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Why do Democrats oppose immigration control?

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posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 12:15 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

Well said.

I am a proponent of "open borders" and I see or hear very few people on the Left that actually agree with a similar position.

Also, I had a conversation with someone on ATS (a self-proclaimed libertarian) a while back about this very issue and I explained my position was very similar to that of the libertarians of old. They could not grasp the concept that in order to enjoy more freedoms, you had to give up the mindset of authoritarian government control for the sake of security.

They literally argued that border security was more important than individual freedoms.

Those that tend to call themselves libertarians do not seem to be about more freedoms and less government intrusion. They seem to be republicans that call themselves libertarians because they believe the Republicans party is not far enough right for their brand of extremism.




posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 12:15 PM
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I've been reading this thread and laughing.
Why?
Liberals go "Libs dont want open borders! It's all an alt-right lie!!", and then explain why we shouldn't turn people away.

In short; yes, democrats want open borders. They want and need more voters and this is exactly how they plan to get it.

As for the simple-folk democrats, they support it because of the media's emotional guilt trip.

Watch as they scramble to defend this.


edit on 6-7-2018 by 1337Kph because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 12:15 PM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Because they need all the illegal votes they can get to keep their people in office. Or they just use them to try to make themselves look better, which is impossible.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 12:20 PM
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a reply to: AboveBoard



Progressives think in terms of the whole planet, and the potentials of creating a more evolved and advanced international system that would foster greater peace and prosperity.


You realize of course that moving in that direction thoroughly undermines the sovereign authority of the "National" government? Which begs the question..........if that were to happen, why would anybody in their right minds agree to comply with the taxing authority of a failed National government?

Progressives may want to embrace and promote that Utopian vision but I'm not sure they've entirely thought through what the unintended consequences would be.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 12:28 PM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

The idea that the Left is for "open borders" is a lie. I mean, I'm sure there are *some* people on the Left who are because we're talking about tens of millions of people and in a group that large, you can always find some examples of people having whatever position you're looking for.

Speaking of which, there is one group that has actually promoted open borders and they didn't use to be very shy about doing it — the Libertarian Party. It was literally part of their official platform back in the 80's when David Koch was running for VP on the LP ticket. Nobody really talks about how the Koch brothers, the most prominent and prolific of conservative donors in the country, actually have supported open borders. To many right-libertarians, borders are simply impediments to free markets like environmental regulations.

Even Bernie Sanders, the current most visible face of the further-left of mainstream politics in the US, came out against open borders.

Look at the responses in this thread. You can either take the word of a bunch of right-wing zealots repeating propaganda mantras or you can look at what left-wingers actually tell you about their opinions. Here's mine:

Of course we need border security. Of course we should be combating drug cartels (and a good start would be undercutting their profits by ending the War on Drugs) and nobody wants human trafficking except soulless human traffickers.

I want a path to citizenship for DACA recipients. It also sure seems like we should be augmenting visa programs to meet market demand and in the same stroke, come down hard on those who exploit illegal immigrants. I don't think we should be using immigration policy as a form of social engineering and allowing rich people to buy visas. We can and should maintain refugee programs. I want people, including those who are being deported, to be treated humanely. Most people coming here are coming for the same reason as my forebearers and many are fleeing from even worse circumstances.

I think it's also important that we recognize that the actual data shows that illegal immigration is a less of an issue than it's been in a generation and realize that the crisis mentality promoted by fearmongering demagogues is part of a international push by the far-right to seize political power using the boogeymen of "foreign invaders" and the "end of the West." Not only is the dehumanization and demonization disgusting on its face and toxic to society, if you actually look at what's transpiring in some of these countries (Poland for instance) where far-right regimes are coming into power, the anti-immigration agenda is part and parcel of a rise in far-right authoritarianism.


So you are more on board with the direction Trump's immigration plan, because he's the only President aggressively pursuing it. If you have a problem with the laws, some of which are flawed, then look at Congress. If you want to look at why the laws are weak and/or no fully enforced up to this point, look at Obama and the Democrats. Trump is doing his job and enforcing law that Congress enacted. If they don't like the law, lawmakers of both sides of Congress need to do their jobs and legislate and Trump is putting pressure of them. So, he's the designated bogey man and punching bag, but he doesn't seem to mind. What if he actually get immigration reform done? Looks like he's forcing the issue.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 12:29 PM
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originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

I’m not a Democrat, but the idea the majority wants to eliminate immigration control is a lie of the right b

They want to create the false narrative that Dems want an “open border,” which is not true. Isolated individuals may want that, but the Dem majority want a secure border, just as cruelty free as possible.

You have to understand also, that the private prison business has thrown considerable money at the Republicans, and Trump himself, and these for-profit companies get paid by the government based on occupancy. This alliance coupled with Trump wanting to appear “tough” on immigration, has led to the horrible separation of children from parents at the border.

The parents detention is money in the bank for the above prisons, but they don’t take children. Other organizations who do take children are being paid by our taxes to look after these traumatized kids.

The left thinks that kind of “tough” is amoral and unnecessarily cruel. ICE is not complying with returning kids to parents despite a judge’s order.

It’s a mess. So anyway, the premise of the OP is based on a successful lie of the right, not the truth. “Open borders”
and “no border control” is not a goal of Dems.



The Dem majority are not gonna outright say they want open borders until its politically safe to do so either.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 12:33 PM
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a reply to: TonyS


"The Whole Planet" ie Globalism. You pretty much nailed it by mentioning the loss of sovereignty!


Globalism = Cultural Marxism and Economic Fascism



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 12:36 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

There are 14 million of them. What are you going to do take away their children? That would be inhumane.

Immigrants are good for the economy. We should just make them citizens so we can collect all the missing payroll taxes from them. People are people. We are all Earthlings. People who are anti-immigrant are just full of hate and want to scapegoat immigrants for all their problems. Without scapegoating Trump would not be president.




Partisan BS talking point.

Trump did not run on a 0 immigrant policy, nor do his supporters support that notion. It is and always shall be about ILLEGAL Immigration.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 12:40 PM
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originally posted by: 1337Kph
I've been reading this thread and laughing.
Why?
Liberals go "Libs dont want open borders! It's all an alt-right lie!!", and then explain why we shouldn't turn people away.

In short; yes, democrats want open borders. They want and need more voters and this is exactly how they plan to get it.

As for the simple-folk democrats, they support it because of the media's emotional guilt trip.

Watch as they scramble to defend this.



So you believe you speak for the democratic party?

My, my. Aren't you full of yourself.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 12:41 PM
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a reply to: Wardaddy454

Yes, we know. He wants people from Norway. lol.

but, but, but he's not a racist!



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 12:43 PM
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originally posted by: angeldoll

originally posted by: 1337Kph
I've been reading this thread and laughing.
Why?
Liberals go "Libs dont want open borders! It's all an alt-right lie!!", and then explain why we shouldn't turn people away.

In short; yes, democrats want open borders. They want and need more voters and this is exactly how they plan to get it.

As for the simple-folk democrats, they support it because of the media's emotional guilt trip.

Watch as they scramble to defend this.



So you believe you speak for the democratic party?

My, my. Aren't you full of yourself.





Don't listen to words, look at actions.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 12:44 PM
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originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: Wardaddy454

Yes, we know. He wants people from Norway. lol.

but, but, but he's not a racist!



Which is funny, when the left points to everything in homogeneous Scandinavia as the recipe for social success.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 12:58 PM
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a reply to: seeker1963

The European Union= Cultural Marxism and Economic Fascism.

No?



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 01:05 PM
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a reply to: angeldoll

Since when is it racist to want people from Norway?

You dislike people from Norway?



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 01:07 PM
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Wow, such a fascinating read of all the replies in this thread, thanks to everyone.
The political situation seems way more complicated in the US compared to the UK. Here if you are illegal and 'they' catch you then you go into detention, get healthcare, 3 meals a day and processed to see if you have a valid claim to asylum.
If not, or if you've been in a safe nation prior to entering Britain then you get kicked out. Tens of thousands a year get kicked out.
...and there is no strong campaign here to change the system, come here illegally then you take the risk that 'the man' will catch you and kick you out. As I've said previously though, I personally wouldn't grass someone up to the authorities.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 01:09 PM
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originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: Wardaddy454

Yes, we know. He wants people from Norway. lol.

but, but, but he's not a racist!



Which is funny, when the left points to everything in homogeneous Scandinavia as the recipe for social success.


You mean it's funny because I was quoting Trump? He's the one who said that, you know.

By the way, here's Norway's response to him:


edit on 7/6/2018 by angeldoll because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 01:14 PM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

You wouldn't have as easy a time if you are a "typical white male." Your white privilege wouldn't get you in the door at any activist group that defends the poor, downtrodden immigrants who only want to come and live in this country and work hard. Those immigrants only come from certain countries and have certain skin colors because they are obviously being victimized by the white power patriarchal oppressive system in place in the US.

So if you have anything in common with the that system, you are SOL and will be deported ASAP.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 01:15 PM
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Anybody who in not a Native American calling for an end to immigration or stringent controls is a hypocrite. You are an immigrant yourself. It's really just that simple. To somehow disparage a liberal person for wanting to show empathy and compassion for people less fortunate, particularly those who are downtrodden, abused or threatened in some way is an indictment on how callous Americans have become. I proudly am one that has not lost my humanity. That is not to say immigration should not be regulated, but that is a different issue altogether.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 01:22 PM
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originally posted by: tabularosa
Anybody who in not a Native American calling for an end to immigration or stringent controls is a hypocrite

Thanks for confirming us all how badly unwanted illegal immigration ended up for the natives.

Do people that use this argument actually believe it helps their message? Lol.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 01:25 PM
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originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
I'm from the UK and here it is pretty strict. If you enter illegally or overstay your visa you get detained and processed. If you came from a safe nation before entering Britain then you get kicked back there and denied any claim for asylum. If that can't be proved then the asylum claim will continue, but fail and you get kicked out.

I'm not aware of any substantial campaigns to change the system we have, and I don't know anyone who disagrees with it, even my left leaning socialist friends. We can't have a free for all or we'd be over run. There are thousands camped in Calais (France) right now refusing to register there because they'd lose the right to claim asylum if they then make it into Britain.

The UK/France/Belgium border is also 'juxtaposed' meaning UK border force are actually on the continental side keeping people out. The French hate it, they'd just let them on the trains and ferry's, they don't want them either.



"Democrats, why don't you want controls on the number of people who enter your country?
Seems nuts to me.

Thanks in advance for any replies, this is a questioning thread so I haven't got much more comment to add other than above.


why would you question that, when you know the your actual question is false in the first place?....



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