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Why do Democrats oppose immigration control?

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posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 07:09 AM
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originally posted by: mkultra11
a reply to: AboveBoard

Actually the moderate Democrats do want to secure the border, which majority of American citizens want. The problem is the Democrat party has been hijacked by the open borders, pro illegal immigration and abolishimg ICE. That is their message ans self proclaimed future of the party.

The LIE, is that Trumps a racist who hates immigrants, ICE are Nazis who use concentation camps, his voters are white supremacists, etc.. and trash the country in the process. Do you actually think thats true?

To the OP, like any political party, they want votes which is completely expected and understandable. The problem is their strategy, which is to usher in as many (beginning under Obama) ILLEGAL migrants as possible, create a weak immigration system that would grant instant citizenship, AND same citizenship promise for chain migrants. A fast track to citizenship and then they have the generational voting block, like they have with African Americans.


1. There is no guarantee that an immigrant or their descendants will be Democrats. That is fear-mongering from the right. When McCain lost to Obama, the Reps did some “soul searching” and concluded that they needed to be more inclusive and bring in Latino voters. Many Latin voters are socially conservative Catholics and they are hard working and good citizens who have jobs and start businesses and pay taxes. One might ask what the Republicans are doing that “alienates” them...

2. There is a far left faction, but they do not all support open borders. That is a position of an extreme minority’s. ICE is a fairly young agency, and is not constitutionally mandated. Some Dems feel immigration could be handled better without this agency, which Congress doesn’t control. They take orders directly from the President. ICE is not “checked and balanced” as it is an enforcement agency of the Executive Branch.

3. Trump won by stoking up nativism and fear of “others” with different cultures. He has made efforts to portray MS-13 as a massive organization and implied that most people crossing the borders are “bad people” even though MS-13 is only 10,000 US members strong and has been that way for the past decade. If he wants the bad people out, he should be prioritizing their removal, but instead he’s targeting everyone AS IF they were ALL “bad people.”

4. People on the left see Trump as a brutal Authoritarian who wants to be Putin and who is using immigration as a wedge issue to fuel his base and increase his power. I don’t want to get into discussions about Trump and racism, but his history and family history might be interesting to those who wish to form an opinion for themselves.

5. He is lying about the left wanting open borders.



+1 more 
posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 07:11 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

The American people are a welcoming and generous people. But those who enter our country illegally, and those who employ them, disrespect the rule of law. And because we live in an age where terrorists are challenging our borders, we simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, and unchecked. Americans are right to demand better border security and better enforcement of the immigration laws.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 07:14 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: watchitburn


You're intentionally misrepresenting immigration with illegal immigration.


No, that is what the Trump administration has been doing. He is conflating refugees, economic immigrants, and criminals in order to make all immigration look threatening.

Left politicians do that here in the UK. They lump economic migrants into the same group as asylum seekers so anyone complaining about too much immigration is blasted as heartless about the poor souls fleeing persecution or whatever.
Britain deports tens of thousands a year because they have no valid claim to asylum, or they passed through a safe country first where they should have claimed it there.

We don't need illegal immigration, we have enough legal eastern European immigrants to do the crappy jobs here, over a million people from Poland for example.
France can keep the thousands camped at the port of Calais though, they are refusing to register there because then they would kiss goodbye to claiming asylum here. Britain has even paid millions on security at the French port to keep them off the ferries, massive fences etc, Trump would be proud.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 07:15 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: watchitburn


You're intentionally misrepresenting immigration with illegal immigration.


No, that is what the Trump administration has been doing. He is conflating refugees, economic immigrants, and criminals in order to make all immigration look threatening.


I'd argue that that's just how you choose to view the situation because you're too partisan to actually acknowledge reality.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 07:15 AM
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a reply to: watchitburn

Yea yea. I've heard that cold hearted spiel before. I was just commenting on your faux appeal to morality against parents trying to risk it all with their children to get away from a horrible situation.

Sorry bro. I happen to enjoy underdog stories.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 07:18 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

You would absolutely hate Britain's immigration policy then.
It is much stricter than the US.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 07:24 AM
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originally posted by: M5xaz
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy



It is that simple.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 07:25 AM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Well I'm not trying to immigrate there. So that really isn't a concern of mine. See my signature. I like my country's immigration history, even if modern day America is trying to forget it exists.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 07:26 AM
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originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: M5xaz
So again, call me stupid but is it really true that illegal immigrants get the right to vote in the US???
Seems nuts to me, they don't get that right in the UK, heck the only rights they get here are detainment centres, healthcare, and 3 meals a day while being processed.


In theory the illegals can't vote, but there are several factors:

1) In some areas they can get driver's licences, then mix that with lazy or corrupt poll workers
2) In some areas there is a political machine that gets them to cast ballots under other names
3) In some areas the local government lets them vote in local elections

Then add into that the push for sweeping amnesty to make them legal.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 07:31 AM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

The answer is easy.
The United states is a special magical utopia that everybody deserves to live in and we are expected to have different immigration standards than every other country in the world.

And as far as illegals being allowed to vote.
Maybe they haven't figured out a way but the kids they have been having while here are now voting or will be soon. This immigration has been happening for decades.
edit on 6-7-2018 by Bluntone22 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 07:31 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Bigger nation than us as well, since EU membership we are bursting at the seams, we can't take illegal immigration as well.
The schools can't cope, class sizes have risen, translators needed for kids who don't speak English, and that's just from Eastern Europe. Housing costs have risen due to increased demand etc
I support Britain's firm stand on illegal immigration, they get processed, detained, kicked out, and DNA samples taken when they are caught here.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 07:34 AM
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originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

The answer is easy.
The United states is a special magical utopia that everybody deserves to live in and we are expected to have different immigration standards than every other country in the world.


It seems nuts to me.
Try getting into Australia, they don't even hold you on the mainland, they rent an island off another nation to detain their illegals.
Britain is really strict compared to the US, and I agree with it.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 07:36 AM
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originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
I'm from the UK and here it is pretty strict. If you enter illegally or overstay your visa you get detained and processed. If you came from a safe nation before entering Britain then you get kicked back there and denied any claim for asylum. If that can't be proved then the asylum claim will continue, but fail and you get kicked out.

I'm not aware of any substantial campaigns to change the system we have, and I don't know anyone who disagrees with it, even my left leaning socialist friends. We can't have a free for all or we'd be over run. There are thousands camped in Calais (France) right now refusing to register there because they'd lose the right to claim asylum if they then make it into Britain.

The UK/France/Belgium border is also 'juxtaposed' meaning UK border force are actually on the continental side keeping people out. The French hate it, they'd just let them on the trains and ferry's, they don't want them either.

So Democrats, why don't you want controls on the number of people who enter your country?
Seems nuts to me.

Thanks in advance for any replies, this is a questioning thread so I haven't got much more comment to add other than above.

You have been mislead by Republican propaganda.

President Obama, a Democrat, deported record numbers of illegal immigrants.
Obama Has Deported More People Than Any Other President



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 07:39 AM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

It's because politicians pander, and they think by pandering to people who come here illegally, they can appeal to everyone here from their demographic group too and lock in a huge voter block.

What they can't seem to figure out and what polls seem to be confirming is that people of that demographic who came here did so to escape crappy people and the things they bring with them like high crime and dangerous lifestyles. In the US, this is derided as "white flight" when people leave neighborhoods degrading into high crime areas, but in this case, we might call it "Latino flight" or something since the largest demographic we get is Latino but it's certainly not at all exclusive to them.

Latinos who come here, particularly the ones who did it legally, did so to escape the crappy conditions and people they left behind.

It doesn't seem to have penetrated yet that they aren't necessarily all that keen to have those people follow them here illegally bringing the same conditions they worked so hard to escape with them, they don't tend to look with favor on politicians who encourage it through open borders and amnesty policy.

This is why Texas despite its very high Latino population is still red.
edit on 6-7-2018 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 07:44 AM
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originally posted by: Greven

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
I'm from the UK and here it is pretty strict. If you enter illegally or overstay your visa you get detained and processed. If you came from a safe nation before entering Britain then you get kicked back there and denied any claim for asylum. If that can't be proved then the asylum claim will continue, but fail and you get kicked out.

I'm not aware of any substantial campaigns to change the system we have, and I don't know anyone who disagrees with it, even my left leaning socialist friends. We can't have a free for all or we'd be over run. There are thousands camped in Calais (France) right now refusing to register there because they'd lose the right to claim asylum if they then make it into Britain.

The UK/France/Belgium border is also 'juxtaposed' meaning UK border force are actually on the continental side keeping people out. The French hate it, they'd just let them on the trains and ferry's, they don't want them either.

So Democrats, why don't you want controls on the number of people who enter your country?
Seems nuts to me.

Thanks in advance for any replies, this is a questioning thread so I haven't got much more comment to add other than above.

You have been mislead by Republican propaganda.

President Obama, a Democrat, deported record numbers of illegal immigrants.
Obama Has Deported More People Than Any Other President

That was interesting, heck I don't know what to believe anymore now!



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 07:44 AM
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originally posted by: Greven

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
I'm from the UK and here it is pretty strict. If you enter illegally or overstay your visa you get detained and processed. If you came from a safe nation before entering Britain then you get kicked back there and denied any claim for asylum. If that can't be proved then the asylum claim will continue, but fail and you get kicked out.

I'm not aware of any substantial campaigns to change the system we have, and I don't know anyone who disagrees with it, even my left leaning socialist friends. We can't have a free for all or we'd be over run. There are thousands camped in Calais (France) right now refusing to register there because they'd lose the right to claim asylum if they then make it into Britain.

The UK/France/Belgium border is also 'juxtaposed' meaning UK border force are actually on the continental side keeping people out. The French hate it, they'd just let them on the trains and ferry's, they don't want them either.

So Democrats, why don't you want controls on the number of people who enter your country?
Seems nuts to me.

Thanks in advance for any replies, this is a questioning thread so I haven't got much more comment to add other than above.

You have been mislead by Republican propaganda.

President Obama, a Democrat, deported record numbers of illegal immigrants.
Obama Has Deported More People Than Any Other President



And yet he didn't do a damn thing to stop the flow into the country.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 07:45 AM
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And as far as illegals being allowed to vote.


Not just yet.

But they do get up on stage and speak at Democratic National Conventions.

www.reuters.com...

The TRUTH shall set you free.
edit on 6-7-2018 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 07:47 AM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

I'm ambivalent about it myself. I understand the need for border control and in that part I'm not against it, but total shutdown is ludicrous. It's a numbers game really. There are too many people crossing the border of all sorts of varying situations to kick them all out at once. I'd rather we focused on gang members, ACTUAL proven criminals, and repeat deportees rather than families and first time crossers. In FACT, I'd think it would be even more beneficial if from there instead of registering the family for potential deportation later, we work to get them legalized so that they are on the books. But that's a bit too radical of an idea these days.

In any case, worrying about border crossing is ridiculous. There are many many ways to get in to this country and stay illegally. And as I said, I like immigration. I really don't have a problem with illegals being in the country and trying to make a better life for themselves and their family. My only concern is their citizenship status, which allows them to be paid below minimum wage and not be entitled to workers benefits. Correcting that and giving them citizenship would make me happy.

America still has plenty to share and the mixture of different ideas is what made us the great nation we are today. We've fought this immigration battle before and the nationalists and anti-immigration folks ALWAYS lose this battle.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 07:48 AM
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originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: Greven

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
I'm from the UK and here it is pretty strict. If you enter illegally or overstay your visa you get detained and processed. If you came from a safe nation before entering Britain then you get kicked back there and denied any claim for asylum. If that can't be proved then the asylum claim will continue, but fail and you get kicked out.

I'm not aware of any substantial campaigns to change the system we have, and I don't know anyone who disagrees with it, even my left leaning socialist friends. We can't have a free for all or we'd be over run. There are thousands camped in Calais (France) right now refusing to register there because they'd lose the right to claim asylum if they then make it into Britain.

The UK/France/Belgium border is also 'juxtaposed' meaning UK border force are actually on the continental side keeping people out. The French hate it, they'd just let them on the trains and ferry's, they don't want them either.

So Democrats, why don't you want controls on the number of people who enter your country?
Seems nuts to me.

Thanks in advance for any replies, this is a questioning thread so I haven't got much more comment to add other than above.

You have been mislead by Republican propaganda.

President Obama, a Democrat, deported record numbers of illegal immigrants.
Obama Has Deported More People Than Any Other President



And yet he didn't do a damn thing to stop the flow into the country.

Curiously, the GOP website has this...
Flashback: Democrats Talked Tough On Immigration

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: “Real reform means strong border security, and we can build on the progress my administration has already made -- putting more boots on the Southern border than at any time in our history and reducing illegal crossings to their lowest levels in 40 years.

Real reform means establishing a responsible pathway to earned citizenship -- a path that includes passing a background check, paying taxes and a meaningful penalty, learning English, and going to the back of the line behind the folks trying to come here legally.

And real reform means fixing the legal immigration system to cut waiting periods and attract the highly-skilled entrepreneurs and engineers that will help create jobs and grow our economy.” (President Barack Obama, Remarks At State Of The Union, Washington, D.C., 2/12/13)

It doesn't even say he's wrong. Perhaps you too have been mislead by propaganda?
edit on 7Fri, 06 Jul 2018 07:49:57 -0500America/ChicagovAmerica/Chicago7 by Greven because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 07:48 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Again really interesting reply thank you

So you have South American 'legal' immigrants who are against illegal immigration as well. That makes some sense to me, especially if they did it the official way jumping through hoops to get citizenship.
I still think its crazy that I could overstay an ESTA visa waiver and get myself a driver licence in some states, I almost want to do it just for the chuckle. Maybe one day.







 
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