No, Jared Kushner isn't going to be indicted either

Despite the recent crippling blows to the bizarre Russia "collusion" conspiracy theories, some continue to persist. Specifically, I recently read another "prediction" relating to Jared Kushner. The person in question claimed, without a doubt, that Kushner would be indicted by the end of Summer. This is patently false.

Although Mueller's indictments make clear no Americans were involved in any unlawful activities, there is another glaring obvious facts these conspiracy mongers intentionally leave out.

Kushner's security clearance was revoked last year, and he was downgraded to an interim secret level clearance. However, after voluntarily interviewing with Mueller twice, not only was Kushner not indicted/implicated in any crimes, but his permanent security clearance came through, and was upgraded to TOP SECRET

Yes, this means Kushner will not be indicted. There is absolutely zero chance his clearance would've been allowed to go through if this was even a remote possibility.

Stay tuned ATSers, as we break this conspiracy down and put the final nail in its despicable/sour grape-ridden coffin.

...and before any useful idiots (not my term) come in here proclaiming/asserting otherwise, I give you the following excerpt from the NYTimes:

Mark S. Zaid, a veteran Washington lawyer who handles security clearances, said it was highly unlikely that the special counsel would uncover evidence of improper foreign entanglements and not flag it for security officials.

www.nytimes.com...

(as far as those making these patently wrong predictions, do me a favor and please don't try "predicting" next week's lottery numbers. You aren't very good at it.......)

If he got the top security clearance, he is clean as far as collusion. I bet some of the Democratic and Republican congressmen could not get the clearance he has.

I do think they should re-evaluate the people in the FBI. Starting from the top down.

originally posted by: rickymouse
If he got the top security clearance, he is clean as far as collusion. I bet some of the Democratic and Republican congressmen could not get the clearance he has.

I do think they should re-evaluate the people in the FBI. Starting from the top down.

Absolutely rickymouse FBI execs and our "oh so trustworthy" C-level intelligence agency executives should be thoroughly re-vetted. As far as the rank-and-file men and women of our law enforcement/intelligence services, I trust them implicitly. But there is no denying that discredited hacks like Strozok/Page/Ohr/McCabe/Comey/Nuland/Clapper/Clinton/etc have dealt considerable damage to the reputation and legitimacy of these fine agencies and their employees

Consequently this is why I out right do not believe the Russia-hacking BS. Too many partisan/biased incompetents involved to take them at face value. The entire investigation should be scrapped, and restarted by trustworthy professionals (possibly even private sector w/ special Presidential appointment or EO)

The real lie is the far radical alt-left's attempt to associate any contact whatsoever with Russian nationals with criminal acts. They ignore the reality that an actual crime must be committed before a mere association is potentially criminal

Looking for dirt on your political opponent, for example, is not a crime. It is standard practice

Cheeto-Lover...

a reply to: matafuchs

Cheeto-lover here as well!

😊

I already signed up with the cheeto-fan club (do radical alt-leftists still think that term bothers us?)

Maybe they should try making fun of his hair a few more times, that'll show us

He's a criminal and he gave away intelligence secrets to the Saudis among other nefarious things. Kushner deserves a firing squad as far as I'm concerned.

How do we know if he will or will not be indicted? The one thing we know is that the Mueller investigation has been very tight lipped and not leaking anything to any one.

As much as the Security clearance may show anything, the other thing that should be noted, is that the President, can clear anyone to any security clearance level at any time.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

He isn't going to be indicted. If Mueller has evidence he would've charged Kushner and ensured he wasn't given further access to State secrets. Mueller would've been grossly negligent by not informing relevant investigators with his findings if he would've uncovered evidence of a crime.

is that the President, can clear anyone to any security clearance level at any time.

But the FBI indicated this was specifically not the case. Kushner's clearance was approved through standard processes (hint: the delay was due to foreign investments/travel/contacts not criminal activity)

Mueller would have charged Kushner if he discovered evidence of a crime. This isn't 4D chess, it is a criminal investigation.

I must point out again that having contacts with Russian nationals is not a crime. Asking for dirt on a political opponent is not a crime. Obtaining & re-posting stolen/leaked documents is not a crime (otherwise, how many reporters in this country would be in jail starting with the Pentagon papers alone). I personally shared the leaked documents hundreds of times during the election - I also did not commit any crimes in doing so.

I also need to point out that Russians and Americans wouldn't be charged separately. The indictments relate to alleged crimes committed within the United States (on web servers). Because Mueller specifically cleared US Citizens (which include Trump, Trump Jr., Kushner, etc) of involvement in the conspiracy, that assures they won't be getting charged.

To be sure, there is no valid reason to indict Russians vs. Americans separately. There are no extra words in an indictment, all are relevant. Mueller would never torpedo a future indictment by saying something so stupid as "No Americans were involved in this conspiracy." That statements indicates he found no evidence of criminal activity among US Citizens (despite that some had contacts, non-criminal meetings etc).

Look at Mueller's past indictments, he's never had a problem indicting foreign nationals & American Citizens together (nor should he - there is no reason to do so). If he had evidence of a crime, he would present it to the Grand Jury and likely obtain indictments.

Respectfully,

JB

originally posted by: CB328
He's a criminal and he gave away intelligence secrets to the Saudis among other nefarious things. Kushner deserves a firing squad as far as I'm concerned.

I don't suppose you have any evidence to back this claim up, do you? and please don't cite allegations or loosely connected dots (with plenty of logical leaps) type theories either - neither of those are evidence.

For those interested, here is a memorandum from the highly respected group VIPS. Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity of written amicus brief-type memoranda to responsibly advise our political decision making processes. Looking at their past work, you will see they are not politically partisan nor do they push a specific agenda.

This is a truly a-political organization.

consortiumnews.com...

Here is a link to a broader body of their work. Again, you will quickly see they are not pro-Trump or anti-Democrat. They are not pushing any agenda. In fact, they seemingly oppose Trump far more often than support him.

consortiumnews.com...

I invite anyone here to challenge their own view on the un-official but mainstream narrative being pushed by the anti-Trump/anti-Russia crowd.

originally posted by: JBurns

Kushner's security clearance was revoked last year, and he was downgraded to an interim secret level clearance. However, after voluntarily interviewing with Mueller twice, not only was Kushner not indicted/implicated in any crimes, but his permanent security clearance came through, and was upgraded to TOP SECRET

Yes, this means Kushner will not be indicted. There is absolutely zero chance his clearance would've been allowed to go through if this was even a remote possibility.

I don’t know what levels of clearance you may have or may have had in the past, but in my 35+ year career with the government, I went from an initial, plain vanilla “Secret” clearance to an eventual TS with various high level caveats attached. Every time I got a higher clearance, my security specialist would take me aside and systematically explain where the authority for the clearance came from and what it allowed and required me to do and not do. After about 35 years of this experience, I think I have a pretty good idea of how it works.

To keep it simple and non-confrontional, I will just say that it doesn’t work like you (and a fair number of other “experts” on the blogosphere think it does.

The first thing to understand is that there are at least 3 different main security communities at play and each one has its own rules for admission. Being admitted into one of them may or may not mean anything about being admitted to others.

The first one is the category of what historically were called “Military Secrets” and/or “State Secrets”. This category constitutes the Confidential/Secret/Top Secret clearances that everyone seems to know about. The authority to grant clearances for access to C/S/TS material resides in the POTUS and comes directly from the Constitution. Basically, the POTUS is both the commander in chief of the military and the chief diplomat in dealing with foreign governments. In those capacities, the POTUS is allowed to both create and keep official secrets. George Washington was the first POTUS to use this authority and it has been used by every President since that time. The POTUS can (and historicaly has) set the standards for defining exactly what information qualifies for the different classifications and who qualifies for the different clearance levels. It’s customary for applicants for C/S/TS clearance to go through a standard Background Investigation, after which a clearance is granted. However, the POTUS can summarily grant a C/S/TS clearance to anyone he wants to. As I understand it, members of Congress are automatically given a Secret clearance upon election and without a Background Investigation.

Apparently, Jared Kushner was given a provisional TS on the first day he showed up. That’s not uncommon, but it is uncommon for the final determination to take more than a year, especially when he was the President’s son in law. So, in order to play by the book, the White House staff decided to withdraw his provisional TS until such time as his Background Investigation was completed. Apparently, that happened a few weeks ago and so now his TS clearance is fully legitimate. That’s all well and good.

However, there are two additional security communities that sometimes come into play. One of those is the Atomic Energy community and the other is the Intelligence Community. Access to atomic energy secrets are protected by the Atomic Energy Act of 1946. That law gave control of all data regarding Atomic Weapons (Restricted Data) to the Atomic Energy Commision. The POTUS can not have access to Restricted Data without the permission of the head of the Atomic Energy community. That particular fact is not of significance here; I only mention it to establish the fact that the POTUS doesn’t automatically have access to all classified information, anywhere in the government, and that that is perfectly in accordance with US law.

Of more relevance here, is the fact that the National Security Act of 1947 established a similar treatment of Intelligence Community secrets and gave it to the Director of Central Intelligence (DCI). Those secrets are referred to as Sensitive Compartmented Information (SCI). The POTUS doesn’t control access to SCI, just like he doesn’t control access to RD. I believe that after the reorganization of the US National Security Community after 9/11, access to SCI is now controlled by the DNI. When the POTUS wants access to SCI for either himself or an employee (like Jared) he has to request it from the DNI. The DNI, under law, has to go through a standardized process and—at the end of the day— has to certify that the individual is not a threat to national security. The Background Investigation for SCI is separate from the BI for TS. In order to qualify for an SCI clearance, you have to maintain a TS clearance and—in addition—pass the special Investigation for SCI. The BI for SCI involves not only investigation of the individual, but also of the applicant’s extended family. The idea is to dig out any foreign entanglements that could be used to compromise the applicant.

Ironically, what this means is that when Trump requested SCI clearances for Jared or Ivanka back at the beginning of his administration, the Intelligence Community immediately had permission to start investigating Trump’s overseas activities.

So, currently, Jared has a final TS, but has no access to SCI, and won’t unless Dan Coats decides to grant it.

In any case, having a TS clearance means absolutely nothing regarding whether someone may or may not be arrested for a crime in the near future.

I had a colleague who had a TS/SCI/ RD clearance who had been turned by an agent of a hostile foreign power. He was at his desk working when the FBI showed up and escorted him to what ended up being his cell, for the rest of his life. General Flynn had high level clearances when he was arrested. I’m not predicting that Jared WILL be arrested, but there’s nothing to prevent that from happening, just because he recently received a clearance upgrade.

originally posted by: CB328
He's a criminal and he gave away intelligence secrets to the Saudis among other nefarious things. Kushner deserves a firing squad as far as I'm concerned.

Why does he deserve a firing squad?
What has he done that is criminal and what are these "nefarious things" you speak of?

a reply to: c2oden

Don't ask for facts... that goes against their internal outrage over not winning the election! The President should declassify most of the evidence, only redacting items that truly would affect the national security, or expose field personnel. This would take the wind out of the sails of those who are using the Government and MSM as tools for their temper tantrum!

Py

a reply to: pyguy

This would take the wind out of the sails of those who are using the Government and MSM as tools for their temper tantrum!

Agreed. But I think Trump enjoys the fighting. Besides it is harming the folks spreading these false claims far more than it is hurting Trump. After all, he wakes up each morning in the White House

a reply to: JBurns

If a court summons can not be hand delivered to a person, how can they be indicted? And from all accounts, the man is beig protected by the Secret Service, which is blocking other federal officials from being able to do their job, thus preventing him from being indicted and seen in court.