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Progressives think in terms of the whole planet, and the potentials of creating a more evolved and advanced international system that would foster greater peace and prosperity.
originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy
The idea that the Left is for "open borders" is a lie. I mean, I'm sure there are *some* people on the Left who are because we're talking about tens of millions of people and in a group that large, you can always find some examples of people having whatever position you're looking for.
Speaking of which, there is one group that has actually promoted open borders and they didn't use to be very shy about doing it — the Libertarian Party. It was literally part of their official platform back in the 80's when David Koch was running for VP on the LP ticket. Nobody really talks about how the Koch brothers, the most prominent and prolific of conservative donors in the country, actually have supported open borders. To many right-libertarians, borders are simply impediments to free markets like environmental regulations.
Even Bernie Sanders, the current most visible face of the further-left of mainstream politics in the US, came out against open borders.
Look at the responses in this thread. You can either take the word of a bunch of right-wing zealots repeating propaganda mantras or you can look at what left-wingers actually tell you about their opinions. Here's mine:
Of course we need border security. Of course we should be combating drug cartels (and a good start would be undercutting their profits by ending the War on Drugs) and nobody wants human trafficking except soulless human traffickers.
I want a path to citizenship for DACA recipients. It also sure seems like we should be augmenting visa programs to meet market demand and in the same stroke, come down hard on those who exploit illegal immigrants. I don't think we should be using immigration policy as a form of social engineering and allowing rich people to buy visas. We can and should maintain refugee programs. I want people, including those who are being deported, to be treated humanely. Most people coming here are coming for the same reason as my forebearers and many are fleeing from even worse circumstances.
I think it's also important that we recognize that the actual data shows that illegal immigration is a less of an issue than it's been in a generation and realize that the crisis mentality promoted by fearmongering demagogues is part of a international push by the far-right to seize political power using the boogeymen of "foreign invaders" and the "end of the West." Not only is the dehumanization and demonization disgusting on its face and toxic to society, if you actually look at what's transpiring in some of these countries (Poland for instance) where far-right regimes are coming into power, the anti-immigration agenda is part and parcel of a rise in far-right authoritarianism.
originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy
I’m not a Democrat, but the idea the majority wants to eliminate immigration control is a lie of the right b
They want to create the false narrative that Dems want an “open border,” which is not true. Isolated individuals may want that, but the Dem majority want a secure border, just as cruelty free as possible.
You have to understand also, that the private prison business has thrown considerable money at the Republicans, and Trump himself, and these for-profit companies get paid by the government based on occupancy. This alliance coupled with Trump wanting to appear “tough” on immigration, has led to the horrible separation of children from parents at the border.
The parents detention is money in the bank for the above prisons, but they don’t take children. Other organizations who do take children are being paid by our taxes to look after these traumatized kids.
The left thinks that kind of “tough” is amoral and unnecessarily cruel. ICE is not complying with returning kids to parents despite a judge’s order.
It’s a mess. So anyway, the premise of the OP is based on a successful lie of the right, not the truth. “Open borders”
and “no border control” is not a goal of Dems.
originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy
There are 14 million of them. What are you going to do take away their children? That would be inhumane.
Immigrants are good for the economy. We should just make them citizens so we can collect all the missing payroll taxes from them. People are people. We are all Earthlings. People who are anti-immigrant are just full of hate and want to scapegoat immigrants for all their problems. Without scapegoating Trump would not be president.
originally posted by: 1337Kph
I've been reading this thread and laughing.
Why?
Liberals go "Libs dont want open borders! It's all an alt-right lie!!", and then explain why we shouldn't turn people away.
In short; yes, democrats want open borders. They want and need more voters and this is exactly how they plan to get it.
As for the simple-folk democrats, they support it because of the media's emotional guilt trip.
Watch as they scramble to defend this.
originally posted by: angeldoll
originally posted by: 1337Kph
I've been reading this thread and laughing.
Why?
Liberals go "Libs dont want open borders! It's all an alt-right lie!!", and then explain why we shouldn't turn people away.
In short; yes, democrats want open borders. They want and need more voters and this is exactly how they plan to get it.
As for the simple-folk democrats, they support it because of the media's emotional guilt trip.
Watch as they scramble to defend this.
So you believe you speak for the democratic party?
My, my. Aren't you full of yourself.
originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: Wardaddy454
Yes, we know. He wants people from Norway. lol.
but, but, but he's not a racist!
originally posted by: Wardaddy454
originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: Wardaddy454
Yes, we know. He wants people from Norway. lol.
but, but, but he's not a racist!
Which is funny, when the left points to everything in homogeneous Scandinavia as the recipe for social success.
originally posted by: tabularosa
Anybody who in not a Native American calling for an end to immigration or stringent controls is a hypocrite
originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
I'm from the UK and here it is pretty strict. If you enter illegally or overstay your visa you get detained and processed. If you came from a safe nation before entering Britain then you get kicked back there and denied any claim for asylum. If that can't be proved then the asylum claim will continue, but fail and you get kicked out.
I'm not aware of any substantial campaigns to change the system we have, and I don't know anyone who disagrees with it, even my left leaning socialist friends. We can't have a free for all or we'd be over run. There are thousands camped in Calais (France) right now refusing to register there because they'd lose the right to claim asylum if they then make it into Britain.
The UK/France/Belgium border is also 'juxtaposed' meaning UK border force are actually on the continental side keeping people out. The French hate it, they'd just let them on the trains and ferry's, they don't want them either.
"Democrats, why don't you want controls on the number of people who enter your country?
Seems nuts to me.
Thanks in advance for any replies, this is a questioning thread so I haven't got much more comment to add other than above.