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JFK, 9-11, and the Real America: Tying it All Together

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posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 10:26 PM
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I think this is a must read for anyone interested in American Government conspiracies. if only the world new it. oh well that just my opinion. In my laymen view it fits, below is just a snip of the whole article


JFK, 9-11, and the REAL America: Tying it All Together

An organic reconsideration of US history and major "conspiracy theories" of the past 40 years, including those pertaining to the 9-11 attack, and how they shed light on America's present drift into fascism.

by Jon Phalen
November 22, 2003

Hijackers?

What makes you think you actually KNOW what happened on those planes? All four were obliterated, along with everyone on board, remember? No crime scene, no direct evidence, no recognizable remains, no witnesses whatsoever -- it's a blank canvas. How convenient for any party intent on launching a new era of global imperialism, and willing to spin this tragedy into a viable excuse. Indeed, all of the attacks consequences are far better explained by this agenda than by Bin Laden's purported death wish. Those presuming to examine this matter, i.e. ALL OF US, need to recognize that such trickery is a timeless specialty of governments.

And yet from that very day we have allowed the government-media complex to focus all attention on one rather thin explanation: Crazy Arabs did it! George W. Bush and his cabinet have made it known to us, in the most arrogant terms, that they will brook no discussion of other possibilities -- an edict most Americans, in their desperation to believe in this man, seem to have embraced. The Bush Administration even withholds its "proof" of Al Qa'eda's guilt; clearly, it considers mere citizens too unimportant to require full explanations, and once again, we're just rolling over and taking it.

The phrases 'spiritually broken' and 'morally adrift' come to mind...

Until the full case against Al Qa'eda is made available for public review, we have absolutely no assurance that this "proof" isn't exactly like the "proof" of Iraq's weapons programs -- i.e., a big fat lie from top to bottom. On these terms, wholesale acceptance of the hijacker scenario will continue to be what it has always been: a pathetic display of blind faith in this administration's utterances, and in those of its media accomplices. At present, it is astonishing that anyone places faith of any kind in either party: by means of the "WMD" debacle, both have proven themselves amoral, duplicitous, and utterly devoid of humanity. Indeed, why do we give them so much as a moment of our attention? No one with a lick of sense would do this.

A rigorous civilian investigation of 9-11 would help resolve such doubts. If Bush and the rest were standing on firm ground, they would fully support such a thing. Instead, they have worked to thwart both its formation and its progress, using every resource within their reach. Some time last year, they seem to have realized they were only fueling suspicions this way, so Bush grudgingly approved an "independent" investigation. The arrogance of this bunch is so disabling, however, that they actually damaged their credibility even further by naming Henry Kissinger to lead it. This is a man whose dedication to "US interests" verges on homicidal psychosis (see his treatment of Cambodians 1970, Chileans 1973, East Timorese and Kurds 1975, MUCH more). He could only be expected to skew this investigation accordingly, i. e., to omit and cover up any issue not conducive to empire building. Ironically, even Henry had the sense to admit he was an inappropriate choice, thus resigning from this duty, whereupon Bush immediately returned to his original tactic of stonewalling (1). Could the man possibly have something to hide?

To appreciate the ugliest possibilities of the 9-11 attack, one must first become aware of the continuous practice of such manipulations by the entire progression of American politicians. The need to cultivate this awareness is itself an enigma: if you have the honesty to see this pattern at all, its full enormity, emerging over time, will at some point cause your previous ignorance to amaze you. Imagine living your entire life with an 800-pound gorilla, then realizing one day it's not a sofa, after all. At the same time, finding this enlightenment is challenging, because the relevant facts are usually withheld from the public for decades, seldom appearing in mainstream discourse even after they become common knowledge -- not because of some grand conspiracy, but because legions of 'America Firsters,' including most of the famous and powerful, simply don't want to hear it. The telling of these facts is an affront to their most cherished political assumptions. Invariably, they respond with hostile apologetics, ranging from simple denial and ridicule to the claim that such incidents are random and unrelated "mistakes." That they can sincerely believe this 'unrelated' claim is remarkable, given the way it crushes into dust under any burden of historical proof: America's state crimes have been ethically monstrous, vast in both scale and number, unilateral in their aggression, virtually uninterrupted in their chronology, and very coherent in both motive and method. Certain themes just keep popping up: Read more of this interesting article





[edit on 20/2/2005 by Sauron]

[edit on 22-2-2005 by John bull 1]




posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 10:35 PM
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There where several cell phone calls that came from the flights where direct evidence was derived and further more these calls came from more than one plane and supported the reports of others who couldnt be seen or heard

So there is some evidence as to the method of control used the nationality is questionable but the number of suspects is in my opinion pretty close to right on , but the nationality issue was mute when a nationality and infact a belief system stood up in the face of impending danger of being attacked and said yes our people did it .

There is evidence all be it not as much as we have been led to believe IE some of those who where thought on the flights turned up alive and well and other countries, while they may have helped in logistics, and training they where not on the plain. The point is there is not enough but there is some evidence.



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 12:03 AM
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As an American I can assure you that no one is more well aware of what our government is up to. No one is more critical than ourselves when it comes to our government. I read this article and found it to be long winded drivel. How is it this "conspiracy" has been able to continue over such a long period of time? Do you think the people in control have such a long term agenda? They are simply out to make money. This is the reason for every insident that is mentioned. We know our government has been highjacked since WW2, and I assure you the average American is not benefiting from it. We are losing jobs, and health care is skyrocketing. I feel this country is not what was intended to be. But I ask you, if you were in our shoes, what would you do?

It is easy to view 9/11 as a coverup for the USA to get what it wants, but if it happened to you, you might feel different.



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 12:48 AM
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Rwatkins;

I appreciate you reading the article as well as your comments, me posting this article is doing something about it. If I lived in the states I would be out protesting for change with the others who do, as I live in Canada I go to protest here, I send emails to my political representatives all the time, I have even gotten some answers in return. I know it’s not much.

However, to know and do nothing would make me as guilty as these criminals. I distribute articles to bus stations, police stations, politicians, and bars anywhere I go, if I have printed material with me in my car I leave it for people to read it’s just to make people think, to look outside the box.

A lot of people used to think I was nuts, but now people know what I do and when they see me they come up to me with questions about things they have read or been told and in some cases with news that they think is pertinent to me. I try to raise the awareness in people to what our governments are getting up to. If I get one person to question the status quo I feel I have done something small as it may be.


[edit on 21/2/2005 by Sauron]



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 12:57 AM
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Originally posted by Sauron


What makes you think you actually KNOW what happened on those planes? All four were obliterated, along with everyone on board, remember? No crime scene, no direct evidence, no recognizable remains, no witnesses whatsoever -- it's a blank canvas. How convenient for any party intent on launching a new era of global imperialism, and willing to spin this tragedy into a viable excuse. Indeed, all of the attacks consequences are far better explained by this agenda than by Bin Laden's purported death wish. Those presuming to examine this matter, i.e. ALL OF US, need to recognize that such trickery is a timeless specialty of governments.


[edit on 20/2/2005 by Sauron]


Well lets see there is a terrorist suicide attack on the Twin Towers. Hey its not the first time Terrorist tried to take down the Towers. Who was behind it last time?

Hey it was arab terrorist so lets check the flight list Hmm.. Mohamed Atta a person with known ties to OBL a known Terrorist. Well thats hard to figure out now aint it.

And please dont start with that a '' a list of 20 terrorist came out hours after the attack" like people in your other 9-11 thread had to make up. The full list came out on 9-14-01.

[edit on 21-2-2005 by ShadowXIX]



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 01:14 AM
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Yea, because if it was the US or some other government, they'd be sure not to cover their tracks when killing 3000 people. I think the point is, its possible anything happened on those planes, we don't know. All we know is that according to the US, there is a probable chance it was committed by Arab terrorists. That is the extent of the certainty.



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 01:15 AM
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may I suggest you read the article it's contents is far more than just 9/11


Originally posted by ShadowXIX

Well lets see there is a terrorist suicide attack on the Twin Towers. Hey its not the first time Terrorist tried to take down the Towers. Who was behind it last time?

Says who, The American Government that's a source to believe in



Originally posted by ShadowXIX

Hey it was arab terrorist so lets check the flight list Hmm.. Mohamed Atta a person with known ties to OBL a known Terrorist. Well thats hard to figure out now aint it.

Again who says this, oh the American government, the same government that new where the WMD were in Iraq



Originally posted by ShadowXIX

And please dont start with that a '' a list of 20 terrorist came out hours after the attack" like people in your other 9-11 thread had to make up. The full list came out on 9-14-01.

Again the American government has proved it's self to be an unworthy source of information





[edit on 21/2/2005 by Sauron]



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 01:19 AM
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Originally posted by Sauron
Rwatkins;

I appreciate you reading the article as well as your comments, me posting this article is doing something about it. If I lived in the states I would be out protesting for change with the others who do, as I live in Canada I go to protest here, I send emails to my political representatives all the time, I have even gotten some answers in return. I know it’s not much.

However, to know and do nothing would make me as guilty as these criminals. I distribute articles to bus stations, police stations, politicians, and bars anywhere I go, if I have printed material with me in my car I leave it for people to read it’s just to make people think, to look outside the box.

A lot of people used to think I was nuts, but now people know what I do and when they see me they come up to me with questions about things they have read or been told and in some cases with news that they think is pertinent to me. I try to raise the awareness in people to what our governments are getting up to. If I get one person to question the status quo I feel I have done something small as it may be.
[edit on 21/2/2005 by Sauron]


I must admit, that's more than I've ever done. I applaud your work.
It's every patriot's duty to keep the government honest. I've never gotten a response from letters I've sent. I guess that shows the difference between our countries. I like Canada, been to Ottawa and thought it was beautiful. Just don't lump us all into a stupid stereotype. The last election was bogus, don't know how Bush pulled it off. And 9/11 was a bad day for us, touches too close to a nerve. Thanks for the respectable reply.



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 01:19 AM
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I used to feel that our government was behind it, but then I came to my senses. I mean, in one respect they are somewhat "responsible" for it ( foreign policy,etc.) But I really dont see what the motive would be for them to deliberatly do this.

If we wanted to start a war we could just fabricate some issues with a smaller, less powerfull a nation, set up impossible to follow sanctions, then when they violated those sanctions, invade and conquer them...oh wait...been there, done that..

Dont think that the American people would need a 9/11 to call us to war. Our country is always fighting someone, somewhere. Most of us dont pay attention. Its half-way around the world and doesnt impact our daily lives, so we dont care.

Now, if you look at 9/11 ask yourself this. Why. Why would our government try to pull this off. Just look at the logistics for a second. Hijack 4 planes and SUCCESSFULLY fly them into targets in NYC,etc. Do you have any idea the amount of people that would have been involved? One of them would have turned by now. I guarantee you. It just wouldnt be a logical way for them to start a war. To pull off a 9/11 where they would have undoubtly known the intensive scrutiny they would be placed under, the risk would have been to great. They could just go and pretty much "punk" any country that they wanted to, and we the people wouldnt do a thing. Maybe a protest or something, but nobody really listens to the hippies anyways. Point: It wouldnt be neccesary.

Now this is just MHO, but its what I think happened. I think the government knew 3 things. They knew that there were terrorists from the middle east planning on an attack here. They knew the economy was crumbling. They knew a war would generate money.

What they didnt know was how large an attack. They probably thought it would be a McVeigh type attack or another failed WTC attack. Either way, it would justify our attacking their nation of orgins. Now we probably assumed we could tie it so Saddam pretty easily. Maybe they thought letting them kill a few civilians here would rouse the people up a bit and get them wanting Iraq bad. Most americans never gave Iraq a second thought on Sept. 10th.

What they didnt bargain for was the size, success and people who did it. I think they were surprised as hell that it was Bin Ladin. They wanted Iraq, not Afghanastan. This was going to become a Huge expensive bore. I mean, not to sound callous, but who in America cares wtf happens in afghanastan? Now, Iraq..they got the oil...We can get something out of this. SO we quickly developed a plan to shift the publics attention from Bin Ladin to Saddam.

And that pretty much takes you up to this point. We're just about done in Iraq, then its off to Iran, or Syria. Probably Syria though. Irans big and nasty. The Americans dont wanna deal with that. We are in dire need of a good old fashioned "US quick win" I not to sure, but I dont think the Syrians would present more of a problem that a couple of fly-bys by the Steatlh couldn't handle. We'll let Israel deal with Iran..



***edited for spelling, redundency, removal of babble, and added points to be made. (like its any of YOUR business why I edit anyways...)

[edit on 21-2-2005 by spliff4020]



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 01:24 AM
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Sauron, Thanks for the link... In my opinion... It's right on the target,



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 01:27 AM
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Oh so now you are saying the 1993 bombing of the Towers was a coverup?
Done under Clinton.LOL sure thats got to be a first is that a new conspiracy you started all by yourself?

So I should believe some massive plot over nearly a decade that would have required hundreds if not thousands of people to be a part. Police,Firefighters,EMTs, FBI etc.. etc..

Three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead. Hundreds or thousands not a chance.

Lets see should I believe the facts or some persons Internet net post. Thats a hard one Internet posters have proven themsleves to be a unworthy source of information . With bunk like the list came out hours after the attack. I saved the darn papers after 9-11 and looked through them just to debunk that weak @#$!



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 01:35 AM
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Hundreds of thousands would not be in on it. All the EMT, firefighters and such knew was that a couple planes slammed into the world trade center....that's it.

As for the FBI, we see a gag order on the FBI translator who relayed that the government knew about the attacks before they happened...at least her supervisors did.

If the US government knew they were going to happen and did not act, they are guilty.

In fact, I'm watching a show on the History channel about the possible conspiracy that Roosevelt et. al knew Pearl Harbor would happen so that we'd become involved in World War 2.

Now, is it not possible the same thing is happening with Bush's crew as justification to go into the Middle East? We already know the justification was 9/11. The question is whether they were knowledgeable about the attacks before they happened.

Just the other day there was a report Rice knew about the attacks before they happened too.

Is the US guilty of gross negligence to promote an ulterior agenda? All signs point to yes.

[edit on 21-2-2005 by Jamuhn]



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 01:35 AM
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what facts? the only facts you have as to who done any of these atrocities has been presented to you by the very people who committed the crimes the American government.



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 01:44 AM
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Originally posted by Sauron
what facts? the only facts you have as to who done any of these atrocities has been presented to you by the very people who committed the crimes the American government.


No see the facts dont support your views and all you have to offer is opinions. You attack facts with your opinion which makes for a week case.

Fact 1993 arab terrorist set off a bomb in one of the Twin Towers.

Fact 2001 two planes crash into the same Twin Towers

Its not hard to put two and two together



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 01:46 AM
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JAMUHN---> I think we knew "something " was going to happen. We just didnt know what. And I disagree with you on something else. While, no, thousands of people wouldnt be neccesary to pull it off, more than just a few would. And as I stated before, we, as Americans dont really care about justifications. We dont need em. We pretty much do as we please, and the rest of the world cant do a damn thing about it.

So, I think that we didnt need a 9/11 to "call us up to war". They could have invaded whomever they wanted, and the majority of this country wouldnt have given a damn. Bottom line, it wouldnt be neccesary to do.

Also remember, at any given point in time, our gov is deluged with intel reports. This country has this....these people are doing that....How can you tell whats for real or not? Did they know that eventually we were going to get hit? Yes. Did they know September 11th, 2001 ? No.



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 01:47 AM
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Originally posted by ShadowXIX

Fact 1993 arab terrorist set off a bomb in one of the Twin Towers.

Fact 2001 two planes crash into the same Twin Towers

Its not hard to put two and two together


Sorry, but it's not always that simple.



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 01:50 AM
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Originally posted by ShadowXIX
And please dont start with that a '' a list of 20 terrorist came out hours after the attack" like people in your other 9-11 thread had to make up. The full list came out on 9-14-01.
[edit on 21-2-2005 by ShadowXIX]


While I agree with you that it is pretty obvious who the prime suspects in the attacks were, it still amazes me that we put together that much info that quickly. I mean it takes detectives months if not years to put together a case in a muder investigation. In one of the biggest crimes in our history though, it only took them days. I know this was an extreme case which warranted extreme measures but I think they were a little premature in their conclusions. For one, at that point we probably didn't have the full story on flight 93 or all videos of the three attacks gathered and analyzed properly. Hell, the crime scenes hadn't even been investigated thouroughly at that point and they released their findings. We had no clue at this point if it was only the planes that brought the towers down as they could have had terriost placed exsplosives to help with the destruction. I mean they got a bomb in their before, so with vigilance and proper planning why not again? I just think that we were so angry and confused that we wanted blood and we needed to focus that hatred on somebody. I think we needed to investigate a little more before we placed the blame and began to retaliate.



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 01:55 AM
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Originally posted by Jamuhn
Hundreds of thousands would not be in on it. All the EMT, firefighters and such knew was that a couple planes slammed into the world trade center....that's it.


[edit on 21-2-2005 by Jamuhn]


But for half these conspiracy theories to work hundreds would need to be in on it. For example the Pentagon one about "it wasnt a plane that hit the Pentagon" The bodies of the people on those flights and pieces of the planed were seen and recovered by Firefighters,Police,EMTs first responders etc..

If it was a tomahawk Missile or Global hawk as many make it out there would have been not bodies of the people on the flight and no pieces of a jet liner. So all those people would have been part of the lie.

Or lets look at the Twin towers brought down by demolition charges theory. Bring a building down that size would have been so loud everyone would have heard distinct explosives even felt the shockwaves hunderds if not thousands would have to lie and never say they heard anything. People would have had to ignore people setting charges in a building security,maintenance workers,janitors. Construction crews taking part in the clean up would have to ignored any piece of evidence of a of demo charges. hundreds of people would have to have been on on it or helping to cover it up.

Then theres always people you might not think of at first like people working behind cameras that would have caught pictures of any of these global hawks or whatever. More people to keep quiet.

People that got phone calls from people on planes they would have to be made to go along with the lie.

Before you know it thousands of people would in some way or another have to be part of the lie.



[edit on 21-2-2005 by ShadowXIX]



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 02:03 AM
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"Three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead. Hundreds or thousands not a chance. "

Really? So, how many Americans have heard the major media tell them that Silverstein is on record (as in voice recording) saying he told the NYFD to "pull" WTC7?

How many Americans even KNOW WTC7 collapsed *exactly* (as did the other two towers) like a controlled demo? THAT'S how a "conspiracy", as you wrongly label it (it is a covert action, meant to be "stealthy", as in secretive, therefore sure to draw a critical , skeptical eye) is done in America without most Americans knowing about it: Editorial Power.

If CNN doesn't say it, YOU don't believe it.

I don't recall the "flight list" of the plane that hit WTC7.

Care to enlighten me with it?



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 02:05 AM
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Originally posted by skychief
. For one, at that point we probably didn't have the full story on flight 93 or all videos of the three attacks gathered and analyzed properly. Hell, the crime scenes hadn't even been investigated thouroughly at that point and they released their findings.



Thats one I can agree with which is often overlooked and over shadowed by the other bunk theories. Flight 93 might well have been shot down by a US fighter plane to stop if from hitting a target in D.C.

Its even been addmitted that Cheney gave the order to bring the plane down, but its claimed the order never got through. It went down in a ideal area if you were going to take it down it. There would have been much less people in on it in. The fighter pilots and people that gave the order. It would have been much easier to contain the area of the crash unlike the Pentagin and WTC thus limiting the number of others that would have to be part of the lie.

But people waste so much time on tomahawks hitting the Pentagon and or 4000 jews stayed home and other bunk.




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