Russia hacked the DNC and released all the factual aspects of why they are scummy, sleazy assholes. It's easier than trying to make someone listen when their fingers are firmly in their ears.

Oh, and dear Lord, don't forget the memes.



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 03:25 PM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker



I hear ya, and I'm not trying to be snark, but you do see my point right?


Yes, I see your point and I think you are correct. It is normal for administrations to talk to other nations. What does not appear to be normal is the depth at which the Trump campaign was connected to and had contact with Russian players.



I understand where you are coming from, relating to people with discrepancies within his campaign (Manafort and Flynn), but in the end they wouldn't have been caught if this investigation wasn't underway... I'm not saying they shouldn't be caught and punished, but if we looked back at previous administrations, do you think there would be people who would have been caught for similar things had there been large investigations?


I have no reason to believe anyone connected with other campaigns had similar connections/meetings. This does appear to be new ground, as far as presidential campaigns go.



I get if you don't want to answer a hypothetical question we may never have the answer for, but in the end does it matter when the administrations as a whole give military support, weapons, training, aid, and veto's to any UN measure that may harm them?


It does matter when you present yourself as an alternative to the status quo, which Trump did, and claim to be outside of the "swamp" itself, but turn out to be just the more of the same with a different twist.



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 03:28 PM
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originally posted by: Admitted

originally posted by: Lab4Us

originally posted by: Admitted

originally posted by: Isurrender73

originally posted by: Admitted
But it's simple, as you say, everyone does it.

We just know about it now because Trump?

Well, ok. I'm glad we know about it now. We should do something. Trump should do something. Not meet with the guy on equal terms.


Equal terms? Do you even comprehend the OP? If Russia meddled we are on equal terms when it comes to meddling in elections.

Nationalism is a disease that infects the minds abilty to be rational.

What moral high ground does the US sit on when we brag about election meddling?

I'll take diplomacy over wartime rhetoric.



Right, but it isn't "if" Russia meddled. It isn't rhetoric, it's fact. They did.

And you are just saying we are no better? We have no moral high ground to sit on? Probably right.

But read your own words. You're fighting for what you're denouncing.


Not sure about you, but I’ve yet to see any actual evidence, outside of comments by alphabet agencies...which any lawyer will tell you is hearsay. Can you point me to the actual evidence? Now, I don’t doubt it happened...but I do believe in due process and innocent until PROVEN guilty. Or do Russians not have the same rights as the illegal immigrants illegally crossong the border daily? You know, the last “crisis” the left has completely forgotten about.


Come on. The evidence is in google. Just search, you'll find a million. It's not disputed.

But, you're right. Russians are the new downtrodden. We should respect their rights. We should give them teddy bears. Just like we do the illegals crossing our border.

This is dumbassery. Come on man.


Quoted for dumbassery.

The evidence is in google?

I can google Sasquatches and find millions of results saying "they are out there".

The evidence is in google... LMAO

Thanks for the laugh!



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 03:29 PM
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a reply to: network dude

It aggravates me to no end that people ignore this simple, undeniable fact.

The files were "hacked" by an insider, who had direct PHYSICAL access to the DNC server.



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 03:36 PM
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originally posted by: poncho1982
a reply to: network dude

It aggravates me to no end that people ignore this simple, undeniable fact.

The files were "hacked" by an insider, who had direct PHYSICAL access to the DNC server.


Well, you can at least rule out anyone from the IC, so far, they haven't been allowed to see or touch the servers. Just take the word of Crowd Strike. LOL, this stuff is horrible, but at the same time, hilarious as to how most are reacting exactly as they are supposed to. And then they come by to call folks like us dumb. Bwahahahahaha!!!



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 03:36 PM
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Ok so I get the "Russians" meddled in the 2016 elections. But isn't that the same thing the MSM did. Fox, cnn, MSNBC, and CBS ABC. Come on it's nothing new, we do it to ourselves more than a outside foe. The polls for the 2016 elections we're a joke and way wrong. The DNC and Sanders, hell even the repubs did the same to each other. If Trump won then so be it and I didn't see voters with guns stuck to the heads held by Russian spies or hostages being held to influence thier votes. What's funny is people getting bent over the fact that the Russians posted on Facebook and Twitter things true or maybe not true. If a voter was going to vote for a candidate why in the hell would they trust faceborg. And with that.

At least no one died like the dictator of Lybia oh what was his name.... Can't remember that happened back in the Obama administration. Back in the day when someone wanted a leader removed they swung on a rope.




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