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Wisconsin police can legally draw blood from unconscious drunk drivers without a warrant

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posted on Jul, 5 2018 @ 10:20 PM
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you can get a DUI for other things than alcohol......

I got arrested for suspicion of DUI (ended up with 0.07..they were WRONG!) and the stress (and terror as I have PTSD and the screaming, violent cop triggered me pretty badly!) made me have a seizure. I was diagnosed with epilepsy 10 years ago......and I was taken to the hospital where I was basically just cleared for processing. The cops got a warrant, (kind of...long story), but I was UNCONSCIOUS when they stole my blood from me. I woke up in 4 point restraints with 5 cops on top of me holding me down, even though I was restrained in some kind of torture stretcher......no IV....no EKG....
what prompted the cop to stop me? My neighbor, who I have been in a quasi-feud with called 911 and said she saw a (my car's description) driving fast on such and such road......no matter WHAT I said, the cop was CONVINCED I was drunk....

I HATE that I had to share a very stressful time in my life to try and make a point....those days sucked......but why are we the people giving such power to law enforcement for DUI? A man who almost beats his wife to death with a hammer wouldn't be able to have anything done with regard to his case without a warrant.....so why is it ok for DUI?

So back to MY experience.....all in their desperation to get the DUI arrest....what if I had started to have another seizure while restrained like that? What if a cop just decided to take blood on the side of the road and people start getting infections....TOO much leeway and this kind of this REEKS of totalitarian, "police state" "slippery slopes"....not cool in my book.....a reply to: Zarniwoop

edit on 7/5/2018 by Cornczech because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 5 2018 @ 10:27 PM
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DUI's are "special"....people arrested for them ARE FORCED to "incriminate themselves" or they are punished for not doing so....in some states with jail. a reply to: FyreByrd



posted on Jul, 5 2018 @ 10:38 PM
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originally posted by: Cornczech
the hospital can run tests and they ARE bound by HIPPA laws.....they don't have to give those results to the cops.....especially without a warrant.....thus saving the patient....blood tests can be done without giving the results to LEO.....a reply to: Isurrender73



So we need to have a judge on call 24/7 in order to get a warrant?

Can anyone provide any reason why a warrant would be denied by a judge when someone is passed out at the wheel of a vehicle? Being passed out at the wheel is more than enough for probable cause.

Requiring a warrant in such situations is a waste of money. This is common sense.



posted on Jul, 5 2018 @ 11:03 PM
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again....not everyone is "passed out behind the wheel" and there are "special warrants" that are basically copies with rubber stamped signatures.....so really...it isn't a warrant at all....since it is just a copy of a copy of a copy of a pre-signed warrant.....

funny...I guess the Constitution is a "waste of money"......well...until YOU experience YOUR constitutional rights being ignored....a reply to: Isurrender73

edit on 7/5/2018 by Cornczech because: (no reason given)

edit on 7/5/2018 by Cornczech because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 12:41 AM
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a reply to: Cornczech

The OP is pertaining to the unconscious. Everything I posted was in reguard to the OP. I'm not sure what you are talking about.

I have been profiled and fit the description enough to know that the cops are not above making up reasons to stop and question someone. I don't support this obvious violation of my 4th amendment.


edit on 6-7-2018 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 12:51 AM
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a reply to: bobs_uruncle


Or if HIV-positive blood squirts into the officer's face! At one time, rescue people were told not to give mouth-to-mouth for that reason.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 01:25 AM
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originally posted by: Isurrender73

So we need to have a judge on call 24/7 in order to get a warrant?


Damn right! What you need to understand is that due process is not there to protect the accused. It is there to protect US, the people. When someone goes to trial, it is The People of Wherever vs. Whoever. As part of The People, I demand that anyone accused of any crime is afforded every right allowed by the United States Constitution. Every single right, every single time. If we start allowing the government to pick and choose which rights people are allowed to have, we will find that, one by one, we don't have any rights at all.

Judges are paid well enough to have as many "on call" as needed to issue warrants. And they should be held civilly and criminally liable for issuing warrants that do not meet the standard of "probable cause."


originally posted by: Isurrender73

Can anyone provide any reason why a warrant would be denied by a judge when someone is passed out at the wheel of a vehicle? Being passed out at the wheel is more than enough for probable cause.


I can give you a personal example. I took a trip to Boston one day, long before GPS. Working from a map, I knew where I wanted to be. It was night when I finally arrived in Boston. Between one-way roads and road construction, I couldn't find a route that would take me to the address I wanted. After about an hour of driving in circles, I gave up. I got back on the interstate and drove back to a rest stop outside of the city. I figured I would take a nap and try again when I had daylight. About 4am, a state trooper knocks on the window.

He asked for license and registration, I gave it to him. He seemed PO'ed about something. He threw the papers on the ground and walked away. The guy was a jerk, but I was too tired to tell him so. I got out of the car, got my license and registration, and went back to sleep.

Even though I was sleeping in my car in the driver seat, I wasn't drunk, and there was no probable cause for any warrant.


originally posted by: Isurrender73

Requiring a warrant in such situations is a waste of money. This is common sense.


Upholding the rights our forefathers fought and died for is never a waste of resources, no matter what "common sense" may suggest. If it is, then we may as well disband our military and just let any other country invade, take over, and tell us what "rights" we can afford to keep. No sense in anyone dying over rights we can't afford to waste money on.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 01:27 AM
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originally posted by: trollz
Well, if a person is unconscious, bloodwork could be the difference between them living or dying. The cops have no way of knowing if they just drank too much or OD'ed on something.


This is not part of the duty or qualifications for any cop. If this was a thread about the ER I would probably agree. The difference obviously is that cops are part of the executive branch of government which enforces laws, not a private entity committed to saving lives.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 01:41 AM
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a reply to: JAGStorm

No they can’t..

It’s worse. They do not know they are drunk yet or they wouldn’t need the blood test..

So that means they can force a blood test if they even suspect you..

That should be the title.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 01:46 AM
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a reply to: Isurrender73

To violate your privacy in LITERALLY the most over the top way, drawing blood, ABSOLUTELY.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 01:47 AM
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a reply to: trollz

The hospital already does that. Presently the cops still need a warrant to get the results.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 01:48 AM
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a reply to: JBurns

BWAHAHAHA your party has always been the ones pushing civil forfeiture and other police state type policies..



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 02:19 AM
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a reply to: VictorVonDoom

Your example has absolutely nothing to do with what I am saying. No example given so far has anything to do with what I was replying to in the OP.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 04:29 AM
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Isnt there already case precedence on this



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 05:04 AM
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a reply to: Cornczech

You blew within the warn range, and it was wrong?

Or you blew within' warn range and they didn't get a chance to take more accurate tests?
The road side devices even if not calibrated right are pretty accurate to detect alcohol in the system... sounds like you did and got away with a technicality.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 05:11 AM
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originally posted by: Cornczech
the hospital can run tests and they ARE bound by HIPPA laws.....they don't have to give those results to the cops.....especially without a warrant.....thus saving the patient....blood tests can be done without giving the results to LEO.....a reply to: Isurrender73



If the state is prosecuting they will simply get a court order to get test results, Apparently Wisconsin is stupid. They are worried about something they dont need. Since driving is considered a privilege and not a right, states can suspend or revoke your driver's license, levy fines, or even put you in jail for not submitting to a BAC test when suspected of a DUI. Under "implied consent laws," drivers have implicitly consented to a BAC test in exchange for driving privileges. Therefore, you essentially surrender your driving privileges if you refuse. And can lead to jail time anyway since the prosecutor can use evidence collected at the scene, including officer observations, witness testimony, or the results of a field sobriety test.



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 05:12 AM
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a reply to: Cornczech

No one is suggesting that cops are allowed to take blood themselves. They want hospital doctors to hand over blood test results.

Also, DUI charges and convictions as we all know are cash cow cases and cops pretty much pick and choose their 'victims'. This is because it's a blanket law, it's been broken so many times that the laws involved are just there to say no more, enough. You get caught, you're done, open and shut case. In most cases if you blow over, it's suspicion to take you to the station and get a more accurate test, 9 times out of 10 the person is drunk, or intoxicated somehow.

But the scary part is, most of the more dangerous people who continue to do it, get into fender benders, or minor accidents, know they can ask to be sent to the hospital for a check up, and the cops are then on a time clock, because it could take hours before they can get a more accurate test, and by then they can sober up.

I know, because I had a friend who did that TWICE and he gloated about it. He even hurt someone else!



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 05:19 AM
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I'm going to look at both sides of this...

Pro:

When someone is in an accident, the police have a need to know if the accident is alcohol related or not. A blood test performed on the spot would give invaluable data on that, and delays can cause poor readings as alcohol is rapidly metabolized over time.

Con:

A driver who is passed out after an accident should receive medical attention regardless of whether they have been drinking or not. An accident by definition includes blunt force to the body, and can cause internal injuries. Thus, a person passed out who has been in an accident should automatically be transported to a medical facility by certified medical personnel (EMTs) as soon as possible. Thus, there is no need for unqualified personnel to resort to blood drawing.

Should blood be drawn improperly, damage can occur. Large air pockets in the syringe can be destructive to blood vessels by causing pressure extremes inside them. Sterilization is difficult in a condition which is not monitored for such and can lead to potentially incurable disease.

There is already a legal precedent that a person who is unresponsive consents to emergency life-saving medical treatment by certified professionals by default. This extends that implied consent to non-certified non-medical personnel, and could lead to improper decisions by such personnel. For instance, a reading of drunkenness on site might cause a police officer to conclude that medical treatment is not immediately necessary, while in fact there could be life-threatening internal damage that is not externally evident.

During an accident investigation, the police have many roles to fulfill: emergency notifications of needed personnel, rescue of those endangered by the aftermath, traffic control, investigation, locating any suspects that may have fled the scene after causing the accident, handling bystanders, and assisting other personnel as needed. That leads to a generally chaotic situation wherein non life threatening medical procedures may be either botched or performed multiple times unnecessarily.

There is the issue of self-incrimination. When one does not consent to a blood test, one is effectively providing evidence against oneself against one's will. Even breath tests are not required the be taken; one can refuse a breath test. However, by refusing the breath test, one is then able to be subjected to arrest so more evidence can be gathered against them in an adversarial manner to comply with legal requirements.

 


Yeah, this is not a good thing and will likely be shot down per my last con comment.

TheRedneck



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 05:43 AM
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I was unconscious.....there was NO BLOW, (I wouldn't have agreed anyway.) I was NOT observed driving erratically, I didn't make ANY traffic mistakes.......my "stop" was when I was at the parking lot of a restaurant and I was OUT of my car....the "stop" was based on a bogus call......by the way......the case was never prosecuted. I paid for a lawyer the day after I was arrested, called the State department that regulates hospitals and made a formal complaint against the hospital that allowed my restraining in leather straps that left HUGE scars all over my ankles.....and the hospital was found to be in violation of it's own procedures......so I started squawking about my treatment at the hands of those jag offs....the moment I got out of my false imprisonment, (I was also charged with tadaaaaaaaaa....resisting arrest because I ...HAD A SEIZURE.....I kicked out during my seizure and then was charged with aggravated assault of a LEO......see how that works? Lets add as MUCH AS WE CAN to the arrest of a woman who has NO record....who didn't even have a drivers license for 10 years because of epilepsy......and I ended up with a BAC of UNDER the legal limit......the cops even tried to charge me with REFUSING to allow my BAC to be drawn....which would have been a loss of my DL for a YEAR even if found NOT GUILTY......my refusal? I was post-ictal and unconscious from a seizure.......I COULDN'T consent.......a "fake" warrant was obtained via a copied copy of a warrant that the cops keep a stack of on their car.....it wasn't even filled out properly......and remember, the hospital I turned into the State.....was found in VIOLATION of their OWN POLICIeS......all to see if an epileptic was "drunk" less than 1/4 of a mile from her home....by the time I was processed, the wounds from my violent KIDNAPPING were dressed and photos taken of my wounds.....a social worker was crawling up my ass......I was released with NO bone or bail, (despite the two additional felonies I was charged with) and I never heard another word from the court again.....not a PEEP.....I was INSTANTLY all over the hospital and would have been all over the sheriff's office that arrested me had my lawyer suggested I NOT do so........
MY point is that DUI gets "special treatment" and this "treatment" borders on and in some cases, blatantly violates a person's constitutional rights........why is this ok EVER? A police state isn't COMING....it is already here and has been since right after 9/11.....

a reply to: strongfp



posted on Jul, 6 2018 @ 07:06 AM
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ya know, I'm sorry but if you are passed out in a car and still haven't gained consciousness when you arrive at the hospital, maybe a blood test isn't such a bad idea? and this is what happened in the case the op is referring to. the cops did not see the guy passed out in the car and pull out their little blood drawing kit and start going vampire on him... they called an ambulance, the guy was transported to the hospital, where they then requested that the hospital staff reserve a blood sample for them because they believed he was dwi. heck, he may have been just as likely to have been in diabetic shock!
it just seems reasonable to me that if you show up at a hospital unconscious and there's no one around that can explain why you are, that getting a blood sample would be one of the first things they would do. and once those blood tests are done, the alcohol level will be evident and a warrant can be obtained to prove weather or not the guy was drunk.
weather the cops went through a procedure such as this or not really doesn't matter much, the guy was found unconscious in a car, they called an ambulance, the guy was taken to the hospital and medical care was provided.. including tests to determine why he was still unconscious, which a warrant, weather obtained that night, or next week, would provide the evidence needed for a dwi, wouldn't it?
I would object is it was unqualified cops taking the blood, but it was done at the hospital, by medically trained staff, in a sterile environment.
maybe people shouldn't allow themselves to get so drunk that they put themselves in a position where they lose control of their selves?? or if they can't manage that, stay home so they can pass out in the comfort of their own homes?




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