Will the UK Gov blame Russia again?

Sky News are reporting that friends of the couple claimed that the critically ill pair found something in the Queen Elizabeth Gardens in Salisbury. The gardens are just a few streets away from the area where the Skripals were found on the bench.

Map link for Queen Elizabeth Gardens, Salisbury

Apparently the couple had a picnic in the Queen Elizabeth Gardens down by the river.

Guardian news article link

Confirmed as Novichok - Breaking press conference from Metropolitan Police.

Surprise, surprise.

BBC and other outlets now reporting it was once again the big scary Russian sounding name: "Novichok"

Yet no one seems to be asking the right questions: why have both these incidents (not attacks, incidents) taken place within close proximity to Porton Down chemical weapons facility?

This is most likely a false flag by the British government (or some rogue faction therein), but could also be an accident due to extreme incompetence.

One thing I know for sure, based on this new development? This isn't a Russian attack, nor was the Skripal exposure. Absolutely fabricated/invented, a planned provocation.

Hope this doesn't impede Trump's peace process with Russia in any way. This is a clear attempt by the UK to divert our strategy of improving relations with the Russians and bringing them into a US-lead alliance. We should work with all nations interested in the pursuit of justice, freedom and most importantly autonomy for all individuals (to include Russia).

Besides, everybody knows the Russians use radioactive polonium - not a nerve gas with a scary sounding Russian name.

I had no doubt it would be "confirmed" as Novichok.

Russia simply isn't going to risk an Article 5 declaration by using chemical weapons in attacks against private individuals.

And if UK authorities don't call for an Article 5 response, it is almost certain they do not take the threat of a chemical weapons attack seriously (probably because they know the narrative is a lie)

We'll see how this goes, but my guess is more smoke & mirrors with a lot of bluster and mudthrowing. The one thing we'll be missing is a shred of actual evidence to back any of it up.

I don't buy the 24/7 Russia-this Russia-that narrative. It is blatant propaganda. If Putin really did have a plan to destabilize the West, the anti-Russia hysteria is playing right into it. Take Trump for example. There is not a shred of evidence demonstrating he did anything unlawful during the 2016 campaign. Has this stopped the "true believer" style accusations against him? Folks speaking as though "collusion" is a foregone conclusion. So many lies and false accusations that Mueller himself had to file a complaint against liberal MSM for peddling outright lies.

What better way to topple a country than to destroy its leadership's credibility? How convenient when 40% of our population willingly go along with these plans by repeating the same worn out and wholly unproven lies. That is what is destabilizing the country. Not this mythical "collusion" nonsense that so many repeat/believe with absolute conviction in a narrative totally devoid of evidence. With talking heads on TV (the same talking heads who bawled and lashed out when Hillary lost) repeating their "alternative" (read: selective) facts ad nauseum until the next week's talking points are properly distributed.

Levying untrue allegations out of a bitter-dis-contempt for populist Republicanism is highly transparent. Allegations made in retaliation to losing a particular election/referendum are equally despicable and transparent. It shows how truly off the rails the left has become since it has lost numerous important elections/referendums over the past few years. They simply are unable to logically cope with the will of the previously-silent-majority.

a reply to: WarPig1939

I can blame Russia for what they do, as much as I'm a sovereign human being they are a sovereign nation. They should hold responsibility for their actions as much as I do.

When the wall fell and then Soviet Russia fell the West tried to engage Russia... Once.upon a time their was talk of bringing Russia into the EU, Russia is a part of Europe after all.

Diplomacy has been tried and still is tried, what do you think sanctions are? It's a diplomatic measure, usually done in agreement amongst nations.

Scratch under the surface and you'll see that nobody wants to invade Russia. We'd rather engage with them but it's somewhat difficult when they actively arrest journalists whilst controlling the narrative shared in it's nation, annex parts of another sovereign nation, create "armies for hire" that have little accountability nor respect for life... I could go on but let's just say Russia is doing a lot of things that are undesirable, these things must be addressed.

The alternative is to just let them get on with it and get away with their actions.

At the same time though, the rest of the world trades with Russia, all of the world.

History means little in regards to how Russia is to be treated. Our condemnation or praise shall be based upon their actions today.

it only because no one wants to play politics with Putin but only place blame and threaten sanctions, military action. 

Russia has threatened it's neighbours with humanitarian crisis in the past. When a nation gets most of it's gas off another and the supplier threatens to stop supplying... What's a nation to do? We've "played politics" with Russia. It's not an isolated rogue nation.

No nation in Europe has threatened Russia. Not in a militaristic fashion.

originally posted by: JBurns
Surprise, surprise.

One thing I know for sure, based on this new development? This isn't a Russian attack, nor was the Skripal exposure. Absolutely fabricated/invented, a planned provocation.

Hope this doesn't impede Trump's peace process with Russia in any way. This is a clear attempt by the UK to divert our strategy of improving relations with the Russians and bringing them into a US-lead alliance. We should work with all nations interested in the pursuit of justice, freedom and most importantly autonomy for all individuals (to include Russia).

Any evidence for that? What UK Russia conflict? London and the UK economy is dependent on Russian money, we're a haven for Russian money turn a blind eye to tens of billions being laundered every year. May and the Conservatives received donations of £820,000 from Russia since being in power.

Polonium was only used in one assassination, others were strangulation, pushing off balcony, shooting four times in the head, poison darts fired from umbrellas in the past - but those were spy for spy killings which go with the territory and we no doubt did the same; the main fuss was when UK citizens/innocent parties were harm.

May announced Russian dodgy money had no place in the UK and would be banned but stopped once she realised she'd made money from it, the government/Party were dependent on it and the economy and national security was dependent on it as it's around £68bn a year extra money circulating in the UK.

It doesn't make any sense for us or intel services to kill/poison their agents/sources of information that have defected from Russia. It is in their interests to point the finger of blame and claim we wouldn't do the same to UK double agents that defected to Russia as it prevents the narrative the UK government and intel services are failing in their duty to provide safe haven and protection to national assets on a rapid scale since 2016ish - if they can't protect them what chances do the public have.

There's been an across the board failure of UK intel services to protect sources that have defected. We grant such people 'safe haven' to stop them being tried/killed in their home country in return for gathering intel from them, it's a bit rich to blame a nation for trying to take out that source but the blame is deflected for a few weeks by government/intel and all UK Russia finance, money, resources, trade remain unchanged.

lolll The UK has asked Russia for moore details about novishok ….while the inventor of the nerve gas is in the USA...
weird…
wat they not try to do to couver up there own mistakes...
a reply to: JBurns

a reply to: bastion

I keep saying about all the dirty Russian money tied up here in property etc, why would Putin risk his own assets?
UK/Russia war is ridiculous, they get a good income from us buying their gas as well. I could see Putin invading Latvia or similar, but attacking the UK, not a chance.
Equally though I wouldn't be surprised by anything higher up the food chain of UK government...a couple of civilian deaths is like meh to people at the top.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Hobson's Choice

Is there any chance that this whole thing is a 'mild psy-op', involving elements within the security services, Porton Down connections, and the government - telling us that their hands are bound, at least in part, over the 'Russia Narrative'..?

"Hobson's Choice" is a very British term for a hypothetical scenario in which, of all choices available, each choice is equally terrible, with absolutely no possibility of any outcome which is not almost equally bad for at least half of those concerned. For example, if closing a factory - losing 100 jobs - will avoid the closure of two factories elsewhere, each with the loss of 50 jobs. In the event of closing the single, 100 job factory, it is equally terrible an outcome, but the bet has been made that the two factories which remain open, may in future come to represent two opportunities to employ more than 100 people at each.

So "Hobson's Choice" is the hard decision with no immediate winner, taken on the gamble that possibly, maybe, at some unknown & unpredictable moment in the future, the choice taken may have turned out to be the best of a bad bunch, who knows, maybe even a good choice. But there are no guarantees, and for the moment at least, almost everyone loses. Because of course, the decision-maker gets it in the neck from the people who lose their jobs, and there's the added political pressure/ bad PR to deal with too. Even the guys who keep their jobs generally feel no sense of satisfaction, because Damocles' sword hangs above them anyway, and their close call with redundancy probably gave them hypertension, or whatever, to boot.

Are 'the good guys' in our own security services letting us know that there is an agenda which they are powerless to affect? Is 'Sam Hobson' actually an affiliate of those good guys, getting the message through to the public, encoding the fact that they are in no position to affect the narrative? Did Sam Hobson disappear straight after giving this quote? And if he reappears, he will doubtless kowtow to the narrative - he may no longer be the same Sam Hobson who gave the media this quote. Heads will roll at the BBC if they happened to be first with this quote, when it is seen that they gave airtime to a non-narrative source. They will have been obligated to run with it if that source first spoke to a non-establishment media group.

a reply to: JBurns


They used polonium once, I believe.

Porton - so the Brits did it but couldn't be arsed to drive very far from Porton? Come on.

The closeness of Porton plays well for Russia cos of all the folk on here that cry "false flag" about just about anything bad that happens.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

All very good points - we dont know enough to hazard a guess.

a reply to: JBurns

Very astute analysis. Well articulated and on the money I suspect.

a reply to: JBurns


Again absolutely no evidence for any of your anti-British ranting as usual.
I hope you've sent your CV to Russia so they can employ you as a propaganda agent and you can get payed for rubbish.

a reply to: Kurokage

Oh, naturally. They pay me 100 Russian dollars for every snarky post I make.

All joking aside, if this was Russia (or any other major power) the "attack" would've been successful and much less obvious. Real-life does not mirror spy novels

There is simply no way any national intelligence service is incompetent enough to use a nerve agent (easily curable) on foreign soil. Any target worth pursuing is worth pursuing properly, which means an assured death - not one with a field-expedient treatment.

Those facts simply don't add up.

More likely, it is a 3rd party planned provocation. It could also be an accident. What it isn't? Any sort of nation-state sanctioned "attack"

Think about it: BREXIT happens, then the Skripals mysteriously come down with "nerve agent poisoning"
President Trump is meeting with President Putin: then suddenly another "attack" happens.

Makes no sense for them to use a Nerve agent with obvious Russian ties, when terrorism is much more common than nation-state sponsored assassinations and Sarin Gas/VX gas is virtually untraceable.

Intelligence agencies aren't keen to leaving a calling card behind.

a reply to: Kurokage

Let me ask you this Kuro, if this is such a serious incident why isn't the UK invoking article 5? Why aren't they preparing for war, since according to them Russia used a weapon of mass destruction against their citizens?

That is an act of war, without any doubt. So why aren't they responding as such? Why are they instead acting like tabloid gossip artists, stoking fear and resentment at a time the US is pursuing closer relations with the Russians?

Makes no sense, like I said.

a reply to: Kurokage

employ you as a propaganda agent and you can get payed for rubbish.

You must've mistaken me with the BBC "reporters" that your security services "screen" prior to employment.

Must be terrible having a government breathing down your neck 24/7. I prefer freedom and liberty, personally. Even when that comes with a little bit of risk/lack of security.

The only thing worse than subjugation is subjugation with the mass-delusion of freedom.

a reply to: JBurns


I have no goverment "breathing" down my neck, I'm under no illusions. Keep up with your propaganda and bad mouthing us Brits, let me know when your Russian masters cut your supposed freedom and liberty.

I don't think there's anything worse than an Amereican bending over and saying thank you for the Russian idea of freedom!!

a reply to: Kurokage

I guess it is settled.

The British government has blamed Russia for the “barbaric and inhumane” use of nerve agent in Salisbury after two members of the public were accidentally exposed.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope


It looks like this is linked to the first case, the couple were known for going through the bins and dumpster diving, so it looks like they inadvertently came across something used to poison the Skipols.