It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Protester's try to stop ICE from breaking up a child sex trafficking ring
page: 5share:
a reply to: Wardaddy454
Yes. While not impeding enforcement of the crimes which HSI is dutied with enforcing. You know, like trafficking. If the difference were more clear, the enforcement of very serious crimes (like trafficking), instead of misdemeanors, could well be better carried out. Witnesses might not be fearful of coming forward. Protestors might not protest.
Its called "Illegal" Immigration, but many feel it shouldn't be an enforced law. So, they would still do this.
edit on 7/4/2018 by Phage because: (no reason given)
a reply to: TheRedneck
Whereas the people "on the other side" are all mostly well informed and highly intelligent? Let's get real here. 95% of people who are politically engaged at any level in this country, including some who are super passionate about their opinions, aren't fit to participate in anything but the most superficial debate. It doesn't seem to be a great impediment to even getting elected President though.
Hell, the GOP has a tweet up that says, "Democrats’ calls to abolish ICE would mean abolishing America’s borders—"
Well gee, setting aside the asinine hyperbole, that's a tremendously misleading statement considering that border patrol isn't ICE's gig. So you tell me — are they stupid or lying?
And yes, there's a lot of confusion about the precise separation of concerns. That's because there's overlap, there's been a lot of restructuring in the last decade and some processes involve multiple agencies and different folks are ultimately subject to different processes.
People know that ICE does interior enforcement. They know it's ICE that crazed Trump supporters threaten to call when they hear a coffee shop barista talking to a customer in Spanish. They know that it's ICE that GOP legislators have threatened to call on immigration protesters. They know that it's ICE that conducts workplace raids. They know that it's ICE that Trump wants to beef up into a mass deportation force ripping families from their beds in the middle of the night and taking them off to detention facilities where they will in fact be separated.
The single thing that ICE does more than anything else is removal and when Trump determined to grow the size of ICE by 50%, 8,500 of 10,000 new positions were to be ERO (some of those have since been budgeted). Which is in part why 19 SACs, including those heading up offices in 9 of the 10 largest (and 16 of 20) metropolitan areas in the US, want HSI spun off from ICE.
But yes, when it comes to the current controversy over family separations (at the border), people should be aware that it's the CBP that refers parents to the DOJ for illegal entry prosecution, that it's ORR (HHS) that gets the kids and that CBP detains the parents until after their hearings, at which point they go to ICE.
I'll note that ultimately though, the parents end up in the custody of ICE pending other immigration proceedings (like seeking asylum) and removal. And so it's ICE that's primarily responsible for reunification (working with HHS), for detained parents communicating with their children, for fielding reunification related inquiries, etc.
So it's not like ICE is uninvolved.
The issue is that these poor excuses for intelligent life-forms that were protesting
apparently have no idea who is responsible for what when it comes to immigration matters.
have no concept of law enforcement operations.
have nowhere else to be or anything else to do.
are mentally incapable of comprehending the problem they are protesting.
Whereas the people "on the other side" are all mostly well informed and highly intelligent? Let's get real here. 95% of people who are politically engaged at any level in this country, including some who are super passionate about their opinions, aren't fit to participate in anything but the most superficial debate. It doesn't seem to be a great impediment to even getting elected President though.
Hell, the GOP has a tweet up that says, "Democrats’ calls to abolish ICE would mean abolishing America’s borders—"
Well gee, setting aside the asinine hyperbole, that's a tremendously misleading statement considering that border patrol isn't ICE's gig. So you tell me — are they stupid or lying?
And yes, there's a lot of confusion about the precise separation of concerns. That's because there's overlap, there's been a lot of restructuring in the last decade and some processes involve multiple agencies and different folks are ultimately subject to different processes.
People know that ICE does interior enforcement. They know it's ICE that crazed Trump supporters threaten to call when they hear a coffee shop barista talking to a customer in Spanish. They know that it's ICE that GOP legislators have threatened to call on immigration protesters. They know that it's ICE that conducts workplace raids. They know that it's ICE that Trump wants to beef up into a mass deportation force ripping families from their beds in the middle of the night and taking them off to detention facilities where they will in fact be separated.
The single thing that ICE does more than anything else is removal and when Trump determined to grow the size of ICE by 50%, 8,500 of 10,000 new positions were to be ERO (some of those have since been budgeted). Which is in part why 19 SACs, including those heading up offices in 9 of the 10 largest (and 16 of 20) metropolitan areas in the US, want HSI spun off from ICE.
But yes, when it comes to the current controversy over family separations (at the border), people should be aware that it's the CBP that refers parents to the DOJ for illegal entry prosecution, that it's ORR (HHS) that gets the kids and that CBP detains the parents until after their hearings, at which point they go to ICE.
I'll note that ultimately though, the parents end up in the custody of ICE pending other immigration proceedings (like seeking asylum) and removal. And so it's ICE that's primarily responsible for reunification (working with HHS), for detained parents communicating with their children, for fielding reunification related inquiries, etc.
So it's not like ICE is uninvolved.
a reply to: theantediluvian
Let's get real here...what exactly is your rambling, convoluted post, really about? Is it about how bad ICE is, because they are "ripping families from their beds in the middle of the night and taking them off to detention facilities?" Why don't you include the word ILLEGAL LAW BREAKERS in that statement? Boo hoo...families are going to be separated. Maybe they should've thought about that before entering our country illegally. Why can't we just have law enforcement agencies just do their job, without the unneeded harassment? So many justice warriors, carrying their banners, just ready to show the world just how ignorant they are. And speaking of ignorant, who the heck are you, to imply that Trump supporters are all deranged xenophobes, who have ICE on speed dial, in case they hear a person speaking Spanish? We're against people who break the law, by entering our country illegally. If you're an American citizen, you can speak Reptillian for all I care.
Let's get real here...what exactly is your rambling, convoluted post, really about? Is it about how bad ICE is, because they are "ripping families from their beds in the middle of the night and taking them off to detention facilities?" Why don't you include the word ILLEGAL LAW BREAKERS in that statement? Boo hoo...families are going to be separated. Maybe they should've thought about that before entering our country illegally. Why can't we just have law enforcement agencies just do their job, without the unneeded harassment? So many justice warriors, carrying their banners, just ready to show the world just how ignorant they are. And speaking of ignorant, who the heck are you, to imply that Trump supporters are all deranged xenophobes, who have ICE on speed dial, in case they hear a person speaking Spanish? We're against people who break the law, by entering our country illegally. If you're an American citizen, you can speak Reptillian for all I care.
a reply to: shawmanfromny
That's redundant.
Or are there legal law breakers?
Why don't you include the word ILLEGAL LAW BREAKERS in that statement?
That's redundant.
Or are there legal law breakers?
i WOULD like to point out that while willy nilly removal of otherwise law abiding undocumenteds in the US is a problem the human trafficking problem
is real and not being discussed AT ALL by those opposing ICE.
people protesting the separation of children from parents would have a lot more credibility if they admitted that human traffficking was a serious problem. But they dont. You will not find any mainstream articles of late, OR statements made by talking heads about human trafficking. That IS quite telling. Its almost as if they dont want to include it in the conversation because it would actually lend more credibility to our law enforcement on the southern border, including separating children from people who might not actually be their parents.
so...even though i dont agree with the tactic of trying to tie all those who are against ICE as being supportive of human trafficking i have a bigger problem with the fact that at bare minimum the Liberal narrative is seeking to completely avoid it. That is far far worse than almost anything else i can think of because it gives a lie to the idea that they care so much about the kids and families. Im not very convinced that they do given they have completely ignored the human trafficking angle, the rape of up to 80 percent of all females on their way to the border, the obscene criminality that grows up around a porous border, and the TEN THOUSAND unaccompanied minors they refuse to mention instead focusing on the 2,000 that were separated at the border.
if you want to win the narrative you simply must address those other realities. but they wont, because it will ruin their argument against border enforcement, which is really what they are after.
people protesting the separation of children from parents would have a lot more credibility if they admitted that human traffficking was a serious problem. But they dont. You will not find any mainstream articles of late, OR statements made by talking heads about human trafficking. That IS quite telling. Its almost as if they dont want to include it in the conversation because it would actually lend more credibility to our law enforcement on the southern border, including separating children from people who might not actually be their parents.
so...even though i dont agree with the tactic of trying to tie all those who are against ICE as being supportive of human trafficking i have a bigger problem with the fact that at bare minimum the Liberal narrative is seeking to completely avoid it. That is far far worse than almost anything else i can think of because it gives a lie to the idea that they care so much about the kids and families. Im not very convinced that they do given they have completely ignored the human trafficking angle, the rape of up to 80 percent of all females on their way to the border, the obscene criminality that grows up around a porous border, and the TEN THOUSAND unaccompanied minors they refuse to mention instead focusing on the 2,000 that were separated at the border.
if you want to win the narrative you simply must address those other realities. but they wont, because it will ruin their argument against border enforcement, which is really what they are after.
originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: shawmanfromny
Why don't you include the word ILLEGAL LAW BREAKERS in that statement?
That's redundant.
Or are there legal law breakers?
Yes.
People who are citizens break the law.
They are legal law breakers.
But that is not what you meant, is it?
Just more of your schtick...
a reply to: Phage
dude, i said mainstream, not some hole in the wall outlets. You are totally avoiding my central point which is 100 percent correct. No one on the "left" talking about whats happening at the southern border has mentioned human trafficking. I dare you to find even ONE segment anywhere on it. They have purposely refused to include it in the conversation.
and yes, it IS about winning a narrative, if it wasnt why would those protesting children separated from their parents NOT also talk about the TEN THOUSAND children that were already separated before they got to the border or the human trafficking angle?
explain that please.
dude, i said mainstream, not some hole in the wall outlets. You are totally avoiding my central point which is 100 percent correct. No one on the "left" talking about whats happening at the southern border has mentioned human trafficking. I dare you to find even ONE segment anywhere on it. They have purposely refused to include it in the conversation.
and yes, it IS about winning a narrative, if it wasnt why would those protesting children separated from their parents NOT also talk about the TEN THOUSAND children that were already separated before they got to the border or the human trafficking angle?
explain that please.
edit on 4-7-2018 by tribal because: (no reason given)
a reply to: theantediluvian
Ummm... there's another side than "all"? I think your partisanship is showing again...
So your position is that ICE has nothing to do with border security? If that's the case, why are these protestors protesting them for separating families (which is done by CBP)?
You tell me. Although I think protesting outside an ICE raid on human traffickers definitely falls within the former descriptor.
If one is going to protest a problem they see, should they not be more familiar with the problem? As in, familiar enough to offer a reasonable solution? Otherwise, they are no different than a 2-year-old throwing a temper tantrum.
Yes, ICE does more removals than they do investigations... because one investigation can lead to hundreds of removals and they also handle referrals from CBP. I am aware of all this, but of course, I am sitting here in a nice comfortable house typing on an Internet forum instead of out protesting the arrest of human traffickers.
Thank you for proving my point. The life-forms wasting oxygen while protesting the separation of families are calling for the removal of the organization that reunites families.
I will add that I am familiar (thanks to Phage) with the two internal branches of ICE and the fact that some agents have suggested splitting them up. I really have no opinion on this subject, since I feel agents are more familiar with the situation than I, and yet I do not think we need more alphabet agencies. There's only 17,576 possible 3-letter combinations (26^3).
TheRedneck
Whereas the people "on the other side" are all mostly well informed and highly intelligent?
Ummm... there's another side than "all"? I think your partisanship is showing again...
Hell, the GOP has a tweet up that says, "Democrats’ calls to abolish ICE would mean abolishing America’s borders—"
So your position is that ICE has nothing to do with border security? If that's the case, why are these protestors protesting them for separating families (which is done by CBP)?
Well gee, setting aside the asinine hyperbole, that's a tremendously misleading statement considering that border patrol isn't ICE's gig. So you tell me — are they stupid or lying?
You tell me. Although I think protesting outside an ICE raid on human traffickers definitely falls within the former descriptor.
And yes, there's a lot of confusion about the precise separation of concerns. That's because there's overlap, there's been a lot of restructuring in the last decade and some processes involve multiple agencies and different folks are ultimately subject to different processes.
If one is going to protest a problem they see, should they not be more familiar with the problem? As in, familiar enough to offer a reasonable solution? Otherwise, they are no different than a 2-year-old throwing a temper tantrum.
The single thing that ICE does more than anything else is removal and when Trump determined to grow the size of ICE by 50%, 8,500 of 10,000 new positions were to be ERO (some of those have since been budgeted). Which is in part why 19 SACs, including those heading up offices in 9 of the 10 largest (and 16 of 20) metropolitan areas in the US, want HSI spun off from ICE.
Yes, ICE does more removals than they do investigations... because one investigation can lead to hundreds of removals and they also handle referrals from CBP. I am aware of all this, but of course, I am sitting here in a nice comfortable house typing on an Internet forum instead of out protesting the arrest of human traffickers.
I'll note that ultimately though, the parents end up in the custody of ICE pending other immigration proceedings (like seeking asylum) and removal. And so it's ICE that's primarily responsible for reunification (working with HHS), for detained parents communicating with their children, for fielding reunification related inquiries, etc.
So it's not like ICE is uninvolved.
Thank you for proving my point. The life-forms wasting oxygen while protesting the separation of families are calling for the removal of the organization that reunites families.
I will add that I am familiar (thanks to Phage) with the two internal branches of ICE and the fact that some agents have suggested splitting them up. I really have no opinion on this subject, since I feel agents are more familiar with the situation than I, and yet I do not think we need more alphabet agencies. There's only 17,576 possible 3-letter combinations (26^3).
TheRedneck
a reply to: TheRedneck
As I understand it; CBP apprehends, ERO handles it after that. Sending the children hither and thither.
Until Trump issued the EO which he said he couldn't issue, that is.
But it is a mixed up, muddled up, messed up mess. No doubt.
why are these protestors protesting them for separating families (which is done by CBP)?
As I understand it; CBP apprehends, ERO handles it after that. Sending the children hither and thither.
Until Trump issued the EO which he said he couldn't issue, that is.
But it is a mixed up, muddled up, messed up mess. No doubt.
edit on 7/4/2018 by Phage because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Phage
I think antediluvian had that part more accurate: CBP apprehends and handles the asylum detainment until adjudicated; HHS takes control of the children if there are any; ICE (ERO) handles any actual deportation after reuniting parents with children through coordination with HHS.
On that point, we agree completely. Would be simpler with a wall.
TheRedneck
As I understand it; CBP apprehends, ERO handles it after that. Sending the children hither and thither.
I think antediluvian had that part more accurate: CBP apprehends and handles the asylum detainment until adjudicated; HHS takes control of the children if there are any; ICE (ERO) handles any actual deportation after reuniting parents with children through coordination with HHS.
But it is a mixed up, muddled up, messed up mess. No doubt.
On that point, we agree completely. Would be simpler with a wall.
TheRedneck
originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: TheRedneck
The issue is that these poor excuses for intelligent life-forms that were protesting
apparently have no idea who is responsible for what when it comes to immigration matters.
have no concept of law enforcement operations.
have nowhere else to be or anything else to do.
are mentally incapable of comprehending the problem they are protesting.
Whereas the people "on the other side" are all mostly well informed and highly intelligent? Let's get real here. 95% of people who are politically engaged at any level in this country, including some who are super passionate about their opinions, aren't fit to participate in anything but the most superficial debate. It doesn't seem to be a great impediment to even getting elected President though.
Hell, the GOP has a tweet up that says, "Democrats’ calls to abolish ICE would mean abolishing America’s borders—"
Well gee, setting aside the asinine hyperbole, that's a tremendously misleading statement considering that border patrol isn't ICE's gig. So you tell me — are they stupid or lying?
And yes, there's a lot of confusion about the precise separation of concerns. That's because there's overlap, there's been a lot of restructuring in the last decade and some processes involve multiple agencies and different folks are ultimately subject to different processes.
People know that ICE does interior enforcement. They know it's ICE that crazed Trump supporters threaten to call when they hear a coffee shop barista talking to a customer in Spanish. They know that it's ICE that GOP legislators have threatened to call on immigration protesters. They know that it's ICE that conducts workplace raids. They know that it's ICE that Trump wants to beef up into a mass deportation force ripping families from their beds in the middle of the night and taking them off to detention facilities where they will in fact be separated.
The single thing that ICE does more than anything else is removal and when Trump determined to grow the size of ICE by 50%, 8,500 of 10,000 new positions were to be ERO (some of those have since been budgeted). Which is in part why 19 SACs, including those heading up offices in 9 of the 10 largest (and 16 of 20) metropolitan areas in the US, want HSI spun off from ICE.
But yes, when it comes to the current controversy over family separations (at the border), people should be aware that it's the CBP that refers parents to the DOJ for illegal entry prosecution, that it's ORR (HHS) that gets the kids and that CBP detains the parents until after their hearings, at which point they go to ICE.
I'll note that ultimately though, the parents end up in the custody of ICE pending other immigration proceedings (like seeking asylum) and removal. And so it's ICE that's primarily responsible for reunification (working with HHS), for detained parents communicating with their children, for fielding reunification related inquiries, etc.
So it's not like ICE is uninvolved.
Someone please pass the croutons...
a reply to: toysforadults
Talk about propaganda...
I mean do you even believe your own garbage lol?!?!
Literally this is the exact same thing as if I said “I don’t like taxes”..
And you said “taxes pay for the military! You hate the military!!”
No one likes or defends pedophiles.. and pretending otherwise is either stupid, or willfully dishonest.
I shouldn’t be surprised lol..
Talk about propaganda...
I mean do you even believe your own garbage lol?!?!
Literally this is the exact same thing as if I said “I don’t like taxes”..
And you said “taxes pay for the military! You hate the military!!”
No one likes or defends pedophiles.. and pretending otherwise is either stupid, or willfully dishonest.
I shouldn’t be surprised lol..
The news lady has this weird look in her eyes after talking to the protesters at the end of the video. Sort of like she is confused at how stupid the
protestors are for protesting a human trafficking group. These kind of protestors are bad for our freedoms, they should not be protesting something
that is not related to what they are saying. Maybe some there are illegal aliens, after all this is a sex trafficking investigation, there could be
illegal aliens in the house used for the sex trade.
If people protest, they should make sure that their protests are legit or it will convince the masses that all protests are stupid. They are disgracing our rights to peacefully protest with this particular protest.
This is stupider than stupid, some of those people are way worse than the hippies of the sixties. At least most of the sixties hippies knew what they were protesting and it was usually at least related to what was said on their signs.
This bust had little to do with illegal immigration, although some of the people may get deported because of their activity if they are illegals.
If people protest, they should make sure that their protests are legit or it will convince the masses that all protests are stupid. They are disgracing our rights to peacefully protest with this particular protest.
This is stupider than stupid, some of those people are way worse than the hippies of the sixties. At least most of the sixties hippies knew what they were protesting and it was usually at least related to what was said on their signs.
This bust had little to do with illegal immigration, although some of the people may get deported because of their activity if they are illegals.
edit on 4-7-2018 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)
a reply to: toysforadults
The dumbest part of your post is there is a legit argument to be made using the same variables that you just crap all over..
“People shouldn’t be protesting ICE. They do quite a bit of good. Here are some examples of that.”
Is a very reasonable argument.
“Democrats protest ice , so that means democrats like pedophiles”
Is propaganda for stupid people..
Don’t be stupid people., lol
I’m gonna check the source..
It would be truely hilarious if they didn’t really bust a pedo ring and you posted this..
The dumbest part of your post is there is a legit argument to be made using the same variables that you just crap all over..
“People shouldn’t be protesting ICE. They do quite a bit of good. Here are some examples of that.”
Is a very reasonable argument.
“Democrats protest ice , so that means democrats like pedophiles”
Is propaganda for stupid people..
Don’t be stupid people., lol
I’m gonna check the source..
It would be truely hilarious if they didn’t really bust a pedo ring and you posted this..
new topics
-
Incident at Buckingham Palace
Breaking General News: 22 minutes ago -
I stand with Judge Brett Kavanaugh - and why I do not believe her
Political Mud-Pit: 24 minutes ago -
James Woods locked out of his Twitter account for posting a meme.
New World Order: 1 hours ago -
Durham Northern Relief Road Vanity Bridge Project
Social Issues and Civil Unrest: 2 hours ago -
Let's talk about the letter from Blasey Ford
US Political Madness: 2 hours ago -
Tabasco Sauce!
General Chit Chat: 6 hours ago -
Which Super Universe is the Best?
General Chit Chat: 7 hours ago -
The creative force of peace of mind shapes your life.
Philosophy and Metaphysics: 8 hours ago -
Democrats Say - If We Cant Stop Candidate Kavanaugh - We Will Impeach S.C. Justice Kavanaugh.
Political Conspiracies: 11 hours ago -
Would you keep a fox?
Pets: 11 hours ago
top topics
-
All three witnesses Kavanaugh accuser claims were at party deny her account
Political Mud-Pit: 14 hours ago, 56 flags -
Democrats Say - If We Cant Stop Candidate Kavanaugh - We Will Impeach S.C. Justice Kavanaugh.
Political Conspiracies: 11 hours ago, 29 flags -
Democrats -- We Already Know Kavanaugh Is Guilty
Political Mud-Pit: 15 hours ago, 25 flags -
James Woods locked out of his Twitter account for posting a meme.
New World Order: 1 hours ago, 23 flags -
Dozens of Charges Dropped After Deputy Seen on Video Planting Drugs on Innocent People
Posse Comitatus: 13 hours ago, 22 flags -
Let's talk about the letter from Blasey Ford
US Political Madness: 2 hours ago, 18 flags -
Why is anyone taking these ridiculous accusations seriously???
Political Mud-Pit: 16 hours ago, 12 flags -
Weird new antennas at Facebook Campus
Science & Technology: 17 hours ago, 12 flags -
I stand with Judge Brett Kavanaugh - and why I do not believe her
Political Mud-Pit: 24 minutes ago, 9 flags -
Halloween is close. the one holiday i really like
General Chit Chat: 17 hours ago, 9 flags
active topics
-
Incident at Buckingham Palace
Breaking General News • 4 • : IgnoranceIsntBlisss -
James Woods locked out of his Twitter account for posting a meme.
New World Order • 34 • : Wide-Eyes -
All three witnesses Kavanaugh accuser claims were at party deny her account
Political Mud-Pit • 174 • : scraedtosleep -
Kavanaugh accuser wants a full FBI investigation before she testifies
US Political Madness • 1067 • : Majic -
There's the Theory of Evolution and the Interpretation of Evolution
Origins and Creationism • 437 • : Barcs -
Baddogma's Other Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness
General Chit Chat • 2610 • : Reverbs -
I stand with Judge Brett Kavanaugh - and why I do not believe her
Political Mud-Pit • 4 • : JBurns -
TH3WH17ERABB17 -Q- Questions. White House Insider's postings -PART- -12-
Political Conspiracies • 453 • : msfitte -
Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP
Aliens and UFOs • 3784 • : KellyPrettyBear -
Let's talk about the letter from Blasey Ford
US Political Madness • 30 • : xuenchen