NFLPA files grievance against NFL's anthem policy

a reply to: TinySickTears

Its forcing them into a display of respect, whether they feel respectful or not. We've talked this out before, you and I. The act of standing shows respect... doesn't matter whether you feel it or not, it's being shown. Man cannot read the hearts of others, so the idea of expecting them to *feel* respect is pointless. Same holds true in a court of law. Participants in a case are demanded to SHOW respect towards the judge. Does anyone really believe a defendant or lawyer who just lost a case really thinks of the judge as a figure of honor? Yet they call him "your honor" or are found in contempt of court. Ever try to wear a ballcap inside in high school? Did you continue the practice of removing your cap after you graduated, or are you like 99% of the rest of us and wear your cap wherever you're at now that you don't have a teacher trying to force a show of respect to a damn building by offing the cap when you enter? When someone says "thank you" to you, do you respond with "you're welcome" or some other pleasantry? Are you feeling respectful when you do it, or is it an absent minded platitude that comes out basically without thinking about it... aka a hollow "showing" of respect?

Life is filled with situations where one is expected to STFU and do what they're expected to do. Millionaires who can run fast, catch well, and throw hard shouldn't be an exception to that. They can know their damn role, stand in respect for the anthem, or watch their little league decline in revenue alongside their potential future earnings as folks who are tired of the prima donna little ballplayers stop watching their product.

originally posted by: TinySickTears
also from the same link

Tom E. Curran of Comcast Sportsnet New England reported in a story published on 29 August 2016 that teams standing together on the field during the playing of the national anthem was a relatively recent development in NFL history: “NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy confirmed this the practice began in 2009, adding, ‘As you know, the NFL has a long tradition of patriotism. Players are encouraged but not required to stand for the anthem.'”

so just like i said......

I denied all that with one little link
As far as I can remember , no player has refused to stand , salute the flag during the National Anthem . There have been injured players that could not stand for the Anthem . Yet they still acknowledged the flag and the anthem.

In history that I can remember , there has only been one protest on a football field .
"The marching band refused to yield
Do you recall what was the field ?
The day the music died"
Don McClean - American Pie.
I do...

This started from one failing quarterback for the 49ers who managed to take them from 1st to worst trying to draw national attention to himself as he knew his days with S.F. were numbered.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: TinySickTears

Its forcing them into a display of respect, whether they feel respectful or not. We've talked this out before, you and I. The act of standing shows respect...

i see where you are coming from but i just dont agree

seems like an empty gesture and i dont fully get why people want an empty gesture. i see your end but i dont understand it.

on my end if it is not genuine then dont do it

originally posted by: Gothmog

I denied all that with one little link

no you didnt and clearly you didnt read the link you posted. i did. i posted from it.
it backs up what i said

they used to stand on sunday and they were encouraged but not forced.

that is the fact

the government paying them is the falsehood

so before 09 they did not HAVE to. from your link that you didnt read

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: TinySickTears

Its forcing them into a display of respect, whether they feel respectful or not. We've talked this out before, you and I. The act of standing shows respect...

i see where you are coming from but i just dont agree

seems like an empty gesture and i dont fully get why people want an empty gesture. i see your end but i dont understand it.

on my end if it is not genuine then dont do it

That works in interpersonal communication levels, but would equate to utter chaos on the institutional levels and the NFL is an institution of American culture and entertainment. In other words, the fans pay the salaries so the fans' expectations and demands must be considered heavily in all decisions on and off the field. This is why the league now has an off the field conduct clause in the CBA. Ray Rice smacking his woman around had nothing whatsoever to do with his job performance or his professional life in any way... but look how fast public opinion left him jobless.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6


That works in interpersonal communication levels, but would equate to utter chaos on the institutional levels and the NFL is an institution of American culture and entertainment. In other words, the fans pay the salaries so the fans' expectations and demands must be considered heavily in all decisions on and off the field. This is why the league now has an off the field conduct clause in the CBA. Ray Rice smacking his woman around had nothing whatsoever to do with his job performance or his professional life in any way... but look how fast public opinion left him jobless.

i cant argue that

im not even arguing that they shouldnt or the nfl is wrong for making them
i could give a #

i am interested in the fact that people want the display even if it is not genuine.
interested in that they want it and why they want it even if it is forced.

thats my end of it

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: burdman30ott6


That works in interpersonal communication levels, but would equate to utter chaos on the institutional levels and the NFL is an institution of American culture and entertainment. In other words, the fans pay the salaries so the fans' expectations and demands must be considered heavily in all decisions on and off the field. This is why the league now has an off the field conduct clause in the CBA. Ray Rice smacking his woman around had nothing whatsoever to do with his job performance or his professional life in any way... but look how fast public opinion left him jobless.

i cant argue that

im not even arguing that they shouldnt or the nfl is wrong for making them
i could give a #

i am interested in the fact that people want the display even if it is not genuine.
interested in that they want it and why they want it even if it is forced.

thats my end of it

Why do movie fans want to see Iron Man in full CGI instead of just watching the movie follow Robert Downey Jr in a motion cap suit? Most people aren't watching football to be reminded of the bullsnip happening in the country or in the world. They're watching it as an escape. Starting the game out with a millionaire jackass whining about police brutality, kneeling during the anthem when all else are standing, and picking at his little pigs in cop uniform socks isn't an escape from the world for fans, it's a reminder that "Wow, not only does the world suck, but some folks are pretty GD stupid!" ...not entertaining, not an escape, why not just watch 3 hours of Headline News if that's what the NFL is going to become. It's a sport field, not a platform for social commentary.

People want to be lied to sometimes. If your wife puts on a dress she likes and asks you "Does this make my ass look big" she's not looking for you to say "Damn, it's like two Christmas hams under a tablecloth, woman!" she's looking for you to either say "Damn, get that over here!" or lie to her and say "Not at all, dear, you look amazing." (depending on your particular tastes in backsides... In my house the ass is preferably looking fairly fat, but that's a personal preference.)

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
Most people aren't watching football to be reminded of the bullsnip happening in the country or in the world. They're watching it as an escape.
It's a sport field, not a platform for social commentary.

)

so wouldnt it make more sense to not have the players stand at all?
better yet why even play the anthem at a sports game?

its a game. an escape. a place for sports.
seems like the anthem and standing and the display has no place

originally posted by: notsure1
a reply to: intrepid

God the cry babies are insane..

Who the hell does not want to stand for the anthem that bad?

Just stand the F%%% up...

Forced Patriotism.

So American.

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
Most people aren't watching football to be reminded of the bullsnip happening in the country or in the world. They're watching it as an escape.
It's a sport field, not a platform for social commentary.

)

so wouldnt it make more sense to not have the players stand at all?
better yet why even play the anthem at a sports game?

its a game. an escape. a place for sports.
seems like the anthem and standing and the display has no place

I agree and disagree. I agree with the essence of what you're saying, but I also see the anthem as being fairly important during times of war and strife, simply as a nod to America's troops of "Yeah, we're going to forget about all the nasty crap you can't afford to forget about for a few hours, but our hearts are with you. Let's take 2 minutes to honor you, your sacrifices, and remember this is just a damn game, then play ball." I don't see the anthem as the problem. I especially don't see anything wrong with demanding multimillionaires take the briefest of moments to publicly nod to the system which allowed them to become wealthier than 99.9% of those watching them play by simply playing a damn game and being very good at it.

a reply to: TinySickTears

Because none of them were being actively disrespectful.

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: TinySickTears

Its forcing them into a display of respect, whether they feel respectful or not. We've talked this out before, you and I. The act of standing shows respect...

i see where you are coming from but i just dont agree

seems like an empty gesture and i dont fully get why people want an empty gesture. i see your end but i dont understand it.

on my end if it is not genuine then dont do it

I agree. But understand there will be consequences to actions.

a reply to: Annee

Do they have a gun to their head?

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
Most people aren't watching football to be reminded of the bullsnip happening in the country or in the world. They're watching it as an escape.
It's a sport field, not a platform for social commentary.

)

so wouldnt it make more sense to not have the players stand at all?
better yet why even play the anthem at a sports game?

its a game. an escape. a place for sports.
seems like the anthem and standing and the display has no place

As I understand it, the patriotism at sports events was a military recruitment propaganda program -- paid for by the military to NFL owners.

Prior to this, players remained in the locker room til game time.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Annee

Do they have a gun to their head?

Define "gun".

Forced patriotism or BANG -- you're fired.

a reply to: Annee

So what happens at your job when you protest while you are on the clock?

If I go to work and protest and make political statements I get fired too. Are you saying I have a gun to my head?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
Most people aren't watching football to be reminded of the bullsnip happening in the country or in the world. They're watching it as an escape.
It's a sport field, not a platform for social commentary.

)

so wouldnt it make more sense to not have the players stand at all?
better yet why even play the anthem at a sports game?

its a game. an escape. a place for sports.
seems like the anthem and standing and the display has no place

As I understand it, the patriotism at sports events was a military recruitment propaganda program -- paid for by the military to NFL owners.

Prior to this, players remained in the locker room til game time.

Then as you understand it is wrong. Players were regularly out on the field for the national Anthem they just were not required to do it. Almost every game every single player was on the sidelines in respect. There is zero evidence of it being a propaganda tool, paid or otherwise.

You have been taken in by Facebook fake news.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
Most people aren't watching football to be reminded of the bullsnip happening in the country or in the world. They're watching it as an escape.
It's a sport field, not a platform for social commentary.

)

so wouldnt it make more sense to not have the players stand at all?
better yet why even play the anthem at a sports game?

its a game. an escape. a place for sports.
seems like the anthem and standing and the display has no place

As I understand it, the patriotism at sports events was a military recruitment propaganda program -- paid for by the military to NFL owners.

Prior to this, players remained in the locker room til game time.

Then as you understand it is wrong. Players were regularly out on the field for the national Anthem they just were not required to do it. Almost every game every single player was on the sidelines in respect. There is zero evidence of it being a propaganda tool, paid or otherwise.

You have been taken in by Facebook fake news.

I understand forced and not forced.

AKA -- required -- not required.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Annee

So what happens at your job when you protest while you are on the clock?

If I go to work and protest and make political statements I get fired too. Are you saying I have a gun to my head?

I've never had a job where I was forced to be patriotic.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Annee

So what happens at your job when you protest while you are on the clock?

If I go to work and protest and make political statements I get fired too. Are you saying I have a gun to my head?

I've never had a job where I was forced to be patriotic.

I like how you did not answer the question. What would happen to you if you went to work on the clock and decided to engage in political activism while at work on the clock? I would be fired.

If they do not like their job and the commitments they have to keep the should look for a new job. No one is forcing them to do anything. They actually won't even be fired!!! I would be.