This is the deceitful news im tired of.

originally posted by: vonclod
Well, the media would not be effective if not for those that relish the divisive messages, both left wing idiots and right wing idiots eat it up..just idiots period.

Don't you find it interesting, though, that the extremist media has been able to transform the meanings of right and left?

In our lifetimes ... not more than a decade or so.

Authoritarians who crow about being nationalists claiming the supremacy of the state when a few months ago they were ready to overthrow a tyrant and bring revolution?

And they dont' bat an eye ...

a reply to: Gryphon66

It is puzzling , is the media that good at manipulating? or are people being intellectually dishonest simply so they can throw it in others faces..going "murica pew pew pew" as an example..whatever the hell that means

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: Gryphon66

It is puzzling , is the media that good at manipulating? or are people being intellectually dishonest simply so they can throw it in others faces..going "murica pew pew pew" as an example..whatever the hell that means

My opinion is that some folks really believe it. And I get that ... there's a fair amount of nuance in the distinctions between authoritarians and libertarians ... and revolutionaries.

All government is authoritarian, however, the left believes that authoritarianism fundamentally exists to provide for the rights and well being of individuals, whereas the right believes in government for governments sake, tradition, nationalism, ever increasing militarization, which means supporting the megacorporations, etc. etc.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Kharron
a reply to: xBWOMPx

I'm not seeing it that way. The article actually left me feeling that, even though they did some terrible things, she turned herself in, spoke only twice in 400 days and did not try to make excuses, said she was sorry and said she felt guilty she did not put a stop to it. What more can you ask for when the deed is already done.

It's too bad Hillary Clinton doesn't have the integrity to "come clean". It could help her be an acceptable Presidential candidate again.

LMFAO, you win comment of the night award, congratulations you 100 points awesomer!🤓

Yeah, nothing like a drive-by Hillary bashing in a thread about how Nazis aren't right-wing, eh?

Blah blah blah, i honestly dont care about feelings cuz thick skin thats why. Idc to argue tonight. I know a lot of you are not going to understand or get it, it'll fly over your heads and thats cool. But carewemust is on the same page, atleast some one does. MURICA PEW PEW PEW 🤓

Feelings? Who is talking about feelings?

Nothing you nor anything anyone else has said "flies over" anyone's heads. You're both hyper-nationalistic, which puts you both on the far right of the political spectrum as such things go.

So keep making those video games sounds, friend. That really identifies your level of thought.

You didnt read what i replied to did you. When you revert to name calling OOOOOR labeling then thats a tell tale sign feelings are getting disrupted. I can most certainly hear your aggressive typing and just to be clear i am far from right and far from left, i am none of the above, i dont drink the koolaid and i can see right through tptb and all of there factions and what they are trying to pull. Its a shame a lot of these conspiracy nuts on here cant see the truth because they are blinded by emotions. I do remember a time when a lot of people on here were on the same page. Its a sad day for humanity.

a reply to: Gryphon66

A fair assessment I think.
Sadly it's going to take some time for common ground to be found.

Im off to bed..cheers

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: Gryphon66

It is puzzling , is the media that good at manipulating? or are people being intellectually dishonest simply so they can throw it in others faces..going "murica pew pew pew" as an example..whatever the hell that means

My opinion is that some folks really believe it. And I get that ... there's a fair amount of nuance in the distinctions between authoritarians and libertarians ... and revolutionaries.

All government is authoritarian, however, the left believes that authoritarianism fundamentally exists to provide for the rights and well being of individuals, whereas the right believes in government for governments sake, tradition, nationalism, ever increasing militarization, which means supporting the megacorporations, etc. etc.

You are horribly mistaken but im sure your bubble is strong so stay in your safe place

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: xBWOMPx

You really can't compare the US and Europe on politics. From the US perspective Nazis would be left from a European point of view they are right wing. For Example, Bernie Sanders is considered far left in the US but in Europe, he is a centrist. This was caused by the United States rejecting European values after independence. And the first Americans tended to be people fleeing religious persecution. They tended to be groups like the Amish who believed in gods law. So early on the right was established in the US off strict moral standards based on the bible. You can't really place Nazis into US politics they just dont fit well on either side. just realize Nazis did not like communists and considered them an enemy.

US politics is so toxic, the animosity and division between left and right is unique to America and to anyone outside looking in its just senseless and intensely destructive. The conservative party in Australia is called the Liberal party lol(both major parties are far more centrist than the extremist far left/right US politicians) and generally things get done because both sides are sane enough to negotiate and find common ground.

Aussies have always been pretty cognizant of rejecting US style influences, whether it be social or political. That's not to say we don't like our American mates, we've always had their back and always will! I think because we're descended from convicts and have a common history we've always been on the same side overall and we appreciate just how good life is here.

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: Gryphon66

It is puzzling , is the media that good at manipulating? or are people being intellectually dishonest simply so they can throw it in others faces..going "murica pew pew pew" as an example..whatever the hell that means

My opinion is that some folks really believe it. And I get that ... there's a fair amount of nuance in the distinctions between authoritarians and libertarians ... and revolutionaries.

All government is authoritarian, however, the left believes that authoritarianism fundamentally exists to provide for the rights and well being of individuals, whereas the right believes in government for governments sake, tradition, nationalism, ever increasing militarization, which means supporting the megacorporations, etc. etc.

You are horribly mistaken but im sure your bubble is strong so stay in your safe place

Lacking the motivation for a more complete response, I'll just reply "Right back at cha."

a reply to: xBWOMPx

I didn't call you a name or label you. I stated a description of your words based on your words. I would counter that trying to write everything off to "da feels" is just a way of avoiding the argument. I didn't express any emotion either way. Your statements demonstrate that your posts come from a nationalistic standpoint, and nationalism is more a characteristic of right than left-wing politics. If anyone is having an "emotional reaction" that would be you.

I accept that you believe you are neither "right nor left." I myself don't see myself as fitting into such simplistic categories, and I think most of us don't.

I do apologize for categorizing you as a person on the basis of what you've written in ATS posts. That doesn't change the facts of what terms mean.

originally posted by: xBWOMPx
in reality people who know real history nazis have ALWAYS been a socialist

Nazi is literally short for national socialism.
National Socialist German Workers' Party = Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei

originally posted by: trollz

originally posted by: xBWOMPx
in reality people who know real history nazis have ALWAYS been a socialist

Nazi is literally short for national socialism.
National Socialist German Workers' Party = Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei

Yep. And Hitler and Goebbels are both on the record as saying that "their socialism" was not Marxist but rather was special attention directed toward the volk or the German people and their traditions.

They were hypernationalists and firmly right-wing. True Marxist socialism/communism has never been attempted because it is an idealistic system much like the imaginary "free market."

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Kharron
a reply to: xBWOMPx

I'm not seeing it that way. The article actually left me feeling that, even though they did some terrible things, she turned herself in, spoke only twice in 400 days and did not try to make excuses, said she was sorry and said she felt guilty she did not put a stop to it. What more can you ask for when the deed is already done.

It's too bad Hillary Clinton doesn't have the integrity to "come clean". It could help her be an acceptable Presidential candidate again.

Waaaahhh what about Hillary? Is that seriously your response to a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with Hillary Clinton? Jesus ATS, when are the grown ups returning?

I propose a simple distinction:

Right wing means you want to control what other people do.

Left wing means you live and let live.

originally posted by: xBWOMPx
So, anyway, to me it makes it sound like "See, far right extremist conservatives are nazis" but in reality people who know real history nazis have ALWAYS been a socialist. During WWII nazis were far right back then ONLY because there fellow counter part were communist.

Um... Nazis came to power shortly before WWII. How can you say they've always been socialist then excuse them NOT being socialist during the one war that impacted the whole world that featured them? You are being contradictory here.

Though regardless, your argument is wrong. Just having the name "socialist" in your name doesn't make you socialist. The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is nether a democracy nor a republic.

It really baffles me why right leaning people are so intent on disavowing the dark side of their ideology.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Only place I have seen “pure socialism” work was in Star Trek. And even then there was lots of dissension like Kirk’s son on the Genesis Project saying how the military swoops in to weaponize scientific discovery and the Marquee separatists fighting the ideals of the Federation.

Oddly enough the Ferengi were a Capitalistic society that operated on strict controls that somewhat mirror Feudalism then later introduced Progressivism. While a comedic foil and taken to extremes, they mirror the entire 20th Century America pretty much.

originally posted by: xBWOMPx
So, anyway, to me it makes it sound like "See, far right extremist conservatives are nazis" but in reality people who know real history nazis have ALWAYS been a socialist. During WWII nazis were far right back then ONLY because there fellow counter part were communist.

No, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what right and left mean.

Nazis were in Germany; Left and Right originated in Europe during the lead up to the French Revolution:
Right believes in supremacy of the state.
Left believes in supremacy of the individual (e: maybe 'the people' would be a better way to think of it).

As for Nazis, do you think the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (also known as North Korea) is a democracy, a republic, or even the people's?

A saying after WW2 was probably something you've heard before:

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

See how that this starts with 'Then' implying something came first? Well, here's the rest:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Kind of funny how we hear the last two bits, but not so much the first two, eh?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: xBWOMPx
So, anyway, to me it makes it sound like "See, far right extremist conservatives are nazis" but in reality people who know real history nazis have ALWAYS been a socialist. During WWII nazis were far right back then ONLY because there fellow counter part were communist.

Um... Nazis came to power shortly before WWII. How can you say they've always been socialist then excuse them NOT being socialist during the one war that impacted the whole world that featured them? You are being contradictory here.

Though regardless, your argument is wrong. Just having the name "socialist" in your name doesn't make you socialist. The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is nether a democracy nor a republic.

It really baffles me why right leaning people are so intent on disavowing the dark side of their ideology.

I never said they were NOT socialist and yes, they were socialist.

originally posted by: Ahabstar
a reply to: Gryphon66

Only place I have seen “pure socialism” work was in Star Trek. And even then there was lots of dissension like Kirk’s son on the Genesis Project saying how the military swoops in to weaponize scientific discovery and the Marquee separatists fighting the ideals of the Federation.

Oddly enough the Ferengi were a Capitalistic society that operated on strict controls that somewhat mirror Feudalism then later introduced Progressivism. While a comedic foil and taken to extremes, they mirror the entire 20th Century America pretty much.

Indeed.

The economics of the future is somewhat different. You see, money doesn’t exist in the 24th century. The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity.

Captian Jean-Luc Picard

I like Jean-Luc fine ... but that's just a load of hooey.

TANSTAAFL

originally posted by: Greven

originally posted by: xBWOMPx
So, anyway, to me it makes it sound like "See, far right extremist conservatives are nazis" but in reality people who know real history nazis have ALWAYS been a socialist. During WWII nazis were far right back then ONLY because there fellow counter part were communist.

No, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what right and left mean.

Nazis were in Germany; Left and Right originated in Europe during the lead up to the French Revolution:
Right believes in supremacy of the state.
Left believes in supremacy of the individual (e: maybe 'the people' would be a better way to think of it).

As for Nazis, do you think the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (also known as North Korea) is a democracy, a republic, or even the people's?

A saying after WW2 was probably something you've heard before:

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

See how that this starts with 'Then' implying something came first? Well, here's the rest:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Kind of funny how we hear the last two bits, but not so much the first two, eh?

Left and right in europe had different meaning and at different times. Socialism is never about supremacy of the individual. How is that even possible when socialism has always turned into the government micro managing every aspect of your life? You are horribly confused.

originally posted by: Ahabstar
a reply to: Gryphon66

Only place I have seen “pure socialism” work was in Star Trek. And even then there was lots of dissension like Kirk’s son on the Genesis Project saying how the military swoops in to weaponize scientific discovery and the Marquee separatists fighting the ideals of the Federation.

Oddly enough the Ferengi were a Capitalistic society that operated on strict controls that somewhat mirror Feudalism then later introduced Progressivism. While a comedic foil and taken to extremes, they mirror the entire 20th Century America pretty much.

I agree, ive always said socialism will never work unless we get rid of big government, military, and money, just like star wars. But that'll never happen with out a fight.