A difference between Judaism and Islam...

There are of course many OBVIOUS Differences, but here is an interesting one I found.

In order to put this "revelation" into full context first let me share some previous knowledge I had gained.

It was pertaining to several important differences between these 3 religions. First, the difference between the bible and Mohammad's life, is the bible goes from Vengence to Love. Mohammad's life went from a sort of love, more like a peace, to vengence against the hethen.

Secondly, came with the common phrase of Jesus's "Do unto others as you wish them to do unto you."

Well his phrase isn't entirely original since a philosopher at the same time had a similar phrase before him, that wasn't catching on do to its negative aspects...see if you can't feel that "negativity".

"Do not do to others as you would not have them do to you."

Phrasing things is always important, because they may mean the same thing but the "feeling" it generates is not.

This difference I think is strong between Islam and Judaism.

The Koran says, "For he who murders one, murders all the world."

The Talmud however says, "He who saves one life, saves the world."

I think subtle differences in mannerisms such as these cause larger problems that we see today in these religions.

I'm not meaning to step on any toes, but it is worthy of discussion as while Israel is experiencing a lot of violence between both Muslim and Jew, throughout the world the Jews are very peaceful and respectful, while the Muslims are very violent and destructive.

At least in their more theocratic regiems....Iran, Syria, formerly Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan, so on...

I do think Islam's message, which is no different than Jews or Christians, was, is and always will be doomed to fail, because it was written by people used to tribal warfare.

As poetic as it may be, the words speak truth, but convey darker feelings.

In a sense this is in Judaism too, and even more so in Christianity.

But I feel it is strongest in Islam.

Oh well, not all of us must agree that such differences in phrasing really have such an impact on society.

But worth thinking about.

Robbie

Congratulations on your Insider Appreciation Award!

The 'tribal' nature of the Islamic message I am not sure of at all. In my awareness Islam is the only Abrahamic religion to have mentioned the other two in its original scriptures, and different interpretations will show you that it either preaches tolerance or death to infidels.

Just the same as the others preach, in relation to deviations from divine commandments.

But a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and just a little knowledge and an authoritative quotation from a scripture can lead a whole flock of followers to do some stupid, outrageous things.

It is improbable to expel religious programming from your head if you have had years of indoctrination.

But it's worth trying, isn't it?

I include here a portion of a post I made on this thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...

very closely related to your comments on connotation. This, I believe, would be an example of negative connotation being used by the "christian" religion.

Originally posted by Valhall

Second instance: Skip to New Testament, Paul at Mount Mars, in his address to the Greeks. Paul has viewed all the Greek altars to all the Greek gods and has seen that the Greek's in their TRUE desire to worship ALL possible gods has erected the altar to the "Unknown God"...

KJV:

Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too SUPERSTITIOUS. For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye IGNORANTLY worship, him declare I unto you. (KJV, Acts 17:22-23)

oops, lookie here!

A more accurate translation of the Greek manuscripts states:

"And having stood - Paul in (the) middle of the Areopagus he said, Men, Athenians, with respect to everything how very RELIGIOUS I observe you (to be). For passing through and looking carefully at the objects of worship of you, I found also an altar on which had been inscribed, TO (THE) UNKNOWN GOD. Therefore what NOT KNOWING you worship, this I proclaim to you."
(UBS Greek/English Interlinear New Testament)

I think even the casual observer would quickly note that there are two almost diabolical connotations in these two translations. The first a negative ridiculing with the adjectives "superstitious" and "ignorant". The second, a positive commending with the observance of the Greeks' "religious" nature, and then offering to reveal what has been (by their own inscription admitted) the UNKNOWN.

My impression of the issues/problems with religions is with respect to fundamentalism.

Whose impetus seems to reflect more so a political motivation above and beyond issues related to faith.

As a result while with the faith of mustard seed you can move mountains doing so could get you burned at the stake.

Oh of course it can't be the only factor, nor iterpretation.

I just think that inheritantly Judaism is less violent in its writings than is Christianity (which includes the violence inherant in Hebrew texts and some of its own), and then Muslim texts have their own which I feel is influenced by the fact that they were a warrior-tribe people before Muhammad united them with Religion.

I just find it interesting of the opposite positions in the torah and the koran, regarding the statement that's the primary basis of this thread.

About the save life and murder.

I feel it shows that "ancient violence" in the system.

I find the statement of the jews, compared to the islamic version, to be an interesting observance.

As the Jew's is by far more "peaceful" and the Muslims more violent...

However the argument might have importance if the Israelis weren't so locked in conflict...whether it is their fault or not.

Which I don't really believe it is their fault due to the violence beginning by the aggitators, not the Israelis...

again, its all about control over the masses

i studied religion. my parents introduced different ideas to me on what the world and its people consist of. ive felt the facade of religion. sat through church, bible studies, talmud studies, kaballah studies.

my family has a very wide assortment of different nationalities and backgrounds. from what i have gathered in my perception, only I can understand. the best way to bleed my ideas onto others is to be upfront and real. no bullsh*t lies and promises.

the minister use to tell the congregation "jesus will save you". the rabbi would tell his congregation "mashiach (meaning god) will walk you through the promise land"

they all took donations....no doubt

whether you get on all fours and pray to the 4 corners of the universe, whether you get up in the morning and davin throughout the day, carry your bible and cross with you everywhere you go, set up shrines and candles, pray to ganesh, buddah, the sun, jesus, hashem, the holy ghost, whether you keep kosher, whether you keep halal....

eventually, your still going to fall back into the earth that you came from

hopefully not at the bloody hands of religion

There's not that many differences between Judaism and Islam. Islam is a spinoff from Judaism.

They both believe in one god, Allah
He has no partners, He is the only One
Only He can grant you salvation.

If you look into history you will learn that the Hebrews killed more people than Muslims did in their early beginnings.

The Koran says, "For he who murders one, murders all the world."

The Talmud however says, "He who saves one life, saves the world."

The Qur'an says whoever saves one life saves the world also.

Ok malcom x...jews dont believe in allah

stop feeding lies into the minds of people
muslims originated out of the hebrews
just as christians originated out of the hebrews

was jesus not jewish?

i cant believe im having such a dry conversation

Interesting Illmatic, can you point out where it says that?

It would also be interesting if the Talmud says "he who murders one murders all the world" as well

talmud never uses the word murder

Originally posted by kitty


Ok malcom x...jews dont believe in allah
__________________________________________________________________________________________

Kitty

I think what Illmatic was saying is that both believe in one G-d.

G-d has many names; Allah, Jehovah, etc.

regards
seekerof

Well, I wouldn't be too hard on the KJV: this is merely using "ignore" in its older, Latin sense -as it is still used in some modern Romance languages -meaning "not to know". Words do change over 4-5 centuries, cyber-chums: they have things called dictionaries to help you check on this.
As for "tribal" warfare: the Pentateuch takes some beating: Amalekites, Moabites, Edomites..blah..yawn..they all get smitten..
I'd have thought the fact that the Muslims believe Muhammad was the last and most important prophet ,and the Jews don't, was about all the difference one needed, really.

kitty, I meant there the same God.

And if you look in a Hebrew Torah.. the name Allah is mentioned many times as Ilah. Allah means The God. Al for the and Ilah for God.

Originally posted by Illmatic67
kitty, I meant there the same God.

And if you look in a Hebrew Torah.. the name Allah is mentioned many times as Ilah. Allah means The God. Al for the and Ilah for God.

According to those who believe in Jesus, not believing he was the son (incarnate) of God on Earth, crucified and arisen, you do follow a different god.
The use of the word god can be attached to anything-a rock can be your "god", but it can't save you.

Originally posted by Illmatic67
There's not that many differences between Judaism and Islam. Islam is a spinoff from Judaism.

They both believe in one god, Allah
He has no partners, He is the only One
Only He can grant you salvation.

If you look into history you will learn that the Hebrews killed more people than Muslims did in their early beginnings.

The Koran says, "For he who murders one, murders all the world."

The Talmud however says, "He who saves one life, saves the world."

The Qur'an says whoever saves one life saves the world also.

Uhh, maybe because muslims weren't around before the 6th century.??

If that is a fact anyways???

I believe Judaism, Islam and Christianity believe in the same Creator.

Concerning the statement that Jews killed more Muslims "in their early beginnings", I first have to assume that Illmatic means in the "Muslim's" early beginnings.

This is due almost ENTIRELY to the fact that the Muslims invaded the Holy Land and the Jewish people defended themselves. The Jews did NOT raid the Arab nations and slaughter Muslims, if that is what you are insinuating.

Muslims were around way before the 6th Century. Abraham was a Muslim.

Be as it may, in the Qur'an- Jews, Muslims, and Christians have their reward with God.

Illmatic

That is a false statement, I guess we will have to look elsewhere for a follower of Islam who is willing to discuss this matter logically.

Thanks.

" The use of the word god can be attached to anything-a rock can be your "god", but it can't save you "

SAVE YOU FROM WHAT ???
what is it that you need to be saved from? yourself?
words in some book wont save you.


[Edited on 6-7-2003 by kitty]

" Be as it may, in the Qur'an- Jews, Muslims, and Christians have their reward with God. "