It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Whats the difference where one pays - private insurance (with deductibles/denial) or taxes?

page: 4
10
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 8 2018 @ 05:51 AM
link   
Healthcare discussions are a trigger for me... I really should stay away from these threads.

The cost of healthcare for me and my daughter takes approx 50% of my paycheck, private insurance, its the only affordable option right now (LOL) which really isn't affordable. That doesn't leave enough for the rest of my monthly bills.

It makes me sick enough to throw up thinking about it.

We are both healthy individuals with no medical history issues and we've always had full insurance coverage our entire lives.

I am truly disgusted at what the industry is doing.

leolady




posted on Jul, 8 2018 @ 07:00 AM
link   
a reply to: leolady

Wish you could be on the plan I'm on. I pay about $60 a week for medical, eye, and dental plus (dental plus covered 2 grand of my dental this year).

True health insurance reform is needed.



posted on Jul, 8 2018 @ 12:43 PM
link   



But back to the logical argument; "medicine for profit is insane" ... wtf? Even if you pair it down it it's most basic parts ... doctors, pharmacists, hospitals administrators, nurses and ect... no matter who pays them in the end ... they are in the business to make a profit ... to say or think otherwise is either insane in itself or some weird advocacy of slave labor.


All employees need to be paid and I for one would like all people paid generously.

I don't want doctors caring for me that the only reason they went into medicine is to make money. In such a case, there is no reason for them to do their best.

I want medical professionals that went into the field because of higher callings. A call to care for and serve others. I can't tell you the Doctors and Nurses that I've spoken to over the years in personal life that went into medicine because of altruistic reasons. I've also known several that left the profession or went into administration because of the horrible working conditions, the time wasted on non-care duties and other factors affecting their ability to practice their Art.

Do you want an ER physician when you need one, only to be their for money or to please their parents, even if rather good at their job?



As for "Medical care should be a human right" that idea can never be fully realized ...


Of course it is an 'ideal'. But isn't it better to strive towards an 'ideal' rather then just label it as impossible.

Think of these ideals ... "Life" "Liberty" and "The Pursuit of Happiness"



But again I'm all for single payer ... let's just make logical arguments in favor of it that way more people will get on board .


Yay - email, write and call your representative.....
edit on 8-7-2018 by FyreByrd because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2018 @ 12:45 PM
link   

originally posted by: leolady
Healthcare discussions are a trigger for me... I really should stay away from these threads.

The cost of healthcare for me and my daughter takes approx 50% of my paycheck, private insurance, its the only affordable option right now (LOL) which really isn't affordable. That doesn't leave enough for the rest of my monthly bills.

It makes me sick enough to throw up thinking about it.

We are both healthy individuals with no medical history issues and we've always had full insurance coverage our entire lives.

I am truly disgusted at what the industry is doing.

leolady


You did well ....

You are not alone ....

Call, email, write your representatives at all levels. Focus your anger.



posted on Jul, 8 2018 @ 01:06 PM
link   
In answer to your question, 'universal healthcare' means government, and government services are one size fits all and the doctors are government workers meeting government quotas.

As messy as it looks, a free market medical system pushes innovation and drives costs down. The problem is yes, we have a third-party middle-man system that seeks to make a profit from people's medical misfortune. This means there is no incentive for insurance costs to go down.

We do need reform in the USA. That reform should not be more government, it should be better insurance options.

We don't use automobile insurance for changing tires, changing oil, coolant flushes, engine repair, AC recharge, etc. Those are paid out of pocket and therefore mechanics offer competitive prices for their services and in some cases a non-professional can make those repairs themselves.

So too should our healthcare be. A lot of times the basic day-to-day care can be covered by standard non-specialized care. At most we need a doctor or nurse to give us a prescription for an antibiotic or schedule II/III painkiller. Heck, even broken bones and twisted ankles only require basic standardized procedures. Look at plastic surgery and LASIK/Eye corrections. Those weren't covered by insurance and the prices went down. Nowadays you can get discounts from sight correction, but I think that is a private company wellness offer and not straight insurance (I could be wrong).

Insurance needs to be saved for the big catastrophic problems, and in my opinion the money put into health insurance that isn't used should become a payout to the family upon death.



posted on Jul, 8 2018 @ 10:50 PM
link   

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: Lumenari

If they charged everyone 1/10th of what the insurance companies are charging us, there will be plenty left over for education and preventive care.

Insurance companies are indeed parasites. They evolved from a useful service to parasitic organizations that have made the whole system septic.



You are uninformed.

Health insurance companies, by federal law, make a 2% profit.

Period.

Their premiums went up because their customer pool suddenly had to include pre-existing conditions.

Before the ACA, health insurance agencies made a 2% profit.

After the ACA, health insurance companies make a 2% profit.

The big change was the regulations that they had to deal with.

With all the paperwork involved in complying with new government regulations.

So they had to spend 47% more... to make a 2% profit.

The only thing that changed was regulations, courtesy of the government.

Which, btw, is the actual parasite.

Think it through is my advice.




posted on Jul, 8 2018 @ 10:57 PM
link   

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: Cabin

In the US we'd like to get Universal healthcare...but don't want to pay for it...(I could use universal for me and my family)


But we are paying for it, we just arent getting it.

The lobbyiest are the benefactors, not us .
edit on 57731America/ChicagoSun, 08 Jul 2018 22:57:33 -0500000000p3142 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2018 @ 10:57 PM
link   

originally posted by: FyreByrd
a reply to: Lumenari

Not only would administrative costs be lower overall - nothing has to go to shareholders. In other words, no dividends or stock buybacks and other stock price manipulations to increase C level pay.

An ever growing population of US citizens have no 'company-sponsored' health insurance and among those who do, deductables and co-pays can be prohibitive.

Bankruptcies in those with, I repeat, with company-sponsored, or any kind of insurance is rising. This does not happen in civilized countries.


So you are saying that when the government passed the ACA, costs went up, but if they took the whole thing over, it would cost less. Because the United States government does exceedingly well at cutting costs and providing a better product.

Link for an example please. Of anything that they have done ever like that. Like the Veteran's program as an example! Or possibly Tribal health care... where you can't be sick after June because they don't have any money.

What color is the sky in the world you live in?



posted on Jul, 8 2018 @ 11:03 PM
link   

originally posted by: eckasha13
a reply to: Lumenari
Genius comment. You must have really reached deep inside yourself and all of your genius connections to make this comment.



Actually I just typed out some common sense.

Which I am assuming from your reply that you don't understand, so we can just throw out the words genius or rational or common sense and I will just ask you for a rebuttal.




posted on Jul, 8 2018 @ 11:36 PM
link   
a reply to: Boadicea

Life is full of risk. People die having "fun" all the time.

Hazards of life are everywhere. It's sad that these "educated", "progressive", "thinkers" aren't telling/teaching that "to live" you're going to bleed a few times before you die. So don't do risky things. But that's not what they teach. They preach "have fun".. "Live life". Instead of preaching make life last.
There is absolutely no guaranty any of us will survive the next ten minutes.

Here's the deal.

A lot of us "uneducated", "non-progressive" types, sew up our own cuts and scrapes.
We don't run to the "emergency room" every time we have the sniffles. But a vast majority of "society" does.

I have a hard time accepting the idea, that I have to, "help" pay, "my fair share", for the punk that broke his spine on a handrail, doing some youtube skateboard stunt.

Then I gotta help feed the idiot till he/she/it dies?

I wish libs had that sort of "emotional attachment" to the babies that they kill, by the thousands, that haven't even had a chance to be stupid yet...

Nobody of sound mind, takes "universal healthcare" advocates seriously. Because there's to many idiots at play, always will be. Even without them public treasure shouldn't be used on it. People start dying the day they're born. That's fact! That's why any socialist ideals will never fly in the U.S.
Any treasure going to a government controlled "healthcare" will be a failure just like everything else they take money for. The only thing that will happen, is they'll ask for more money down the road.

It's really a stupid Idea to begin with.

Here's a good "healthcare" plan. Put the spoon down and push yourselves away from the table. Go out get some sun.... Oh wait!??!! The sun is bad! Here, "buy" this cream. .. "Healthcare" is a business. Not a science.



posted on Jul, 9 2018 @ 06:28 AM
link   
a reply to: murphy22

That was quite a rant... but here's the bottom line: Government is the problem. So government either gets the hell out of the healthcare business so that we ALL fend for ourselves, OR government finds a way to make sure everyone gets necessary medical attention.

And that can be done via both public and private insurance. It's been done elsewhere. It can be done here.

Because for all the bitching and whining about "Oh noes! I might have to pay for someone else's medical care," everyone pays into this healthcare system but not everyone benefits from this healthcare system.

So the rich are quite literally taking from the poor... and that's unconscionable and unacceptable, even though some folks do feel entitled that way. Obviously.



posted on Jul, 9 2018 @ 08:09 AM
link   
a reply to: interupt42

You said it better than I did....



posted on Jul, 9 2018 @ 08:29 AM
link   
Under our current system I pay when I need medical care.

Under the other system you pay when everyone needs medical care.

How is that not simple to understand?

Healthy people pay relatively nothing in healthcare every year in the USA.



posted on Jul, 9 2018 @ 08:52 AM
link   
a reply to: jjkenobi

Except so many people do not pay that you DO pay for others still.



posted on Jul, 9 2018 @ 08:55 AM
link   
a reply to: Lumenari

All the ACA did was ensure insurance companies made a lot of money. No cost cutting measures.



posted on Jul, 10 2018 @ 01:56 PM
link   
I have been watching this exchange going back and forth between you and Lab4Us, but wanted to watch the conversation unfold. I'm really glad you addressed the judging/moralizing approach to argument. It solves nothing and is incredibly childish, useless, and contemptuous. Tell your flat tire that it shouldn't be engaging in risky behavior and see if that puts the air back in it. AND the approach wreaks of the very inaction that so called Conservatives (more useless labels that mean nothing to us plebeians anymore) have such disdain for. We have to take into account the corporations the government has subsidized, and remember the direct phone line those of dynastic wealth have to key officials who can cut red tape for them, or pull strings to help them broker deals, which have far reaching disastrous effects on the ecosystem of the world. Big chem/food corps deliberately eliminate diversity because they can't control costs if they carry too many products, which really means destruction of ecosystems and dependency on artificial means by which to supply sustainability to the corporation, over which the corporation has total control and imposes itself on the will of consumers, by removing choice through it's hidden practices and crushing small farmers. Diversity is necessary for sustainable ecosystems and health by virtue of the synergistic effect life has on itself. GMO's are a PSYOP, and before chemicals were grafted into the DNA of some plants, Archer Mills, now Archer Daniels, waged a campaign to only grow short-grain wheat in the 60's because it's easier to grow over long grain wheat, which is still easy to grow, and eliminated the strain completely from the market of the United States. The long grain promotes healthy weight and doesn't mess with hormones the way the short grain wheat does. But short grain wheat does help us get to the doctor and buy some drugs from the pharmaceutical companies pretty damn fast. I can only order the long grain variety from India, in enormous quantities only as of yet. Still vetting sources by which to purchase and considering investing in my own market. And we all know what happened with sugar. There has been a plan to consolidate wealth and power in the US since the industrialists joined forces with the bankers of the world and installed the Federal Reserve in 1913 and it is being done through centralized banking, through consolidated commodities, and endless favor exchange. They have poisoned our air, water, and food, things that have always been available to anyone by virtue of them living on the planet trying to make us completely dependent on them and cement our dependency by eliminating the materials from our environment that we would use to be sovereign, independent-interdependent entities on ourselves, all the while, also while having technologies squirreled away in their Deep State vaults that would remedy our health concerns almost instantly. All originally derived from the Babylonian money magic priesthood authority practices of yore... Us mere plebeians are fighting our executioners' battles for them as they control the dialogue and conversation in main stream media. And simple comparisons of the investment it requires to care for someone with lung cancer and caring for someone with Alzheimers aren't even available for processing while they are foaming at the mouth, enraged by their own misplaced blame mixed with a healthy dose of malnutrition to screw with the inner workings of our thinking mechanism. I haven't had health insurance for years. (Even when I did have health insurance, I almost never went to the doctor. I have been studying and practicing natural medicine since I was 17 and become a vegetarian at 15, in South Dakota which went over great in 1986 in a small town where everyone knows who I am, not) Death insurance is too expensive and always has been and my chances of living a longer and happier life by investing in my health practices are far better than they are participating in death care.

After all of THAT long windedness, we all need to start having a conversation about what we need as human beings, and who we are. While everyone is yelling and screaming each other, our fight or flight responses are being activated. What is important to know about our fight or flight responses? Why do we have defenses? Could it be that we want to survive? Isn't that our highest ideal? What is another word for survive? S--, s---. come on, I know we can all say it together...SUSTAIN. We have to in a way, psychologically start our country over and look at each other, and say, "Ok, ok, enough. We're trying to live and create a legacy and live the best quality life that we possibly can. How do we do that in a way that most respects individual differences without compromising our overall well being?" We have to actually talk about what we need, divide the tasks among the individuals who show the aptitude and desire to carry out those tasks, make discoveries and create things and share them with each other. In this progress is made. We're not making progress now. We're fighting. Wilheim Reich's inventions, Teslas research and several other, lesser known inventors' and researchers' works have been classified or destroyed. If we don't calm the f--- down, we can't do any of this. I have been having this conversation with anyone that would have it with me, since the early nineties, from my little po-dunk Midwest state. I'm in NY now where I'm closer to certain resources educationally that one doesn't have there, but make know mistake, so many of these intellectuals are still materialist fascists, it's just that there's a lot more history, libraries, etc. here, so I have access to the information I want here also. I would like to see this trend continue. I appreciate the original question and also how you have handled your own sub-dialogue.



posted on Jul, 10 2018 @ 03:07 PM
link   
a reply to: eckasha13

Wow... and yes!!! All that you said and so much more.

There are so many factors that affect our health, and our healthcare. And the healthcare reform that we really need goes far beyond who pays who for what. And far beyond what we do as individuals, including whatever "risky" behavior we engage in. Factors completely out of our control, but which impact all of us. Corporate and regulatory decisions are made every day that have profound and far reaching effects on both individuals and humanity as a whole. But our priorities are out of whack. And the few are making all the wrong decisions for all the wrong reasons.

I love your use of the word "sustain." I usually think in terms of nursing and nurturing our lives, but the whole purpose of nursing and nurturing is to sustain! (I may just have to yoink that from you and add it to my conversations... if that's okay with you?) I don't like how dependent society is becoming -- being forced to become -- on others for their healthcare. There is so much people can and should do for themselves, both to nurture and maintain health, and to heal and nurse oneself. Too many people are afraid of their own bodies, and afraid of taking care of themselves.

I've come to believe that the absolute first step in true healthcare reform must be a Patient's Bill of Rights, establishing a foundation that puts health first and foremost, and the system built/reformed to fulfill those fundamental principles. What we have now serves the corporate profit model and health be damned.



posted on Jul, 11 2018 @ 02:33 AM
link   
Why don't you try reading some of my other commentary and actually see where some things intersect. I responded to your glibness with glibness. How about an actually conversation with other human beings who have real concerns and have reasons for creative open ended discussions, verses rash in-platitudes, that sound like the same old #? Or should we just leave ALL decision up to the powers that be to drive our decisions and reactions based on the bs explanations they offer in the mainstream media, in other words, information derived from FOX, MSNBC, or CNN. Breitbart and Alex Jones are also alternative media PSYOPS. Glenn Beck has more integrity, although his own religious agenda, but more authenticity and honesty anyway. Riddle me THAT confuscation
.



posted on Jul, 11 2018 @ 02:41 AM
link   
Catch up to the rest of the civilised world and get a NHS style system in you will all be better off in the long run.
edit on 11-7-2018 by testingtesting because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2018 @ 02:59 AM
link   
Use my version of sustain all that you want. You can quote me and take credit. I don't care. I'll probably use some of your examples at some point in my discussions in my life, but saying where I got it from will make the story more interesting depending on the circumstances and urgency of need in situations .

Just wanted to share my favorite clip from 'Powder" www.youtube.com...



new topics




 
10
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join