Imagine That You Are an Arab...

You ask:

"Just a little aclaration for Up, there is 4.5 Million Jews just in israel NOW, how could have been possible to have all over europe 6 million?"

This may be one of the most un-thought-through questions I have ever seen in my life! congratulations!

Israel is the size of a postage stamp - and you submit that there are 4.5 million there now. So are you excluding the Jews in America? and Europe? and every other nation and continent? Seems to me what you are admitting is that there only has to be a handful in every other country to get to what??? 6 million.

Furthermore, there are a HELL OF A LOT less Jews in the world today than there would have been if

6 MILLION OF THEM HADN'T GOT WHACKED!

Think before you post

Originally posted by Valhall
You ask:

"Just a little aclaration for Up, there is 4.5 Million Jews just in israel NOW, how could have been possible to have all over europe 6 million?"

This may be one of the most un-thought-through questions I have ever seen in my life! congratulations!

Israel is the size of a postage stamp - and you submit that there are 4.5 million there now. So are you excluding the Jews in America? and Europe? and every other nation and continent? Seems to me what you are admitting is that there only has to be a handful in every other country to get to what??? 6 million.

Furthermore, there are a HELL OF A LOT less Jews in the world today than there would have been if

6 MILLION OF THEM HADN'T GOT WHACKED!

Think before you post

As far as i know, every Jew that is not orthodox must go there to israel to live (in case he wants to be in a land of people like him), the rest are in exile as their religion says.
I was telling you Valhall, that how could it be possible that in the land of the jews (israel) and after the Holocaust, how come is gonna be less people than the TOTAL leaving in europe 50 years ago? is not suposed to grow?

BTW Valhall
www.learntoquestion.com...
is a good site! i recommended to you
educate-yourself.org...
is also ok.

many Jews emigrated from Europe prior to the war, thus putting them outside of German reach,
it was about million (not including those absorbed by the USSR).

i miss something don�t you?

No ColdAnger...

Let us think this through together, since you are having problems working it out on your own.

You cannot apply a population growth equation to the number of Jews in Europe in the 1930's and then estimate what number should be in Israel now.

Couple of reasons why: One, the population of Jews in Israel has to be established to grow starting in 1948. It is a discontinuity. You have to start with the migration of the Jews back to Israel at that point.

Second, there is a discontintuity in the population growth equation BECAUSE 6 MILLION JEWS WERE MURDERED. So you will have a negative step-wise change in the population growth.

There are NOT going to be as many Jews on the earth right now as there would have been if 6 million hadn't been killed.

A dead person can't have children, CA...get it???

In mathematics-Exponential Growing

U should know that kind of things don�t you?

Yeah, I "know that kind of things". And what I am trying to convey to you, with ever decreasing patience is you CANNOT apply the exponential growth equation to the population of Jews in Europe in the 30's, because you have to take back out 6 million.

And when you remove 6 million from the static count of population in an EXPONENTIAL equation, you create a catastrophic change in the projected growth of the analyzed people.

Then, there is the question of the current population in Israel. You have to analyze the annual migration rate of the Jews to Israel along with applying the population growth equation to that specific area. This cannot accurately be achieved by some "average" migration rate for the past almost sixty years, but should be done in an integral form.

AND, a Jew NOT living in Israel is still a Jew...that designation has been covered in another thread that you should spend a bit of time reviewing. A "Jew" is determined by their lineage, not their geographic location.

Originally posted by Tyriffic
...so, Bout time, what do you envision as a solution??
Seriously.

Any solution that has ever been successful to any political problem, first and foremost, addressed "Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs" - if the most basic of human needs are not accounted for across the board, they'll always be a hand raised to fight for it.
If their exists no sustainable industry for the Palestinians that is seperate and autonimous from Israel, they'll always be subserviant.
If Israel needs to incorporated a large block of it's workforce( a fifth to a quarter) with Palestinians, they've a continued ambiguity as to their domestic safety.
I am not opposed to the thought of relocation - give them land, deeds and all, set them up, foster a protection force and be done with it.
It's got to be less ( billions) than what is being thrown at the problem now.

BoutTime, if only we could wave the Magic Wand of Common Sense and make this happen.....

My pessimism begins at the root of this conflict-

Originally posted by Valhall
Yeah, I "know that kind of things". And what I am trying to convey to you, with ever decreasing patience is you CANNOT apply the exponential growth equation to the population of Jews in Europe in the 30's, because you have to take back out 6 million.

And when you remove 6 million from the static count of population in an EXPONENTIAL equation, you create a catastrophic change in the projected growth of the analyzed people.

Then, there is the question of the current population in Israel. You have to analyze the annual migration rate of the Jews to Israel along with applying the population growth equation to that specific area. This cannot accurately be achieved by some "average" migration rate for the past almost sixty years, but should be done in an integral form.

AND, a Jew NOT living in Israel is still a Jew...that designation has been covered in another thread that you should spend a bit of time reviewing. A "Jew" is determined by their lineage, not their geographic location.

www.census.gov...

And check here in 1945 how many people were living on earth, and check now that we almost did triple it, soon we will be 3x as much people as in 1950, which will mean a global disaste anyway.

www.ibiblio.org...


I think u still don�t understand what exponential means ha? 6 millions was simply not possible to happen val
get real serious...

** Of the 6,000,000 killed in Poland 2.9 m were Jewish

www.valourandhorror.com...

Now, WHY exactly do you say it's "Not possible"?
I think you need to look in some other places for data besides killalljews.com

Fry2,

your "source" also indicates "The figures shown are the maximum estimates for each case" alongside with "300.000 civilian japanese casualties". The Poland civilian deaths seem to be grossly exagerated except if they encompass the german civilian casualties after WW2 of about 3 million. Quite a selective news source.

bss.sfsu.edu...
www.ysursa.com...

need more?

Originally posted by Fry2
bss.sfsu.edu...
www.ysursa.com...

need more?

The first link is the same as before and the second link sports even more fantastic figures about German civilian casualties, that seem to be attributed to Poland. There seems to be a systematic snark in your sources, Fry.

Originally posted by Fry2
** Of the 6,000,000 killed in Poland 2.9 m were Jewish

www.valourandhorror.com...

Now, WHY exactly do you say it's "Not possible"?
I think you need to look in some other places for data besides killalljews.com

So they were more jews all over europe than all jews that living in Israel from 50 years ago, while the world wide population has grown almost 3 times it�s size in the last 50 years????
Sorry but reserve those kind of comments to others"I think you need to look in some other places for data besides killalljews.com"
If u are not smart enough to read my posts i don�t need to stand your ignorance about me, so please next time keep quiet about that...

50 years ago, there was less than a decade's worth of migration of Jews to Israel.

And I read NO propaganda of either side from the Internet. I read books. I suggest you do the same...here is a highly recommended list to get you started out of the severe stupidity you're stuck in:

1.) First grammar and english composition. This will help you both comprehend the written english word, as well as do a bit better in writing it yourself.
2.) Any history textbook.
3.) Start with 1st grade math and work yourself up to anywhere in the high school level...then maybe you can comprehend population growth concepts.
4.) Read up on the population in Europe (all races included) BEFORE the plague, then apply the new found techniques you learned in point 3. above, and tell me why the population of Europe isn't what it should be based on the pre-plague numbers.

Until you complete these 4 steps, I consider you a lost cause.

Originally posted by Valhall
50 years ago, there was less than a decade's worth of migration of Jews to Israel.

And I read NO propaganda of either side from the Internet. I read books. I suggest you do the same...here is a highly recommended list to get you started out of the severe stupidity you're stuck in:

1.) First grammar and english composition. This will help you both comprehend the written english word, as well as do a bit better in writing it yourself.
2.) Any history textbook.
3.) Start with 1st grade math and work yourself up to anywhere in the high school level...then maybe you can comprehend population growth concepts.
4.) Read up on the population in Europe (all races included) BEFORE the plague, then apply the new found techniques you learned in point 3. above, and tell me why the population of Europe isn't what it should be based on the pre-plague numbers.

Until you complete these 4 steps, I consider you a lost cause.

as for your first point, my english is not native, i think i speak and write much better than most of all non-native english people.

2nd point, is as far as i see, u seem to not understand that there is one history, or one book that tell you what happened, there is versions, and ideals on those books, and i had the perfect example at school of that, so my question to you, is from which side you want me to read that book?


3rd well, if u reply what u did, u seem to still not understand what exponential means...
Is like a cell u know, from that 2 will come, and from those 2 another 2 etc etc etc.


4th about the plague of the 1300, well what do u expect from 700 years ago?
Because u can�t compare any growing of that age, now, with the 20th century as i am doing, i talk about the last 50 years and u do talk about 700...

Well i don�t need to do the 4 useless points, so maybe u can consider me lost. But still u need to learn mathematics

Here you go egbert:

Since you've got your powers of 2 down...you can graduate to Population Growth Models II

cas.bellarmine.edu...

Make special note of the severe impact change in the population at a given moment will cause to the growth curve.

(Yeah, right...you're gonna get it, aren't ya.)

Originally posted by Maxwell Smart

Originally posted by Fry2
bss.sfsu.edu...
www.ysursa.com...

need more?

The first link is the same as before and the second link sports even more fantastic figures about German civilian casualties, that seem to be attributed to Poland. There seems to be a systematic snark in your sources, Fry.

Hey Maxwell, while your discounting others info, why not provide your own to back up theirs being wrong eh?
Otherwise, one tends to think the supported info may indeed be correct.

regards
seekerof

Did you notice this little piece at the bottom of my "dis-information"?

Source: Encyclop�dia Britannica

Originally posted by Fry2
Did you notice this little piece at the bottom of my "dis-information"?

Source: Encyclop�dia Britannica

I doubt this is really excerpt from the Encyclopedia B., since 700.000 civilian German deaths are perhaps a minimum estimate for the casualties resulting from US/British bombing of German cities. Not included is the number of German civilians (millions) genocided after WWII by Czechs, Russians, etc...

The EB's figures are even contradicted by your first source, so there your go for a news link. The first link is inaccurate already because of the fact they cite "300.000" japanese civilians as a _maximum_ estimate. I doubt it is difficult to produce accurate numbers, but keep in mind that is probably no coincidence that a traditional british source plays down german civilian casualties while an american source plays down the japanese casualties. As always the truth probably lies somewhere in between.