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Putin Meeting Lifts the Veil?

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posted on Jul, 19 2018 @ 12:31 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Blarneystoner

Which "they"?

TheRedneck


Sorry... can't help you with reading comprehension...




posted on Jul, 20 2018 @ 08:08 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



I was reasonable happy with Trump's performance in the foreign policy arena. His stance on the Russian invasion of the Ukraine and Assad's use of chemical weapons in Syria was stronger to various degrees than Obama's weak foreign policy permitted. On North Korea: The process of creating a path for the North Korea to "legitimatise" and join the international community of may well have started.

Yet Trump threw away all his current and potential future foreign policy aims for no gain whatsoever. Heck, Trump may have thrown away his presidency. North Korea has no reason to change the status qua unless they believe the only alternative is the complete and utter destruction of their regime. Assad, may now think that he can use chemical weapons in Syria and convince Trump that the incident is a false flag.

Strangely, the whole Trump is a Russian plant narrative was running out of steam. This is another reason why beyond his ego, Trump letting Putin walk all over him is so bizarre , the whole Russia narrative has restarted. I have to wonder if Trump isn't effectively looking to throw the 2020 presidential election, his ego won't let him decided against standing for re-election.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jul, 20 2018 @ 09:57 AM
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a reply to: Blarneystoner

Sure you can... just be more specific.

Is it Trump and Putin who are afraid, or the Congress critters screaming for access to documents they have no need for or right to see? Personally, I go by the old adage of "a bit dog hollers first."

TheRedneck



posted on Jul, 20 2018 @ 12:42 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Blarneystoner

Sure you can... just be more specific.

Is it Trump and Putin who are afraid, or the Congress critters screaming for access to documents they have no need for or right to see? Personally, I go by the old adage of "a bit dog hollers first."

TheRedneck


How do you figure that Congress and the American people have no right to know what went on in a private meeting between Putin and Trump? If we still live in a Democracy where the government represents the will of the people, we have every right to know what was discussed.

If you want to trust Trump blindly, than by-all-means, keep those blinders on. However, the rest of us aren't as trusting....



posted on Jul, 20 2018 @ 12:50 PM
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a reply to: Blarneystoner

We don't have the right to see anything we want. That's pretty much self-evident by the fact that some government documents are classified.

As for blind trust... are you suggesting they signed a secret treaty? If they did, it's not worth the paper they used. Congress has to ratify treaties, in which case the information does become public domain. As long as Trump did not break any laws, I trust his ample negotiating skills to give him the benefit of the doubt. If he did, well, that'll come out in time.

That's not blind trust.

TheRedneck



posted on Jul, 20 2018 @ 01:12 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Blarneystoner

We don't have the right to see anything we want. That's pretty much self-evident by the fact that some government documents are classified.

As for blind trust... are you suggesting they signed a secret treaty? If they did, it's not worth the paper they used. Congress has to ratify treaties, in which case the information does become public domain. As long as Trump did not break any laws, I trust his ample negotiating skills to give him the benefit of the doubt. If he did, well, that'll come out in time.

That's not blind trust.

TheRedneck


Giving Trump the benefit of the doubt is a naive stance to take. Especially considering he was licking Putin's boots during the presser. He consistently contradicts his own narrative and people like yourself flip flop their position with each new press conference. He complains about lack of fair coverage but remains secretive about what was discussed. If he has nothing to hide, he shouldn't fear disclosure.

We don't live in a Democracy anymore, it's an Oligarchy and Trump is the puppet of the elite. He dances and fiddles while burning the Democracy my forefathers fought and died for. He has proven over and over that his interests are focused on personal gain at the expense of national security and the will of the people.

No, I'm not suggesting that they signed a secret treaty but Russia’s ambassador Anatoly Antonov, told journalists in Russia that “important verbal agreements” had been reached.

So, you tell me.... why the hell would anyone blindly trust a man who consistently lies, changes his story, and makes "agreements" with foreign adversary leaders without any disclosure to the American people, the nations intelligence orgs and his own staff?

If it looks and smells like sh*t... it's probably sh*t....

BTW - I'm the guy you all have to convince. I'm a middle-aged middle-class white guy with a steady job (over 20 years). I'm a moderate. I didn't vote for Hillary or Trump in the last election. As it stands right now, I'll be pulling the lever in November for anyone running against an incumbent Republican... most of my friends feel the same...

edit on 20-7-2018 by Blarneystoner because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2018 @ 01:31 PM
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a reply to: Blarneystoner


Giving Trump the benefit of the doubt is a naive stance to take. Especially considering he was licking Putin's boots during the presser. He consistently contradicts his own narrative and people like yourself flip flop their position with each new press conference. He complains about lack of fair coverage but remains secretive about what was discussed. If he has nothing to hide, he shouldn't fear disclosure.

He licked Putin's boots? When? I watched the press conference and never saw that. You'd think I would have noticed...

I'm still waiting for a contradiction. I mean, there is this thing called context...

He should complain about fair coverage... he was dissed over having an extra scoop of ice cream on his freakin' cake! He was verbally assaulted for months for firing quite possibly the worst FBI director in history. He has been accused of firing Mueller now, what? Three, four times? Mueller's not fired yet. As far as being secretive, why would he give a press conference, with questions, on something he is supposedly trying to keep secret? That's not what I call secret.


No, I'm not suggesting that they signed a secret treaty but Russia’s ambassador Anatoly Antonov, told journalists in Russia that “important verbal agreements” had been reached.

You do realize they talked openly about "important verbal agreements" in the press conference?

Sounds to me like you're just upset because Trump didn't sell the country out... I'm sorry; I do not understand the willingness to see the country hurt just to avenge losing an election. I doubt I ever will.

TheRedneck



posted on Jul, 20 2018 @ 01:50 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Blarneystoner


Giving Trump the benefit of the doubt is a naive stance to take. Especially considering he was licking Putin's boots during the presser. He consistently contradicts his own narrative and people like yourself flip flop their position with each new press conference. He complains about lack of fair coverage but remains secretive about what was discussed. If he has nothing to hide, he shouldn't fear disclosure.

He licked Putin's boots? When? I watched the press conference and never saw that. You'd think I would have noticed...

I'm still waiting for a contradiction. I mean, there is this thing called context...

He should complain about fair coverage... he was dissed over having an extra scoop of ice cream on his freakin' cake! He was verbally assaulted for months for firing quite possibly the worst FBI director in history. He has been accused of firing Mueller now, what? Three, four times? Mueller's not fired yet. As far as being secretive, why would he give a press conference, with questions, on something he is supposedly trying to keep secret? That's not what I call secret.


No, I'm not suggesting that they signed a secret treaty but Russia’s ambassador Anatoly Antonov, told journalists in Russia that “important verbal agreements” had been reached.

You do realize they talked openly about "important verbal agreements" in the press conference?

Sounds to me like you're just upset because Trump didn't sell the country out... I'm sorry; I do not understand the willingness to see the country hurt just to avenge losing an election. I doubt I ever will.

TheRedneck


Why do you guys always assume that anyone critical of Trump must be a Hillary supporter? I didn't vote for her and I'm pretty sure I've told you that before. That sh*t is so weak.....

If it sounds like I'm upset " because Trump didn't sell the country out", than you still need work on your reading comprehension skills. I'm concerned because he IS selling the country out. Context man... you can't just throw out standard rebuttals without understanding the context.

Can you elaborate on the "verbal agreements" they discussed? I'm pretty sure I know of one agreement already. Putin told Trump to bash Montenegro, a tiny little country that is probably going to start WWIII.... LMAO!!!

Again... I'm the guy that needs to be convinced that Trump isn't a total loss, a traitor and the worst POTUS this country has ever seen.



posted on Jul, 20 2018 @ 03:34 PM
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This is the kind of thing that makes it very hard to trust trump.




posted on Jul, 20 2018 @ 07:14 PM
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a reply to: Blarneystoner


Why do you guys always assume that anyone critical of Trump must be a Hillary supporter? I didn't vote for her and I'm pretty sure I've told you that before. That sh*t is so weak.....

OK, fine... you're not a Hillary supporter. That actually makes it worse, because you just admitted that you have absolutely no reason to hate Trump so much and help spread lies about him other than you want the country to suffer. I was at least giving you the benefit of the doubt that you had a less nefarious reason.


If it sounds like I'm upset " because Trump didn't sell the country out", than you still need work on your reading comprehension skills. I'm concerned because he IS selling the country out.

heh, sounds like you're just confused then.

I want to know exactly how he's selling the country out. I don't see it, and hysterics is not helping me see your point. I don't care about your personal views on the man... that's irrelevant. I want to know specific actions he has taken which are contrary to the Constitution.


Can you elaborate on the "verbal agreements" they discussed? I'm pretty sure I know of one agreement already. Putin told Trump to bash Montenegro, a tiny little country that is probably going to start WWIII.... LMAO!!!

I don't need to. I can pull it up on YouTube any time I want. The press conference was televised globally from Helsinki, and the recording is public.

Please provide me with some evidence that Putin told Trump to bash anyone. Unless you were listening in to their conversation using stealth technology, I don't think you can pull that one off.


Again... I'm the guy that needs to be convinced that Trump isn't a total loss, a traitor and the worst POTUS this country has ever seen.

Impossible. Your mind is closed. No one can convince you of anything. So be it... Trump is still President, will be for two more years, and likely will be until 2024. The Democrats will suffer yet another crushing defeat during the midterms in November, and the country will continue to prosper. All because of the hysterics... normal people do not like hysterics.

As to your next post:

This is the kind of thing that makes it very hard to trust trump.

Ready for cooperation with Russia is a bad thing? You do realize what refusing to cooperate with any foreign nuclear power can lead to, right? That's what has the possibility of causing WWIII, not tweeting mean things about Montenegro (assuming he did that; I haven't seen it yet).

Diplomacy is preferable to war, and diplomacy requires some amount of cooperation. The two countries have to cooperate to set up a schedule to talk! How is that, how is promoting peace, making it hard to trust Trump?

When do you think we should launch the nukes at Russia?

TheRedneck



posted on Jul, 21 2018 @ 12:07 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck


You do realize they talked openly about "important verbal agreements" in the press conference?


"Important verbal agreements" Trump refuses to inform Congress about. Meanwhile:

tass.com...



posted on Jul, 21 2018 @ 02:06 PM
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a reply to: DJW001

What, Congress can't see the press conference?


TheRedneck



posted on Jul, 23 2018 @ 01:57 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck


That actually makes it worse, because you just admitted that you have absolutely no reason to hate Trump.


Don't be dumb... I did no such thing.


Impossible. Your mind is closed. No one can convince you of anything.


You don't know a damn thing about me so stop pretending you do. I am now convinced that you can't think critically where before I was sort of on the fence.


Diplomacy is preferable to war, and diplomacy requires some amount of cooperation.


Collusion is not diplomacy... it's treason.



posted on Jul, 24 2018 @ 12:41 AM
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a reply to: Blarneystoner
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



Trump is not solely to blame for Russia's unchecked expansion. Germany in a twist of historical irony is practicing the policy of appeasement, they have decided the Ukraine's fate is of little importance to the course of European affairs. Merkel's priority is the preservation of the EU, effectively their economic dominance of western Europe, they failed to do this across the span of two world wars. Incidentally, Trump was correct to call out Germany's importing natural gas from Russia. Merkel is serving Putin's interests to a greater degree than Trump, yet she isn't accused of treason.


Has Trump's foreign policy performance declined since the departure of Tillerson and McMaster from the White House? McMaster and to a degree Tillerson had the ability to transform "America First" dogma/ ad hoc thinking into a realism based foreign policy. Both men had the moral courage to stand up to power. In standing up to Trump, they would have trimmed the worst excesses of his personality. Trump's ego driven and anti intellectual unilateral decision making process was on display in his summit with Putin.



As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jul, 24 2018 @ 05:07 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck


What, Congress can't see the press conference?


What did Trump and Putin agree to do? Be specific.



posted on Jul, 24 2018 @ 10:49 AM
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originally posted by: xpert11
a reply to: Blarneystoner

Trump is not solely to blame for Russia's unchecked expansion. Germany in a twist of historical irony is practicing the policy of appeasement, they have decided the Ukraine's fate is of little importance to the course of European affairs.


No… Merkel is not appeasing Putin. Prior to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in 2014, Merkel secured financial sanctions of Russia by gaining acceptance from the German business lobby, approximately 6,000 firms that depend upon trade with Russia to survive. She also rallied the 27 member states of the EU to do the same.

After Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014, Merkel was instrumental in securing a semi-permanent cease fire.
Recently in April of 2018, Merkel made it clear to Russia that the Nord Stream 2 project cannot exclude Ukraine in future transit roles which equates to about $3bn per year. A serious benefit to Ukraine’s battered economy.

The irony here is that it’s actually Trump who is attempting to appease Russia. Merkel stood up to Trump when he called for Russia to be readmitted to the G7 after it was kicked out for the invasion of Ukraine. "We are in agreement that a return of Russia to the G7 cannot happen unless substantial progress is made in terms of the problems with Ukraine." Merkel told reporters.


Merkel's priority is the preservation of the EU, effectively their economic dominance of western Europe, they failed to do this across the span of two world wars.


What’s wrong with that? Germany is the most populous and economically healthy nation in the EU and the 4th largest economy in the world. With other EU countries fading into obscurity and bankruptcy, Germany has come to dominate EU domestic policy as well as foreign.

Germany is Russia’s 2nd largest source of imported goods…. Which is a very powerful position to be in.


Incidentally, Trump was correct to call out Germany's importing natural gas from Russia. Merkel is serving Putin's interests to a greater degree than Trump, yet she isn't accused of treason.


Nope… It’s just a matter of financial concerns. Less than 20% of Germany’s power is derived from natural gas. The gas coming from Russia is not liquefied and therefore cheaper. Private business is the driving force behind the import of natural gas from Russia, not the government of Germany.

This is why the leaders of the EU smirk and roll their eyes at Trump’s idiotic statement that Russia controls Germany. It’s more accurate to say that Germany has more power and influence over Russia than the Russians do over Germany.
I don’t think Trump too stupid to understand the nuances of Germany’s relationship to Russia, so I can only conclude that Trump is acting in the best interests of Russia…. Per his handler…. Putin.


Trump's ego driven and anti intellectual unilateral decision making process was on display in his summit with Putin.


I think you underestimate Trump here…. His decision making process wasn’t ego driven… it was financially driven. He’s lining his pockets at the expense of national security.





posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 04:20 AM
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a reply to: Blarneystoner
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



The implementation of sanctions failed to stop Iran and North Korea's nuclear weapons programs. So it is no surprise that any sanctions imposed on Russia have had no effect on their invasion of the Ukraine. Putin likely welcomes sanctions, shortages of consumer goods helps to prepare the Russian people for wartime conditions.

As Germany phrases out nuclear power, in all likelihood their energy dependency on Russia will only increase, so the anti nuclear political left are unwittingly playing into Putin's hands. Those who peddle the idea of Trump as a puppet of Putin are doing the same, they are meeting Putin's aim of ensuring their is no national unity in the U.S. and NATO to tackle the reemergence of Russia. Germany and NATO's response to Russia invasion of the Ukraine was laughable before Putin played Trump and his detractors equally for fools.

Brexit and Trump's unexpected political rise represent stumbling blocks in the way of globalisation and corporate power unseating national sovereignty. How this plays out in the future in Europe and the U.S. is a topic for another day.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 06:39 AM
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a reply to: Blarneystoner


You don't know a damn thing about me so stop pretending you do.

I can read your posts, and I can make generally accurate assumptions from those... unless you are saying your posts are not indicative of what you actually think.


Collusion is not diplomacy... it's treason.

Collusion is not even a crime. Please quote the statute that criminalizes collusion.

Then you get to show some proof that Trump is colluding with "du Russians"... something Robert Mueller has not done in almost a year and a half of unrestrained investigation, plus having access to the FBI's previous investigation into it. Then you get to explain why Trump allowed Russian sanctions, why he kicked Russian diplomats out of the US, why he bombed Russias's ally Syria, why he pulled out of the Iran Nuclear deal and offended another Russian ally, and why he is now defiant towards Iran.

Until you can show that... THERE IS NO COLLUSION. And don't forget you still need to find the statute for collusion to even be a crime, much less treason. Better get busy.

TheRedneck



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 06:54 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck


Collusion is not even a crime. Please quote the statute that criminalizes collusion.


"Collusion" is a polite word for "conspiracy to commit election fraud." Trump himself kept telling us the election was rigged.



posted on Jul, 25 2018 @ 09:52 AM
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originally posted by: xpert11
a reply to: Blarneystoner

The implementation of sanctions failed to stop Iran and North Korea's nuclear weapons programs. So it is no surprise that any sanctions imposed on Russia have had no effect on their invasion of the Ukraine. Putin likely welcomes sanctions, shortages of consumer goods helps to prepare the Russian people for wartime conditions.


What a load of horse hockey...

Did you forget what you wrote in the earlier response to me? Let me remind you.


Germany in a twist of historical irony is practicing the policy of appeasement, they have decided the Ukraine's fate is of little importance to the course of European affairs.


Are you backing off of your claim that "Ukraine's fate is of little importance"? Because I have shown you that claim was false. The fact is that Merkel was one of the most vocal proponents of Russian sanctions at the EU summit in Brussels, 2014.


Putin likely welcomes sanctions, shortages of consumer goods helps to prepare the Russian people for wartime conditions.


You don't honestly believe that line do you? Did you actually research that claim before puking up that hairball?

The sanctions had the anticipated effect of damaging Russia's economy. The Rouble's value fell drastically. Inflation rose dramatically and Russia's GDP experienced negative growth. I'm sure Putin was pleased as punch about that.... lol...


As Germany phrases out nuclear power, in all likelihood their energy dependency on Russia will only increase, so the anti nuclear political left are unwittingly playing into Putin's hands.


sigh.... Germany only relied on natural gas to generate 13 percent of its electric power in 2016. Germany's investment in renewable energy has increased and they expect to be producing as much as 80% of their energy needs from renewable sources by 2050.


Those who peddle the idea of Trump as a puppet of Putin are doing the same, they are meeting Putin's aim of ensuring their is no national unity in the U.S. and NATO to tackle the reemergence of Russia.


So... Trump sews discord among the member nations of NATO... but it's "those who peddle the idea of Trump as a puppet of Putin" that are playing into Putin's plan..... SMDH... good lord... so stupid.


Germany and NATO's response to Russia invasion of the Ukraine was laughable before Putin played Trump and his detractors equally for fools.


Said no one but delusional Trump supporters...

edit on 25-7-2018 by Blarneystoner because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-7-2018 by Blarneystoner because: (no reason given)



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