Independence Day 2018

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

More free than any other country on Earth?

List of countries by incarceration rate. - Wikipedia

Although things such as freedom and bravery are subjective, I'd say the least 'free' of any country on Earth.

Tell me all the other countries that have freedom of religion, freedom of speech, right to bear arms in all the 195 countries that exist. Name EACH country that has all 3 of those?

Does the US have the right to bear arms? I mean, it says so in the constitution but then again, in practice, there's the ATF.

Which brings up the freedom of religion thing. Remember the the siege of the Branch Davidian cult in Waco Texas? Was that an example of constitutional adherence to the principle of freedom of religion? Not to mention it was the ATF that were sent in on the premise that the cultists were 'stockpiling guns' (which surely they had a constitutional right to do).

And free speech... What about the Trump administration ordering the take-down of web pages of the EPA and USDA and implementation of review of any official mention of climate change? Or of Trump's December 2017 banning of the use of certain words by the CDC in its budget proposals? And if the constitution supports unrestricted free speech, why does the government allocate special free speech zones in law (something the ACLU has long fought against).

In truth, all nationalism is a lie.

There is no utopia anywhere.

The US is a police state worse George Orwell's fictional '1984'. "War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, and Ignorance is Strength".

I legally have a gun, no permit, i legally have my faith and i legally have my speech. That is not what i asked you. Stop beating around the bush and give me numbers from what i have asked your shut your brown hole sucker!
Happy 4th of JULY MURICA!!! PEW PEW PEW

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: chr0naut

The Branch Davidian episode was under Clinton.

So, it wasn't America back then?

Democrats don't understand that "freedom of religion" does not mean "freedom FROM religion."

As far as the ATF goes, I'm OK with not owning a nuclear weapon. Doesn't leave much of the elk. Anything else I've ever wanted I own, soOo...

I haven't heard of the ATF preventing nuclear proliferation. Perhaps there is a different ATF?

Freedom of speech, as we are learning today, is only OK if you are liberal. Otherwise it is something to be "weaponized" by anyone not liberal.

We are not in George Orwell's dystopia just yet.

We were headed that way, but Hillary lost.

Now let's see where it goes from here...

Happy 4th to you and your America hating... you are allowed that opinion here!!!

I don't hate America.

I actually think that the constitution and the bill of rights are truly wonderful - the last best hope of a war torn and chaotic world. But if laws can be framed without reference to those documents, they soon become meaningless museum pieces.

The final step in passing any law should be to determine if the law is constitutional and supports the rights of citizens. Unfortunately, such is not the case.

Constitutional reform should be an ongoing, rigorous but very careful process. Unfortunately, such is also not the case.

I wish that the US was properly compliant with its constitution (but I do question the whole "right to bear arms" bit because I don't think it is a legitimate human right) and I wish that it stuck to its Bill of Rights over the goals of commercialism and corporatism.

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: chr0naut

The Branch Davidian episode was under Clinton.

Democrats don't understand that "freedom of religion" does not mean "freedom FROM religion."

As far as the ATF goes, I'm OK with not owning a nuclear weapon. Doesn't leave much of the elk. Anything else I've ever wanted I own, soOo...

Freedom of speech, as we are learning today, is only OK if you are liberal. Otherwise it is something to be "weaponized" by anyone not liberal.

We are not in George Orwell's dystopia just yet.

We were headed that way, but Hillary lost.

Now let's see where it goes from here...

Happy 4th to you and your America hating... you are allowed that opinion here!!!

I think you have that backwards, it's liberals/Democrats who want to destroy the 1st and 2nd Amendment and also, words are only a weapon if said person that feels attacked is allowing them to be a weapon. Think about it, do you honestly care what someone thinks who is mean to you? Do you honestly believe all the hate mongering the media does. If people of this country actually wanted to be self sufficient (as in working to take care of themselves) selfless and have some integrity we would be a far better country in general regardless of your party you claim. As for Hillary, thank god she is not our fearless leader, that B**** would have us in WWIII by now if she were president and half our paychecks taxed. Democrats are ALL about controlling every aspect of your life, BIG government controlling your pockets, your healthcare, your home, your religion, your mouth, your food. Research your history of the Democratic party and look at what has happened to our economy, small businesses, our national defense (military) when any democratic president is in power. Look at how many small businesses go under, look at how much they pervert the constitution. It's all there in history, just like any nation thats tried to enforce socialism, they promise the people with dreams of bulls*** just like Hitler did then BOOM, everything under government control. Anyway, educate yourself or remain ignorant and in your safe bubble away from reality. continue to allow words to damage your psyche I guess.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: chr0naut

The Branch Davidian episode was under Clinton.

So, it wasn't America back then?

Democrats don't understand that "freedom of religion" does not mean "freedom FROM religion."

As far as the ATF goes, I'm OK with not owning a nuclear weapon. Doesn't leave much of the elk. Anything else I've ever wanted I own, soOo...

I haven't heard of the ATF preventing nuclear proliferation. Perhaps there is a different ATF?

Freedom of speech, as we are learning today, is only OK if you are liberal. Otherwise it is something to be "weaponized" by anyone not liberal.

We are not in George Orwell's dystopia just yet.

We were headed that way, but Hillary lost.

Now let's see where it goes from here...

Happy 4th to you and your America hating... you are allowed that opinion here!!!

I don't hate America.

I actually think that the constitution and the bill of rights are truly wonderful - the last best hope of a war torn and chaotic world. But if laws can be framed without reference to those documents, they soon become meaningless museum pieces.

The final step in passing any law should be to determine if the law is constitutional and supports the rights of citizens. Unfortunately, such is not the case.

Constitutional reform should be an ongoing, rigorous but very careful process. Unfortunately, such is also not the case.

I wish that the US was properly compliant with its constitution (but I do question the whole "right to bear arms" bit because I don't think it is a legitimate human right) and I wish that it stuck to its Bill of Rights over the goals of commercialism and corporatism.

There is a great lesson to be learned for "Why" we are allowed to bear arms. The media really makes it out to be a horrible thing, our government does as well, but we dont see them taking their body guards guns away, we dont see nations disarming themselves that ask that of their citizens to. The government asks of its citizens something they wont do themselves is a good reason to NOT disarm yourself. Sure, there will always be killings with guns, there will always be killings with out guns as well and the number of killings with guns is a very small number to most homicides in America. Give your guns away and your giving the government more power.

"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

originally posted by: chr0naut

The final step in passing any law should be to determine if the law is constitutional and supports the rights of citizens. Unfortunately, such is not the case.

^^^^
THIS

1000%

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

More free than any other country on Earth?

List of countries by incarceration rate. - Wikipedia

Although things such as freedom and bravery are subjective, I'd say the least 'free' of any country on Earth.

Tell me all the other countries that have freedom of religion, freedom of speech, right to bear arms in all the 195 countries that exist. Name EACH country that has all 3 of those?

Does the US have the right to bear arms? I mean, it says so in the constitution but then again, in practice, there's the ATF.

Which brings up the freedom of religion thing. Remember the the siege of the Branch Davidian cult in Waco Texas? Was that an example of constitutional adherence to the principle of freedom of religion? Not to mention it was the ATF that were sent in on the premise that the cultists were 'stockpiling guns' (which surely they had a constitutional right to do).

And free speech... What about the Trump administration ordering the take-down of web pages of the EPA and USDA and implementation of review of any official mention of climate change? Or of Trump's December 2017 banning of the use of certain words by the CDC in its budget proposals? And if the constitution supports unrestricted free speech, why does the government allocate special free speech zones in law (something the ACLU has long fought against).

In truth, all nationalism is a lie.

There is no utopia anywhere.

The US is a police state worse George Orwell's fictional '1984'. "War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, and Ignorance is Strength".

I legally have a gun, no permit, i legally have my faith and i legally have my speech. That is not what i asked you. Stop beating around the bush and give me numbers from what i have asked your shut your brown hole sucker!

Happy 4th of JULY MURICA!!! PEW PEW PEW

You probably won't believe me but very few of the countries listed do not have all three of "freedom of religion, freedom of speech, right to bear arms".

Not going to do stacks of work that would be a waste of time because you would ignore it.

But...

Freedom of religion by country - Wikipedi

Freedom of speech by country - Wikipedia

Overview of gun laws by nation - Wikipedia

You sort the facts, the US is nothing special in those regards.

... and last month the US pulled out of the UN Council of Human Rights. Why might that be and what would be the political effect of such a withdrawal of participation?

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: chr0naut

The Branch Davidian episode was under Clinton.

Democrats don't understand that "freedom of religion" does not mean "freedom FROM religion."

As far as the ATF goes, I'm OK with not owning a nuclear weapon. Doesn't leave much of the elk. Anything else I've ever wanted I own, soOo...

Freedom of speech, as we are learning today, is only OK if you are liberal. Otherwise it is something to be "weaponized" by anyone not liberal.

We are not in George Orwell's dystopia just yet.

We were headed that way, but Hillary lost.

Now let's see where it goes from here...

Happy 4th to you and your America hating... you are allowed that opinion here!!!

I think you have that backwards, it's liberals/Democrats who want to destroy the 1st and 2nd Amendment and also, words are only a weapon if said person that feels attacked is allowing them to be a weapon. Think about it, do you honestly care what someone thinks who is mean to you? Do you honestly believe all the hate mongering the media does. If people of this country actually wanted to be self sufficient (as in working to take care of themselves) selfless and have some integrity we would be a far better country in general regardless of your party you claim. As for Hillary, thank god she is not our fearless leader, that B**** would have us in WWIII by now if she were president and half our paychecks taxed. Democrats are ALL about controlling every aspect of your life, BIG government controlling your pockets, your healthcare, your home, your religion, your mouth, your food. Research your history of the Democratic party and look at what has happened to our economy, small businesses, our national defense (military) when any democratic president is in power. Look at how many small businesses go under, look at how much they pervert the constitution. It's all there in history, just like any nation thats tried to enforce socialism, they promise the people with dreams of bulls*** just like Hitler did then BOOM, everything under government control. Anyway, educate yourself or remain ignorant and in your safe bubble away from reality. continue to allow words to damage your psyche I guess.

I think it is invalid to blame Hillarity or the Democrats for America's woes.

America was in a reasonable but gradually worsening position politically and financially prior to Trump and his government has managed to lay the blame on previous government and upon a tiny population (Mexican illegal immigrants). But the problems are systemic and big business based, banks making sub-prime loans and big companies like Exxon ripping off as much as they can grab and bankrupting the country.

Trump's businesses boomed at the same time as all this corruption, despite failure after failure and bankruptcy after bankruptcy. Surely that arouses some suspicion? The money had to come from somewhere.

In Germany pre-Hitler there was a weak and conflicted government (too many special interests politically and no single one able raise enough money to assure supply - sounds familiar? Remember the government shutdowns?). The scapegoat population was Jewish (not Mexican) and all the lead up opposition governments actually set the stage for Hitler's throwing aside limits on the executive position and assuming dictatorship. Just like with Trump isolating America from diplomatic process, purging all opposition from all branches of government, removing checks and restraints on the position of President and concentrating power into the executive branch.

As far as a long term political play, what is the advantage of pulling out of accords, trade deals and diplomatic groups such as the UN Human Rights Council?

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: chr0naut

The Branch Davidian episode was under Clinton.

Democrats don't understand that "freedom of religion" does not mean "freedom FROM religion."

As far as the ATF goes, I'm OK with not owning a nuclear weapon. Doesn't leave much of the elk. Anything else I've ever wanted I own, soOo...

Freedom of speech, as we are learning today, is only OK if you are liberal. Otherwise it is something to be "weaponized" by anyone not liberal.

We are not in George Orwell's dystopia just yet.

We were headed that way, but Hillary lost.

Now let's see where it goes from here...

Happy 4th to you and your America hating... you are allowed that opinion here!!!

I think you have that backwards, it's liberals/Democrats who want to destroy the 1st and 2nd Amendment and also, words are only a weapon if said person that feels attacked is allowing them to be a weapon. Think about it, do you honestly care what someone thinks who is mean to you? Do you honestly believe all the hate mongering the media does. If people of this country actually wanted to be self sufficient (as in working to take care of themselves) selfless and have some integrity we would be a far better country in general regardless of your party you claim. As for Hillary, thank god she is not our fearless leader, that B**** would have us in WWIII by now if she were president and half our paychecks taxed. Democrats are ALL about controlling every aspect of your life, BIG government controlling your pockets, your healthcare, your home, your religion, your mouth, your food. Research your history of the Democratic party and look at what has happened to our economy, small businesses, our national defense (military) when any democratic president is in power. Look at how many small businesses go under, look at how much they pervert the constitution. It's all there in history, just like any nation thats tried to enforce socialism, they promise the people with dreams of bulls*** just like Hitler did then BOOM, everything under government control. Anyway, educate yourself or remain ignorant and in your safe bubble away from reality. continue to allow words to damage your psyche I guess.

Both extreme left wing and extreme right wing governments are authoritarian.

The American government is supposed to be for the people and by the people. Do you honestly think that is happening?

Look at the last Presidential election. No one wanted either candidate? How does that happen? How can you think that the process has not been totally subverted? The choice was not a choice, it was manipulation.

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: chr0naut

The Branch Davidian episode was under Clinton.

So, it wasn't America back then?

Democrats don't understand that "freedom of religion" does not mean "freedom FROM religion."

As far as the ATF goes, I'm OK with not owning a nuclear weapon. Doesn't leave much of the elk. Anything else I've ever wanted I own, soOo...

I haven't heard of the ATF preventing nuclear proliferation. Perhaps there is a different ATF?

Freedom of speech, as we are learning today, is only OK if you are liberal. Otherwise it is something to be "weaponized" by anyone not liberal.

We are not in George Orwell's dystopia just yet.

We were headed that way, but Hillary lost.

Now let's see where it goes from here...

Happy 4th to you and your America hating... you are allowed that opinion here!!!

I don't hate America.

I actually think that the constitution and the bill of rights are truly wonderful - the last best hope of a war torn and chaotic world. But if laws can be framed without reference to those documents, they soon become meaningless museum pieces.

The final step in passing any law should be to determine if the law is constitutional and supports the rights of citizens. Unfortunately, such is not the case.

Constitutional reform should be an ongoing, rigorous but very careful process. Unfortunately, such is also not the case.

I wish that the US was properly compliant with its constitution (but I do question the whole "right to bear arms" bit because I don't think it is a legitimate human right) and I wish that it stuck to its Bill of Rights over the goals of commercialism and corporatism.

There is a great lesson to be learned for "Why" we are allowed to bear arms. The media really makes it out to be a horrible thing, our government does as well, but we dont see them taking their body guards guns away, we dont see nations disarming themselves that ask that of their citizens to. The government asks of its citizens something they wont do themselves is a good reason to NOT disarm yourself. Sure, there will always be killings with guns, there will always be killings with out guns as well and the number of killings with guns is a very small number to most homicides in America. Give your guns away and your giving the government more power.

"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

You seem to be unaware that the right to bear arms also implies a right to be shot at, by both law enforcement, and by other similarly armed citizens, who will all claim 'self defense' because you had a gun.

I don't have a gun, but that is by choice. If I really needed a gun (I do have a farm and have had occasional need for its the use of a firearm), I get my neighbor to bring his gun (as I have done in the past). My neighbor legally has a gun and a license, so it's all cool. I usually share a beer as thanks for their help.

I don't need a gun to defend myself because, where I live, we generally don't shoot people (which is considered very bad manners) or even carry guns around much (I know, weird, eh).

We actually have a fairly high rate of gun ownership here because hunting is a popular local recreational activity,but we don't arm the insane.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: chr0naut

The Branch Davidian episode was under Clinton.

So, it wasn't America back then?

Democrats don't understand that "freedom of religion" does not mean "freedom FROM religion."

As far as the ATF goes, I'm OK with not owning a nuclear weapon. Doesn't leave much of the elk. Anything else I've ever wanted I own, soOo...

I haven't heard of the ATF preventing nuclear proliferation. Perhaps there is a different ATF?

Freedom of speech, as we are learning today, is only OK if you are liberal. Otherwise it is something to be "weaponized" by anyone not liberal.

We are not in George Orwell's dystopia just yet.

We were headed that way, but Hillary lost.

Now let's see where it goes from here...

Happy 4th to you and your America hating... you are allowed that opinion here!!!

I don't hate America.

I actually think that the constitution and the bill of rights are truly wonderful - the last best hope of a war torn and chaotic world. But if laws can be framed without reference to those documents, they soon become meaningless museum pieces.

The final step in passing any law should be to determine if the law is constitutional and supports the rights of citizens. Unfortunately, such is not the case.

Constitutional reform should be an ongoing, rigorous but very careful process. Unfortunately, such is also not the case.

I wish that the US was properly compliant with its constitution (but I do question the whole "right to bear arms" bit because I don't think it is a legitimate human right) and I wish that it stuck to its Bill of Rights over the goals of commercialism and corporatism.

There is a great lesson to be learned for "Why" we are allowed to bear arms. The media really makes it out to be a horrible thing, our government does as well, but we dont see them taking their body guards guns away, we dont see nations disarming themselves that ask that of their citizens to. The government asks of its citizens something they wont do themselves is a good reason to NOT disarm yourself. Sure, there will always be killings with guns, there will always be killings with out guns as well and the number of killings with guns is a very small number to most homicides in America. Give your guns away and your giving the government more power.

"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

You seem to be unaware that the right to bear arms also implies a right to be shot at, by both law enforcement, and by other similarly armed citizens, who will all claim 'self defense' because you had a gun.

I don't have a gun, but that is by choice. If I really needed a gun (I do have a farm and have had occasional need for its the use of a firearm), I get my neighbor to bring his gun (as I have done in the past). My neighbor legally has a gun and a license, so it's all cool. I usually share a beer as thanks for their help.

I don't need a gun to defend myself because, where I live, we generally don't shoot people (which is considered very bad manners) or even carry guns around much (I know, weird, eh).

We actually have a fairly high rate of gun ownership here because hunting is a popular local recreational activity,but we don't arm the insane.

Sure, I believe the two party system is really there to divide the people, those in power dont care, Hitler framed jews for being terrorists, even burned his own house down, mexicans are not comparable to the jews. All presidents do a purge and hire who they want, Obama was firing any general that wouldn't turn on US citizens if he asked them to, why would a president need to do that? Obama deported more illegals then any other president but opened borders for 10's of thousands of muslims but not christians running from the same place. Guns, doesn't matter if they banned guns, people will still kill, cops will still have guns, our leaders will still have body guards with guns and if this government gets too far out of control we wont have the same toys to defend ourselves.

a reply to: xBWOMPx

I'm just curious ...

What're your favorite media sites?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: xBWOMPx

I'm just curious ...

What're your favorite media sites?

None, I dont watch tv. Movies and video games when im in front of a tv. But I dont watch the news. I dont have facebook, no twitter, no social media.

a reply to: xBWOMPx

Tell me all the other countries that have freedom of religion

Are you having a laugh ?

You may not have noticed that Black Churches are and have been burnt to the ground.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: xBWOMPx

Tell me all the other countries that have freedom of religion

Are you having a laugh ?

You may not have noticed that Black Churches are and have been burnt to the ground.

Whats so funny about freedom of religion? Now that I think about it, we only have red, white, and brown stone churches around here...


Or your pulling a race card because religion is a race right? We have plenty of churches where im from black people go to. You do know more christian/catholic churches have been torn down or converted into Mosques thanks to the great immigration of the Obama era all over Europe and many parts of the USA. At the population we have now especially Europe and the rate muslims are having babies, your grand children should be living under Sharia law, or is that ok I guess, either its ok or im a racist lol, oh, these great times we live in...

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: xBWOMPx

Tell me all the other countries that have freedom of religion

Are you having a laugh ?

You may not have noticed that Black Churches are and have been burnt to the ground.

Please, elaborate on this. I did not know there was an epidemic of black churches burning to the ground. Tell me, how many have burned to the ground the last 10 years, where, and what caused said fires

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: xBWOMPx

Tell me all the other countries that have freedom of religion

Are you having a laugh ?

You may not have noticed that Black Churches are and have been burnt to the ground.

Please, elaborate on this. I did not know there was an epidemic of black churches burning to the ground. Tell me, how many have burned to the ground the last 10 years, where, and what caused said fires

I will start you off with this.

www.independent.co.uk...

The rest you can research for yourself.

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: xBWOMPx

Tell me all the other countries that have freedom of religion

Are you having a laugh ?

You may not have noticed that Black Churches are and have been burnt to the ground.

Please, elaborate on this. I did not know there was an epidemic of black churches burning to the ground. Tell me, how many have burned to the ground the last 10 years, where, and what caused said fires

I will start you off with this.

www.independent.co.uk...

The rest you can research for yourself.

Interesting, I was not aware of this, we do not have this problem where im from. Im sure this is not a case of "Black people never did anything wrong and white people are attacking everything black" nonesense. I do not condone to any church being burned down, that should be a sacred place of peace for anyone of all colors and walks of life. A lot of this racist crap got bad during Obama's time and his stupid wife telling people the problem with America was white people, constantly shaming white people, the media wasn't helping with it either, the knock out games, attacking and killing white innocent truck drivers on the interstate just because he was white, blocking the highways. pfft, I was just called a white supremacist because I shave my head. People are bat # crazy and always want to find something wrong. We could go back and forth all day long over who did what more or worse and even go back hundreds of years of BS that we can't do anything about. In reality people need to acquire humility and integrity if we ever want to move forward as Americans. Nobody today is owed anything because of something that happened to a distant relative 150+ years ago and nobody today should have to pay a debt for someone that happened 150+ years ago they were not a part of. It's all stupid and keeping people down eachothers throats, if everybody respected everyone things would be much better but nope, everybody wants to point fingers, be a victim and be angry about something these days, its sad, and people think we are more evolved then we were a 100 years ago.... PFFFFT, but anyway, that is never ok to burn down any kind of church, coming from a christian man myself I do not condone to any acts of violance unless it is to protect yourself or your family.

a reply to: xBWOMPx

I appreciate and understand your sentiment.

I will say this. The United States has the ability to become a great country. However it needs to sort out it's numerous domestic problems first.

I hope you get there.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: xBWOMPx

I appreciate and understand your sentiment.

I will say this. The United States has the ability to become a great country. However it needs to sort out it's numerous domestic problems first.

I hope you get there.

Me too, atleast for my kids sake.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

ETA...I'm probably a bigger patriot than you EVER will be...again, with all due respect.

The only appropriate response to this is: nuh-uh

This place...weird as ever