AP FACT CHECK: Trump’s bottom-line stats on trade are wrong

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Kharron

I was agreeing with you lol.

I know. Maybe I sound too confrontational in my posts, in real life my demeanor and voice is so laid back, it cannot be confused. Maybe I need to watch how I word things on the internet.

I gave you that star, I knew what you meant.

Thanks for reading.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: highvein

No they were from situations where an additional crime was committed..

Oh so now it takes an additional crime in order for it to happen. And post your proof please.

originally posted by: highvein

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: highvein

No they were from situations where an additional crime was committed..

Oh so now it takes an additional crime in order for it to happen. And post your proof please.

Please don't derail this.

The fact check you are discussing says that the vast increase in separations is due to the policies of this administration, that dictate every person be prosecuted. The last administration did not have that policy. The President then blamed the laws that do not exist on having to separate the children, failing to mention his own zero tolerance policy that created the situation in the first place.

This does not have anything to do with how many crimes it took to get separated under Obama, and has everything to do that it only takes one with Trump. Zero tolerance.

a reply to: Kharron

The fact check you are discussing says that the vast increase in separations is due to the policies of this administration,

The policy was already there. The vast increase in separations is because ice, HLS, and the border patrol are now allowed to do their job. Simple math.

This does not have anything to do with how many crimes it took to get separated under Obama, and has everything to do that it only takes one with Trump. Zero tolerance.

That is because he takes the border situation seriously. Not like past administrations. In fact, it was one of the things that got him elected President. As I have said before, just something the never Trumpers want to complain about.

ETA. I wasn't the one derailing your thread. I simply asked for proof of another posters post. But nice try to single me out.

a reply to: Kharron

And the economy has seen many periods of stronger growth.
---
In the 1990s boom, still the longest on record, the U.S. economy expanded at an average annual pace of 4.3 percent for five years, from 1996 through 2000.

I don't recall Trump saying the economy is growing faster than ever before... also the 90's was the era of digital technology and the start of the internet era, I very much doubt we'll ever see such rapid progression ever again. These people must really enjoy finding out how Trump was slightly wrong on some of his numbers or estimations. This is not pointing out lies, it's pure pessimism.

a reply to: Kharron

Yea so much is assumed when reading text with no tone or facial expressions lol..

a reply to: highvein

No THEN during Obama’s it took an additional crime before they actually charged the parents..

Probably because they knew it would be crazy expensive and add crazy liability to house the whole family or separate them..

Right Now trump started a zero tolerance policy that says EVERY person caught here illegally will be prosecuted..

When people are prosecuted they jail you.
Whe. You are jailed they don’t let your kids come to jail with you...



I’m not wasting my my time sourcing it as it is common knowledge that you can easily check anywhere..

If I did waste my time sourcing it you would probably ignore it anyway..


If I was making some obscure claim I would source it.. this is not an obscure claim..


This is common knowledge to anyone who keeps up.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: highvein

No THEN during Obama’s it took an additional crime before they actually charged the parents..

Probably because they knew it would be crazy expensive and add crazy liability to house the whole family or separate them..

Right Now trump started a zero tolerance policy that says EVERY person caught here illegally will be prosecuted..

When people are prosecuted they jail you.
Whe. You are jailed they don’t let your kids come to jail with you...



I’m not wasting my my time sourcing it as it is common knowledge that you can easily check anywhere..

If I did waste my time sourcing it you would probably ignore it anyway..


If I was making some obscure claim I would source it.. this is not an obscure claim..


This is common knowledge to anyone who keeps up.

So since Trump is serious about it, like he said he was during the while running for office. The other kicked the problem down the road. Now it has to be solved. Sorry you guys don't seem to like the way he is solving it, but he is the President. The policy of separating the children was already in place. Sessions was just enforcing it. Now Trump wrote an EO to appease the people saying it's wrong. So.....Still not good enough?

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: Kharron

I'm good at legal research, sure.

I've cultivated a good ability to apply that skill to other parts of life, yes.

But I have a life that doesn't revolve around the AP and constantly fact-checking fact checkers.

I politely decline your invitation, and in turn invite the AP to provide better proof to back up their claims better.

Best regard...I'm off to live life away from the computer.

Why not take him up on his challenge? Not one person in this thread can debunk any of it. Instead making circular arguments stating AP should prove themselves. Maybe they should, but if you are so convinced they are wrong, why not take a small portion of your day to prove it? Why doesn't anyone?

I'm enjoying this, bravo OP! I too find AP to be one of the last few unbiased rags about. Rarely do I read a story with any perceivable bias, and it's refreshing in today's world of CNN progressive liberalism and FOXs staunch conservativism.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: Kharron

And the economy has seen many periods of stronger growth.
---
In the 1990s boom, still the longest on record, the U.S. economy expanded at an average annual pace of 4.3 percent for five years, from 1996 through 2000.

I don't recall Trump saying the economy is growing faster than ever before... also the 90's was the era of digital technology and the start of the internet era, I very much doubt we'll ever see such rapid progression ever again. These people must really enjoy finding out how Trump was slightly wrong on some of his numbers or estimations. This is not pointing out lies, it's pure pessimism.

Uh, what?

mobile.twitter.com...

Seems pretty clear to me. 'Best economy and jobs ever!'.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Thejoncrichton

That’s because other presidents used prosecutorial discretion to choose not to prosecute those with children..

I assume just as much for the added cost/liability of dealing with children as much as the obvious political firestorm it would cause..

So yea since trump changed the policy and these are the ramifications.. obviously it is trump’s fault.

According to your own statement, Trump did not change the policy. Other presidents and their "discretion" changed the policy. It's like saying stealing is a crime, but since you needed money previous authorities had let you go with a warning. Now someone is being a big jerk and changing policy because you're going to prison? Lol. Clown.

a reply to: Kharron

I got to talking about this with a friend and concluded that this is classic Trump. Maybe he is right or maybe not, but it doesnt matter because he is a genius.

Just like when he quoted numbers on immigration it was proven false by the AP. They made a huge deal about him doubling the actual number. CNN ran this story for days on end in every program. Let me rephrase that so you can truly see what he does; Trump got CNN to run days of news cycles telling the public the correct number which even at half of what Trump said was still an outrageous number.

a reply to: highvein

BWAHAHAHA

So please tell me how spending 10xs the amount so we can prosecute the parents is fixing the problem lol????

You think serving 2 months in jail before shipping the back will make them stay away???


Lol the fix has ALWAYS been to make it unprofitable to employ them..

Always..

Charge a 20k fine for every illegal you employ and the problem fixes itself tomorrow.

No need for jailing anyone except actual criminals that are a danger to society at large.

The corporations and lobbiests that run trump and the gop don’t want to lose the cheap labor..

a reply to: bender151

The policy used by previous presidents was already established.

Trump decided to change that policy and focus on a zero tolerance policy..

I don’t know how you get “trump didn’t change the policy “ from that lol..

If obama decided not to prosecute states with legal marijuana, and trump decides to change that policy and prosecute them..

Trump changed the policy lol..

If you want to defend him argue that it is a legit deterrent.. or the money housing the whole family is worth it some how..

Don’t use BS semantics to deflect..

originally posted by: drewlander
a reply to: Kharron

I got to talking about this with a friend and concluded that this is classic Trump. Maybe he is right or maybe not, but it doesnt matter because he is a genius.

Just like when he quoted numbers on immigration it was proven false by the AP. They made a huge deal about him doubling the actual number. CNN ran this story for days on end in every program. Let me rephrase that so you can truly see what he does; Trump got CNN to run days of news cycles telling the public the correct number which even at half of what Trump said was still an outrageous number.

That could be true, although it would be very Machiavellian of him. But that should be a topic for another thread, albeit a good one.

First we should determine and agree on who may be lying to us and who may not; then the motives. Most people don't even think they're being lied to.

a reply to: Kharron

Your a very naive person. Both sides lie by only focusing on what they want you to hear. For example AP lies when they said the president lied,No where does Trump make the statement goods and services. So AP claims Trump lied because he didnt provide the information they wanted him to.

Then Trump clearly lied because he didnt count total trade deficits when shipping had always been a major service by the US and should be included in trade numbers.

We can go on Trump didnt make the laws he is simply enforcing them as president he cant make new laws AP is lying.

Trump is Lying since choosing to enforce the law with strict zero tolerance removes the ability for border patrol to make judgement calls all police officers make every day on the streets.

Bottom line both sides are lying to you that's politics. They are only going to give you the information they want you to hear. And keep in mind their is always more to the story. And i suggest instead of being marred down in subjective topics you just might want to get back to talking about the issues. For example the trade deficits do exist inflated or not. And we have families risking their lives based off stupid policies again something needs to be done.

originally posted by: nightbringr
Why not take him up on his challenge?

I'll quote myself since I was quite clear in my reasoning:

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: Kharron

But I have a life that doesn't revolve around the AP and constantly fact-checking fact checkers.

I politely decline your invitation, and in turn invite the AP to provide better proof to back up their claims better.

Best regard...I'm off to live life away from the computer.

Do I really need to expand on that?

Not one person in this thread can debunk any of it. Instead making circular arguments stating AP should prove themselves. Maybe they should, but if you are so convinced they are wrong, why not take a small portion of your day to prove it? Why doesn't anyone?

Re-read what I've been saying--I never once said that AP was wrong, I just said that they should prove their points with links to raw data and citations of sources of their claims. That is not the same thing as being convinced that they are wrong.

In fact, I literally said this in an earlier comment (added emphasis to make a point):

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I feel like I need to throw this caveat in--I'm not saying that Trump is right and the AP is wrong, I just find it high-larious when people take someone (or an organization) at their word when they are telling you that you can't take someone at their word (and then they don't prove why with any links to data).

The reason that I felt a need to add that caveat early on in the thread is for people like you, who will make assumptions because you're not actually reading what I write and instead are reading INTO what I'm writing based on a subjective interpretation.

There is nothing "circular" about expecting a fact-checking organization to provide links or proof for their claims that someone is lying--in fact, in a debate (which fact-checking comes across as being a loose form of one), if you counter someone's claim, the onus lies on you to prove that they're wrong.

The AP isn't doing that, and they should. Whether or not you agree with that sentiment is irrelevant to my consistent argument in this thread. Characterize it how you will, but I'm not going to spend hours fact-checking a fact-checking website, as I have better things to do with my life.

Best regards.

Interesting thing about facts...

No matter how much you argue them, they're right and you are wrong.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Say what you will, but i for one do find AP to be remarkably lacking in bias, especially compared to the likes of CNN, FOX, BBC, MSNBC, Reuters and their ilk.

Who knows, maybe they purposefully skew their data. I just figured if you feel so strongly about this you might enjoy a chance to prove that yes, they ARE biased or use faulty data.

I find it very interesting they have such a transparent and easy to use way to report errors or flaws. I really wish someone did catch something so we could report and see if it is followed up on.

originally posted by: nightbringr
a reply to: SlapMonkey

I just figured if you feel so strongly about this you might enjoy a chance to prove that yes, they ARE biased or use faulty data.

I'll possibly do that one day on something that I know off the top of my head to be wrong, but I'm not interested in researching everything that they claim to be false just in the hopes to prove them wrong--that's not really my personality.