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NYT - Let's Kill The First Amendment. How Conservatives Weaponized the First Amendment

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posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 05:42 PM
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originally posted by: Arizonaguy
a reply to: Gryphon66

I've heard rumors of a time before I came of age. A time that most Americans wanted the same things. Had the same goals for us as a country..for WE THE PEOPLE, they just disagreed upon how to get there. I didn't understand, but maybe I do now.


I'm 52. Within the scope of my lifetime, we yelled and screamed at each other about how to do things and then we came together to get them done. We've lost that knack. I believe we can get it back if we stop letting the idiot-edges speak for all of us.




posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 06:18 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

But that's the point of the 1st. We can either listen or ignore, but that person can talk, right?

When I was in college, Jesse Jackson came to give a lecture. I had to go because it was assigned me by a college prof. So I went, I listened, I didn't agree with much of it, but it didn't hurt me. And now I can say I saw Jesse Jackson speak which is kind of cool. When I was in high school, I also had access to about three different college lecture circuits and our gifted program director would take us to the ones we wanted to see, so I got exposed to lots of different points of view.

I saw controversial opinions on all sides of the spectrum. We went to one lecture where they had to have extra security in the auditorium because the guy was that controversial. I don't think our director expected it to be that hot or she might not have allowed us to go, but it was a good experience for those of us who went.

Nowadays you have college kids who think the way to handle all this is to try to block people from attending or attack them.

The people who attend these things largely do it by choice, and if you don't think you can stand what they say, the best way to handle it is simply not to go or to band together with enough groups and bring in a speaker who presents what you consider to be a counter view later on.
edit on 4-7-2018 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 06:28 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I don't agree with anyone's speech being limited or blocked unless it's inciting to violence.

Some of the college kids are just poorly behaved little #$@%! Trust me, I'm near Emory University in ATL.

However they have a right to speak as well, and even to "civilly disobey."

They pay the price for disrupting the peace, and maybe that teaches them something about what real protest should be.

We also have students on campus pleading for a return to segregation. I'm against that as well. Must be getting old.



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 07:18 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66


They pay the price for disrupting the peace, and maybe that teaches them something about what real protest should be.


Do they though?

If I felt you were right about that, I'd agree. It's one thing to stand outside and wave signs. The odious Phelps clan did that everywhere. Heck, they were at my college graduation doing their stupid thing, but that's all they did and people mostly ignored them.

But this new breed is getting into physical confrontation and disruption on the order of preventing things from happening, and I don't really see them paying a price for it very often. A lot of times, I suspect they get away with it because the administrations of the colleges either silently agree with them or are too afraid of becoming targets themselves to really stand up to them in any meaningful way.



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 07:21 PM
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The First Amendment should be limited in scope. Having a Constitutional right to anything you want to say is crazy.

Hate Speech is the first thing that comes to mind.

Also any speech that is threatening someone or that says stuff that isn't true for the sake of swaying popular opinion should also be banned.



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 07:26 PM
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originally posted by: babybunnies
The First Amendment should be limited in scope. Having a Constitutional right to anything you want to say is crazy.

Hate Speech is the first thing that comes to mind.

Also any speech that is threatening someone or that says stuff that isn't true for the sake of swaying popular opinion should also be banned.


Hate speech is as stupid as Hate crimes! Anyone who pushes for Hate speech laws is not an advocate for FREE speech!

Would you support hate speech if a mob in charge thought your speech and ideas were hateful? Words are harmless.
edit on 4-7-2018 by seeker1963 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 08:53 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: infolurker



Censorship is a tool used by cowards and tyrants.



Yea.. I wish someone would prod Trump on this issue.



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 08:58 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

The "new breed" is the same as the old breed as far as I see.

Young people are always highly strung. Plenty of kids who push over the lines get arrested. Some don't.

I don't think college students scuffling is our biggest issue.



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 09:02 PM
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originally posted by: babybunnies
The First Amendment should be limited in scope. Having a Constitutional right to anything you want to say is crazy.

Hate Speech is the first thing that comes to mind.

Also any speech that is threatening someone or that says stuff that isn't true for the sake of swaying popular opinion should also be banned.


Threats to another person or group is not legal - you can say it, but be prepared to be arrested and investigated. You have the right to yell "fire!" in a crowded theater, but again.. be prepared for the ramifications.

You have to have free speech. Look at the countries that don't have it. That have controlled media. Do you really want that? I think Trump wants that, which is pathetic imo.. I'm stunned more people don't call Trump out for his anti-press comments. But he has put his sheep into a deep trance of Pro Trump fed by lies and bull#.. what can you do. You need free speech.. it's the only way to have some level of transparency behind the government, to actually argue pros and cons of any given situation in the government. Trump would have that killed - it's Trump's agenda.. or no agenda.

What is hilarious is how if you ask Pro Trump folks if it is OK to limit the press, they would say yes.. at least, to any press that has anything negative to say about Trump. BUT.. same folks.. ask them if it's OK to limit the 2nd amendment. Woah!!! Those are fightin' words!!

There are so many hypocritical Trump supporters it seriously boggles the mind.



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 09:45 PM
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originally posted by: fleabit

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: infolurker



Censorship is a tool used by cowards and tyrants.



Yea.. I wish someone would prod Trump on this issue.



Interesting.

Where has Trump, in the capacity of president, censored anyone?


We see it all the time on YouTube, Facebook, Google, Twitter etc. But where has the government censored anyone?

I'd really like to know.



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 10:00 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

It is in the same way that it's an issue when parents let their young children get away with something that, while cute in a very young toddler, becomes far less cute in an older child or adult.

Not only are such behaviors bad behavior no matter at what age they are exhibited, but they need to be curtailed by society for that reason.

So no, you may think that college kids scuffling isn't a big deal, but these are the adults and leaders of tomorrow. You let this behavior and these attitudes get ingrained as proper and appropriate and you have a real issue coming down the road. Not only that but leaders in other countries have used this kind of behavior to effect disasters - look at Mao Zedong's Red Guard.



posted on Jul, 5 2018 @ 02:18 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Yes, these are the adults and leaders of tomorrow, and they will learn to conform and get along in society the same way we all did. They will learn that most idealism is unworkable, that not everyone wins, that not everything is fair and that sometimes you have to work with things the way they are instead of the way you want them to be.

It is in the nature of youth, particularly youth as spoiled as ours are today (which every generation says, LOL) to rebel, to test the limits, to squawk out the most absurd BS ... that's the way it is and the way it will be. We survive.

You're trying to "correct" people in the way you think they should go, and you're hyperbolizing the whole matter to some extent based on political beliefs.

In my opinion.



posted on Jul, 5 2018 @ 04:11 AM
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how about we run a test to see how well getting rid of the first amendment works? by making it a law for a few years that mainstream media, reports nothing but the truth and verifiable facts. no opinions, no commenting on news items. no speculating or guessing what is not a known fact. no news items that are speculation, or accusations, of any possible criminal act, until after a trial has determined the facts. with the only criminal type reporting being strictly limited to the fact of what happened, with possible known and verifiable, pertinent facts about it. no naming of suspects, or pictures of suspects, or information that could lead to a suspect's identity. until AFTER being proven guilty in a court of law. an example would be "someone has accused a suspect of sexual misconduct (or rape, sexual harassment, or whatever), a suspect is being questioned", or "a suspect is being sought for questioning" (no name or picture of suspect). a robbery has taken place, police are searching for a suspect". "so and so has been murdered, a suspect is in custody". or, "an airliner has crashed in a warzone. there is some thought it might have been shot down (yet laying no blame, or opinions about the mater at all). and for things like school shootings, "a shooting has happened at such and such school, the only known suspect at this time, is dead, (no name or picture. and since it can never go to trial, with the suspect being dead, never to be publicised), X number killed, X number injured".


all political reporting must be completely neutral and even. only reporting known facts, and giving verifiable evidence to those facts. no sound bites or partial quotes. the entire speeches and/or statements must be given in full. and when it comes to things like interviews or questions, the entire interview and questioning must be presented in full, with no editing. and definitely no opinions about what has been said at all. just the facts, full and impartial.



posted on Jul, 5 2018 @ 07:46 AM
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a reply to: generik

Fine. Who is going to determine what "the truth" is or, even better, determine where the line between opinion and facts is?

For example: "It's going to be sunny and 75 degrees today with low humidity."

Does "sunny" mean that there will be no clouds in the sky? Is it implied and clear from context that 75 degrees is the high temperature? And what's this "low" word mean ... is that 40% or 28%?

... and that's just one line in a typical weather report.

edit on 5-7-2018 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Jul, 5 2018 @ 07:50 AM
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originally posted by: avgguy
The left wants to turn this country into a dictatorship. No free speech, No 2A, nothing that offends their lot. I consider myself a centrist with more socially liberal views than the avg conservative, but more fiscally conservative views than the avg liberal, but after the last couple of years I really can’t ever see myself supporting another dem, it’s too dangerous for the country.


Most of my family were Democrats. This represents how almost all of them feel right now. There are only a few holdouts hoping the party somehow pulls out of the nosedive. It's not looking promising. They appear to be doubling down on everything that led them to this point.



posted on Jul, 5 2018 @ 08:00 AM
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a reply to: face23785

Your family members who are Democrats want to repeal the First and Second Amendments?

Really? I live in Atlanta and work about 50 miles outside the city. Every day I am exposed to a host of folks with differing political views ... and the most liberal, wacky, Dems I know want to do that.



posted on Jul, 5 2018 @ 09:38 AM
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a reply to: infolurker

The first AMENDMENT only applies to the government stopping speech NOT private citizens stopping each other.


If we want to change that we can always vote and amend the amendment.



posted on Jul, 5 2018 @ 10:17 AM
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I didn't see anywhere in the OP of the NYTs being anti-free speech. Nothing wrong with sharing a few opinions on free speech. Most people know free speech is fundamental to society.



posted on Jul, 5 2018 @ 10:34 AM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Pretty sad seeing so many people falling for the blatant propaganda being used to weaponize both sides of the political divide.



The media is Palpatine and you guys are falling so hard for their bull# on a daily basis. The more you buy into their rhetoric the deeper you sink into the quagmire of hate and darkness. Read almost any thread and see the hate and vitriol being spewed at one side or the other.

You guys are so deep in the quagmire it's sad. Get out while you can.


That's a wonderful sentiment, especially from someone that uses the term "right-wing nutjobs" from time to time.



posted on Jul, 5 2018 @ 12:15 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: face23785

Your family members who are Democrats want to repeal the First and Second Amendments?

Really? I live in Atlanta and work about 50 miles outside the city. Every day I am exposed to a host of folks with differing political views ... and the most liberal, wacky, Dems I know want to do that.



COrrecting a typo older than 4 hrs ...

"The most liberal, wacky Dems I know DON'T want to do that."



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