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Let me get this straight: if I want amnesty, all I have to do is claim asylum?

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posted on Jul, 16 2018 @ 03:49 AM
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Lotta mouth movement about family separation and the like. It's a tricky issue. However, this sort of brought it into focus for me:

Washington Post

If you're behind a paywall, just open it in an anonymous browser window. It's not so much the article, but the comments. The defense keeps saying "it's not illegal to claim asylum, no matter the manner of entry" which I agree with! It is always legal to claim asylum. What isn't legal is illegal border crossing.

Then come the "moral" arguments" like "why don't you have any compassion" or "why are you such a terrible person?" Eh. I'm not? I think those kids are set up pretty good, and maybe they can clean their own toilet? Doesn't seem unreasonable. I clean my toilet all the time. Like, at least once a week.

I've also been in the army and I know how nasty communal living can get. And let's be honest, that toilet isn't going to clean itself. It takes 5 minutes, tops, if you don't let it get out of control. Which they're not! I, for one, am SO glad they're keeping those toilets clean! It's quick, it's easy, and it can be fun if you, you know, have a sense of work ethic.

So what's the alternative? Sure we could hire contractors to clean the facilities, which I'm sure would be great for big business, these contracts would go out to huge companies, and I'm sure that would also be fine, the difference in cost would be miniscule compared to the cost of food, shelter, and clothing, but there it is. Plus children need a sense of order, of discipline, of the satisfaction of a job well done. This is going to come across as more snarky than intended, but this is the land of opportunity! Do they think they won't have to do chores?

Let's talk about touching. There is good touch, and there is bad touch. Do we need to legislate the difference? Wouldn't it be easier to say "no touchie?" I encourage congress to draft legislation immediately that establishes a good touch from a bad touch, that way "brothers" can comfort "sisters" without fear of reprisal. Should clear the matter right up, right? WRONG! No Touchy! That goes for all of you!

Love you all.

Z




posted on Jul, 16 2018 @ 04:33 AM
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And this report comes to you from the "Social Issues" section of the paper. Let us be clear. This is an opinion/human interest piece. From the report:




When Angelica Gonzalez-Garcia decided to flee her abusive husband in eastern Guatemala earlier this year, she left it to her daughter, then 7, to decide whether to stay behind with her grandparents.


Well, her husband must have some f'ing clout, being able to track her in Mexico.




On May 9, shortly after illegally crossing the border between Mexico and Arizona, Sandy and her mother suddenly found themselves surrounded by Border Patrol vehicles. Gonzalez-Garcia told them she was seeking asylum.


Whoops. One border too far. So who traumatized your kid, lady? Surely it wasn't crossing the ENTIRE LATITUDINAL DISTANCE of Mexico before being arrested by Border Patrol, right? Must have been that detention center YOU PUT HER IN!



posted on Jul, 16 2018 @ 04:53 AM
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I want to talk more about toilets, if you don't mind. It's a passion of mine you see, and the toilet is one of the best things the French ever invented, even better than the croissant, the baguette, or even democracy. Sanitation!



He and the other children said they were assigned cleaning duties at Casa Guadalupe. In addition to washing dishes and helping serve food, they had to scrub the bathroom at least twice a week. “They didn’t even give us gloves to clean the toilet,” Diego said.


Diego! Hot soapy water my dude! Trust me, you do NOT want to take a dump on a dirty seat. It ruins the experience! The FREEDOM of letting it all go. The FREEDOM of being able to wipe down, then up, then sort of down-up. Unless you're really fortunate and it's a 1-wipe situation, what is colloquially called the "phantom". Welcome to America Diego!



posted on Jul, 16 2018 @ 05:15 AM
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But to the crux of the issue:



But two days later, during a trip to the park, the girl threw a fit when her mother strayed from her side to talk to some friends. “You don’t love me,” Sandy screamed before running off. “You don’t want me.”


Pre-teen, acting like a pre-teen if you ask me. That's assuming(generously) that the reporting is accurate. Sounds sensational. I could be wrong, but you'd be fooling yourself if you think this sort of reporting is factual in any way. It actually makes me wonder whether the situation is manufactured intentionally to cast doubt on the opposition(to Trump et. al.) Maybe that's the real conspiracy here: make the outrage AGAINST border protection seem so outlandish that it steers voters into more authoritarian norms, perhaps? Hmm. I'm open to your comments.



posted on Jul, 16 2018 @ 05:32 AM
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a reply to: Zelun

If you're broke, no work around you, no car, crappy neighborhood, drug gangs around, viola you get to move to Mexico and insist your asylum status upon the government there.




posted on Jul, 16 2018 @ 05:39 AM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

oui voila. Rich people move to Mexico sometimes. Not so much poor people. Wonder why that is?



posted on Jul, 16 2018 @ 05:51 AM
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they were ordered to return a little over 100 kids who were under the age of five to their families within a set amount of time. last I heard, they might have managed to return a little over half.. the numbers vary depending on which news source you are listening to. as is most of the news concerning these kids.. a little over half is one of the higher numbers I've heard.
something like 16 kids have not been returned because their parents were already deported.. and so what does the gov't ask the judge?? do we really have to find these parents and give them back their kids??? shouldn't they have given them back at the airport, when they were shipping out the parents or something instead of taking the chance of making them permanent wards of the state?
supposedly, there is one little kid (this one by the way may predate trump by the way).. they've been looking for her mother for over a year, just don't know what happened to her, so they can't return the kid... and here's the catch....
the mother, and the child... may have been US citizens!!!

you got three year old toddlers representing themselves in courts... climbing on tables and well... acting like the babies they are... even the judges are in disbelief!
I shouldn't have to make an emotional appeal, or argue about weather someone who crosses the border without going about it the proper way is eligible to seek asylum. just the insanity of it should be enough. they have taken these kids away from their parents, then classified they as "unaccompanied minors"... as if a three or four year old crossed the border all by their themselves, sent the kids off in one direction under the care of HHS the parents in another under the care of immigration, and now, they've screwed it up and have no idea who, or where some of those kid's parents are! did they even have the thought that hey, we are gonna have to be able to match these kids up with their parents at a later date when they were tearing them apart??
so where before we would have the family all in court together, as a unit, we have multiple court cases, increasing the load on the courts, add to that the additional cost of caring for these kids in this institutional system. and then... we are gonna end up having to face the fact that we have created some orphans, who will never be returned to their parents, who can't be returned to their parents... which will cost more money!!

it's the same conservatives that screamed about pizza gate and hillary's pedophile rings..... whatever it was that is so intent on justifying this.. I have to ask you...
what do you think they want these kids for because it sure the heck seems like they had the idea that they were gonna keep at least some of them when they started this process.



posted on Jul, 16 2018 @ 06:04 AM
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a reply to: dawnstar

It's bureaucracy. I don't particularly disagree with anything you've said, except to say that this is par for the course. Don't know why you brought up the pizzagate thing, I guess my only comment would be at least the kids are nominally accountable for, as opposed to catch-and-release. It's a hard truth about an economic divide: people do terrible things for money.



posted on Jul, 16 2018 @ 06:21 AM
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a reply to: dawnstar

This is new to me. Which conservatives were screaming about pizzagate and hillary's pedophile rings. Do you have names, or an ambiguous/faceless 'them'?



posted on Jul, 16 2018 @ 06:34 AM
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I could claim asylum , but that is where they would place me...



posted on Jul, 16 2018 @ 06:36 AM
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a reply to: dawnstar




shouldn't they have given them back at the airport, when they were shipping out the parents or something instead of taking the chance of making them permanent wards of the state?

You have Barry to thank for that one...



posted on Jul, 16 2018 @ 07:28 AM
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Definitely need improvement to the system.

If you want to claim amnesty / asylum one should be forced to do so at an embassy or at a legal border crossing. Come in, be processed,

It's just stupid when people are caught illegally crossing the border or after they have already illegally crossed and trying to escape the system to suddenly claim they want amnesty / asylum.



posted on Jul, 16 2018 @ 07:31 AM
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a reply to: Zelun




Lotta mouth movement about family separation and the like. It's a tricky issue.


Ya think? Others would say it's just disgraceful.

So. No political asylum for "The Others" once our Trumpets start to hunt them down during the first Purge next year or so? No touchy! Keep thy love to yourself!

What the fck happened to all you illegal aliens in the colonies? You're now the native indigenous people to make this decision after taking loooong tokes from the peace-pipe or something?




posted on Jul, 16 2018 @ 07:40 AM
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a reply to: Zelun




Let me get this straight: if I want amnesty, all I have to do is claim asylum?



Pretty much, yes, if human rights conventions are followed to the letter. Remember, the human rights conventions started out being minded at refugees, so refugees are very well protected on paper.


Now let me tell you about the European hypocrisy:

If you can stop them before they cross the border, you can deny them everything; they are not your responsibility. If they come by boat, ideally you'd stop them before they reach your territorial waters. This is why your wall and your separation of parents and children pale in comparison to what we do in Europe.

We let them die.

See, if we can get the EU border agency, Frontex, or the coastguards of the mediterranean member states to stop the would be asylum seekers from successfully crossing the Mediterranean Sea, we are in accordance with the human rights convention. No one will come out right and say it, but it is preferred that the overloaded boats just capsize.

Be damned the number of drowning children.

When it is verbalized - and it rarely is - we justify it by telling ourselves that the overall number of death will decline once they learn that they can't cross. Meanwhile, however, the count just rises. (And the thing is they *can* cross*, a lot of them just die trying. So they won't learn)

Again, no one will come right out and say, that we prefer dead refugees, however, we go so far as to restraining NGO's efforts to rescue shipwrecked refugees and threaten them with charges of human traficing and collusiuion with smuglers.

So we let the refugees die.
Knowingly and willingly, we let them die.

And noone bats an eye


So when European leaders and media cry out over a wall and a bit of separation, it is hypocrisy to the nth degree.
edit on 16-7-2018 by DupontDeux because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2018 @ 07:52 AM
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originally posted by: Teikiatsu
a reply to: dawnstar

This is new to me. Which conservatives were screaming about pizzagate and hillary's pedophile rings. Do you have names, or an ambiguous/faceless 'them'?


Uh, Micheal G. Flynn? www.nbcnews.com...



posted on Jul, 16 2018 @ 08:00 AM
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originally posted by: Zelun
Plus children need a sense of order, of discipline, of the satisfaction of a job well done.


You know what else children need? A sense of safety and security.



posted on Jul, 16 2018 @ 08:20 AM
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originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: Zelun




Lotta mouth movement about family separation and the like. It's a tricky issue.


Ya think? Others would say it's just disgraceful.

So. No political asylum for "The Others" once our Trumpets start to hunt them down during the first Purge next year or so? No touchy! Keep thy love to yourself!

What the fck happened to all you illegal aliens in the colonies? You're now the native indigenous people to make this decision after taking loooong tokes from the peace-pipe or something?


Yeah. Sounds good. Except we now have an infrastructure and a government that handles the very social programs that illegals want to take advantage of. When the colonists moved here, there was none of that. You're argument falls flat.

And sounds like you WANT this purge more than the "Trumpets" you claim.



posted on Jul, 16 2018 @ 08:32 AM
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originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Zelun
Plus children need a sense of order, of discipline, of the satisfaction of a job well done.


You know what else children need? A sense of safety and security.


Well they sure aren't getting that hopping death trains and being dragged by their parent thousands of miles.



posted on Jul, 16 2018 @ 09:16 AM
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a reply to: DupontDeux


Do you have a source for this?



posted on Jul, 16 2018 @ 09:34 AM
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originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Zelun
Plus children need a sense of order, of discipline, of the satisfaction of a job well done.


You know what else children need? A sense of safety and security.


Well they sure aren't getting that hopping death trains and being dragged by their parent thousands of miles.



That's gotta tell you something about what they were born into, doesn't it?



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