Trump Ready To SCRAP Obama's Affirmative Action Guidelines

a reply to: Gothmog

Actually, Affirmative Action started in 1961 with JFK. I chose 1966 because it was the first year after both the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Gothmog

Actually, Affirmative Action started in 1961 with JFK. I chose 1966 because it was the first year after both the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

In your opinion Ante ... is "forced integration" still needed in the US?

If so, why?

Also, if so ... if we've been taking this approach for over 50 years ... when do we look for a new one if the issues still exist so prominently?

The argument I've had to endure is that there are those with untapped potential that need a societal shot of ether starting fluid to get the engine to turn over and kick in. "You or I don't know if they are out there or if they are going to respond and become great, productive citizens." My retort is you steal limited opportunity from a high probability success, ensuring their delayed success at best or discouraging them to check out of society altogether, to force feed a proven failure hoping the leopard changes its spots. It was close to a fist fight at that point.

n/m

originally posted by: Annee
n/m

Kind of hard to reply to, but I guess you read your post and really thought it through.

Then had to erase it.

There is hope for you yet!

I see this as a good thing and I hope he makes it illegal to ask about race on all job applications.



Asking about race and gender is how people are able to discriminate.

a reply to: Lumenari

As a minority, I think that if my own government needs to give me a hand up when competing with white people then that law is, by definition, racist.

Because they are treating me different because of my race.

Simplistic enough?

Level the playing field. Period.

Well stated Lumenari

It is my hope we can have a truly equal society, where its Citizens are seen only as fellow Citizens and not by the color of the skin or any other feature. Those things are unique and important, and of course should be celebrated (as I celebrate my own heritage). But at the end of the day, I am an American first and love my fellow Americans

a reply to: ElGoobero

Integrated access doesn't really make a difference when these communities were never really given the opportunity to catch up in the first place. These areas were already lower income with schools that received less funding before integration. Since school funding is tied to an areas wealth and school performance these areas were already playing against a stacked deck.

The point of affirmative action was to eventually get these communities to a level playing field. Like I said previously, it's hardly an optimal solution but it's better than simply abandoning these communities.

originally posted by: tkwasny
The argument I've had to endure is that there are those with untapped potential that need a societal shot of ether starting fluid to get the engine to turn over and kick in. "You or I don't know if they are out there or if they are going to respond and become great, productive citizens." My retort is you steal limited opportunity from a high probability success, ensuring their delayed success at best or discouraging them to check out of society altogether, to force feed a proven failure hoping the leopard changes its spots. It was close to a fist fight at that point.

I am not against that sort of talent search. I am against making that search at the expense of proven commodities.

Basically, the argument is saying that we have to disadvantage kids who are succeeding in order to take a limited number of untried kids in the hopes that we will have a few diamonds in the rough. The odds aren't good you'll find your diamonds, but you know you're knocking down some emeralds or sapphires or other precious stones on your way.

The other problem we have right now is the extreme racializing of everything. There is a concerted push to look at a thing and brand it as racist if there aren't enough POC, and not even people of color, but enough people of the right colors participating. Math is racist because there aren't enough minority students! Logic is racist ... the test is racist ... everything is racist unless the result perfectly mirrors the percentage breakdown of society ...

Frankly it damages serious efforts to address real problems.

a reply to: shawmanfromny

This Country Always Meant Equal Opportunity for All , Only Politicians Decide to Ignore that Reality .,,,,(

a reply to: Xcalibur254

How on earth do kids who learn on mud floors come into this country with better educations than kids coming out of those so-called disadvantaged communities who never experienced that sort of perceived indignity?

Learning doesn't need a bunch of fancy gadgets or rich schools. It simply needs the right attitude.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: ElGoobero

Integrated access doesn't really make a difference when these communities were never really given the opportunity to catch up in the first place. These areas were already lower income with schools that received less funding before integration. Since school funding is tied to an areas wealth and school performance these areas were already playing against a stacked deck.

The point of affirmative action was to eventually get these communities to a level playing field. Like I said previously, it's hardly an optimal solution but it's better than simply abandoning these communities.

I don't think it's possible to have a truly level playing field.

I still blame the democrats that run the cities and schools. I have to believe that after 50 years they could have improved things. by many accounts schools and educations are worse now.

I read somewhere, lots of black kids used to attend HBCUs (Historically Black Colleges / Universities) like Morgan State and North Carolina A&T. they felt more comfortable and had a much lower dropout rate. I wonder how many of them are pressured into attending more high-profile schools that they aren't academically qualified for.

a reply to: ElGoobero

Look, I've spent a few years inside one of those schools. Yes! There are a ton of problems with the way those districts are managed and run. There is a serious brain drain when it comes to teachers there because of the mismanagement, but that isn't the only reason.

The other reason is the lack of parental involvement. Most of the parents there simply don't care or if they do care, they are clueless about what to do. They've lost all control of their children. You have kids raising kids and usually in single parent or all female run multi-generational situations. Sometimes, each sibling has a different daddy and mom's current boyfriend isn't actually related to any of the kids.

Kids come out of chaos in the home and create chaos in the school and classroom. It isn't their fault. They don't know anything else, and it isn't conducive to learning.

There are very few good teachers who can stick it out in that kind of environment.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Cutepants

The main problem is that some communities do not have a recent history of valuing education like others do. Asians live, breathe and die education for the most part. It doesn't matter their socio-economic status, it's a part of their culture to value education. That's why you see so many Asian children excelling.

Whites used to have that cultural emphasis, but we're slipping.

Blacks valued education quite a bit right about the time of the Civil Rights era, but that value has eroded along with their family structure.

The problems go back into the home, so it's more than just providing access to a good school. As has been pointed out in other threads, Africans (real ones from countries like Nigeria) come into this country and kill it. They're hungry and prepared to succeed and also better educated. Some of them did not have anything like what your typical inner city kid spits on as a crap school, too. Some of them learned their basics on mud floors.

It's about your culture and what you value. In order to really help a lot of these kids and rescue them, you are looking at having to restructure parts of society as a whole, not just the schools.

I can agree with this.

Our society has been going down hill since the mid 90's. More focus was on materialistic things, sports, entertainment, not family and education. They are taught idolize athletes, musicians, etc. This has led to a lack of moralities, and this is across all races.

Things have only gotten worse. The schools have not helped either. They do not teach classes or skills that are needed to keep people moving forward in life, or the basics of how life and the world works. For instance social studies vs history and civics, no trade skill classes hardly at all anymore i.e. would shop/auto shop/homeec even. They do not teach actual critical thinking, essentially taught what to think, not HOW to think.

a reply to: Grimmley

I would agree with that too.

It used to be all right to more or less figure out where a kid's talents lay and guide him or her toward those areas. Not every kid should be college bound. Some are more suited for the trades and should be in more vocational coursework than academic classes. No matter how highly technical society gets, it will always need its tradesmen and craftsmen, and those positions are very well paid.

But these days we're being inclusive and busy hammering every square peg into a round hole no matter what, and a lot of our kids are suffering as a result.

Good, scrap it!!!

Wow. This has become a pretty decent thread. Some really nice responses.

In any event,

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Xcalibur254

If the money follows the student (vs. the school) public schools would have incentive to be more competitive and would also provide the funding required for students wishing to attend schools traditionally outside their economic scope

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: M5xaz

The one area we can improve on is the ridiculous number of black adult males imprisoned for non-violent drug offenses. Trump's current consideration of de-scheduling Marijuana will vastly reduce the money wasted on incarcerating non-violent drug offenders (for that particular substance) and have the net result of putting more black adult men back in the home with their families.

We would see true generational changes and give black Americans the needed familial structures to succeed.

All that 100%.

But I would also say, when you read a link like this one ( Juvenile Court Fees Punish Children for Their Families’ Poverty ) you realize the system really is stacked against certain groups. We screw 'em up young. And when you consider the internet is forever, you have what effectively becomes an economic life sentence.

In the analog past (really just a few short years ago), second chances were truly possible and stupid mistakes could stay quietly in the past. Today, whatever you do in childhood potentially stays with you forever in a way that has never been true before.

All of that has to be fixed too.

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

originally posted by: elementalgrove

originally posted by: shawmanfromny
a reply to: elementalgrove

Well the inner city schools suck in my city, along with many of the teachers. In addition, attendance at these schools, is abysmal. If parents don't care about their kid's future, why should the kid?

It is absolutely atrocious what are educational system has devolved into.

Sorry EG. Couldn't help myself.

originally posted by: ErrorErrorError
Had Obama invented cure for cancer Trump would scrap it and American rednecks would think it's about fighting "globuuuhhliissts".

As an American Redneck of Hispanic origin, I find this statement highly offensive and you deserve to be followed around by screeching triggered sheep. I find your statement to be more ludicrous than the idea of Trump University.